Another Clean-Out Plug Thread

[Cambo]

Has anyone else taken apart the clean out plug and noticed how loose the six screws are on the plastic ring that holds down the rubber part of the clean out ? This O ring would make perfect sense because if the screws are loose it would put more upward pressure on the rubber part to seal it better. I did install the o rings and put some Zero pool and spa o ring lubricant now that they should be bone dry it wont wash the lube off. Beginning of every season I would take a scotch brite pad and reach in the man hole and scrub the aluminum notches that the plug twists into this would knock down any oxidation build up and allow them to rotate with minimal friction. Now even with the o ring its very easy to remove and install.

 

[jacoviii]

Also on the O-Ring side of things I believe the black ones to be of to high of a durometer (Hardness). Durometer 65 is the softest black one you can find.

I recommend this one. It is 55 durometer silicone

McMaster-Carr

McMaster-Carr is the complete source for your plant with over 595,000 products. 98% of products ordered ship from stock and deliver same or next day.

www.mcmaster.com

 

[jacoviii]

I only had 2 small diameter springs with white caps that are the detent for lock / unlocked.

 

[drewkaree]

Has anyone else taken apart the clean out plug and noticed how loose the six screws are on the plastic ring that holds down the rubber part of the clean out ? This O ring would make perfect sense because if the screws are loose it would put more upward pressure on the rubber part to seal it better. I did install the o rings and put some Zero pool and spa o ring lubricant now that they should be bone dry it wont wash the lube off. Beginning of every season I would take a scotch brite pad and reach in the man hole and scrub the aluminum notches that the plug twists into this would knock down any oxidation build up and allow them to rotate with minimal friction. Now even with the o ring its very easy to remove and install.

The screws being loose has not been my experience, but this might explain why they include the lower part of the plugs in the rebuild kits, for just such a reason.

@FSH 210 Sport , remind me to get you the pool lube I have. At the very least, we can solve the world's problems while we talk about it!

Also on the O-Ring side of things I believe the black ones to be of to high of a durometer (Hardness). Durometer 65 is the softest black one you can find.

I recommend this one. It is 55 durometer silicone

McMaster-Carr

McMaster-Carr is the complete source for your plant with over 595,000 products. 98% of products ordered ship from stock and deliver same or next day.

www.mcmaster.com

Cc: @sastocky might be useful for your project, as I know you were referencing the durometer.

Should be able to get your package out this week, last weekend was quite chaotic

 

[FSH 210 Sport]

The screws being loose has not been my experience, but this might explain why they include the lower part of the plugs in the rebuild kits, for just such a reason.

@FSH 210 Sport , remind me to get you the pool lube I have. At the very least, we can solve the world's problems while we talk about it!



Cc: @sastocky might be useful for your project, as I know you were referencing the durometer.

Should be able to get your package out this week, last weekend was quite chaotic

Checked mine again yesterday after the bash still dry as a desert bone in the clean out wells. After running the O rings I got from @Spooky pantz for a while now the effort required to put the plugs in and take them out has decreased but is still more than without the O rings.

I still have my leading edge high altitude impellers tuned in and performance was very sporty for 748’ here in WI, 8000+ rpm in the cooler part of the day with plenty of reserve power in the turns, just a tick under 8000 late in the day. They’ll cavitate if I get too aggressive with the throttles but won’t break free in tight corners. A bit underpropped for here but they’ll do just fine, nice to have the extra power at lower elevation.

 

[sastocky]

Has anyone else taken apart the clean out plug and noticed how loose the six screws are on the plastic ring that holds down the rubber part of the clean out ? This O ring would make perfect sense because if the screws are loose it would put more upward pressure on the rubber part to seal it better. I did install the o rings and put some Zero pool and spa o ring lubricant now that they should be bone dry it wont wash the lube off. Beginning of every season I would take a scotch brite pad and reach in the man hole and scrub the aluminum notches that the plug twists into this would knock down any oxidation build up and allow them to rotate with minimal friction. Now even with the o ring its very easy to remove and install.

I took mine apart yesterday for the first time. I do not believe that they have ever been disassembled since the boat left the factory.

Two missing screws and all of the crews were loose.

 

[sastocky]

Should be able to get your package out this week, last weekend was quite chaotic

All good. I tested my first 3d TPU printed part. No strings. Printed perfectly the first time. It was a pretty simple part.

I am drawing the new repair plug gasket with integrated o-ring this morning and will be testing printing soon. Like I mention in my post….

3D Printed Cleanout Plug Repair Gasket - with integrated O-Ring​

I am not sure that the first material I have is soft enough but it will be a good prototype.

 

[XLR8ED]

I went with the Mr. O-Ring, 350, Viton, 90A Durometer, 4-5/8" ID, 5" OD, 3/16" Width, Black and have had zero water in the manhole since.

I lubricate periodically with Haynes Lubri-Film Plus O-Ring Lubricant.

 

[anmut]

Did you replace the existing spring, or did you not even have a spring in your cleanout plug? There's one in there, but in thinking about it, I've never considered it as a potential issue.

It seemed like it was in there to allow some friction for the "SET" tab. I can honestly say I didn't think it had anything to do with the rubber skirt and the seal.

Looking forward to hearing your results on your ideas

*edit* the rubber skirts will not drain back out once water is in there for my boat - unsure of your setup. Water WILL drain when the boat rests overnight, but only down to the waterline, which is about an inch above the plugs for me.

While underway, no suction occurs, since the water is being forced past the seals. This is why the O-rings have been a success, as no water enters in the first place.

For me, at least on my starboard side, it's a godsend. Port side, I'm still dealing with intrusion, but I will be trying a 3D printed ring vs an o-ring, which will allow different heights.

If that works, I'll explain my theory at that point, and provide the STL files and possibly print some for others to test. It's a dead simple print, get the correct dimensions for the inside and outside diameters, and dial in the correct height, and/or spit out multiple heights.

The O-rings are a perfect solution for many, and a perfect starting point for those like myself, where it's just a frog's hair too much (or not enough), to solve one of the final puzzle pieces to get a dry bilge

That's really weird you say that about your port side cleanout ports...

We did a LOT of boating Friday-Sunday, with a variety of long cruising and water sports. Each time my boat came out of the water this weekend (3x total) I had water in the port side cleanout again. I double checked the o-ring and it's still there. Starboard side is always dry.

Saturday I even re-greased everything on both ports and still had water in the tube on port side.

So new o-rings and rebuilt cleanouts worked 100% for a while on both side for a while. Now port is back to filling itself with water.

I was thinking, port side motor is always slipping 200-400 RPM under the starboard. I'm in manual throttle mode most of the time unless someone's behind the boat or surfing. I can slip the throttles to be closer with a little monkeying around, but sometimes it's just like "whatever, we're almost there."

I wonder, could the "drag" from one engine running slightly slower somehow create more pressure? I'm thinking "no" but still, there's something off on the port side manhole...

 

[TeeNGee]

That's really weird you say that about your port side cleanout ports...

We did a LOT of boating Friday-Sunday, with a variety of long cruising and water sports. Each time my boat came out of the water this weekend (3x total) I had water in the port side cleanout again. I double checked the o-ring and it's still there. Starboard side is always dry.

Saturday I even re-greased everything on both ports and still had water in the tube on port side.

So new o-rings and rebuilt cleanouts worked 100% for a while on both side for a while. Now port is back to filling itself with water.

I was thinking, port side motor is always slipping 200-400 RPM under the starboard. I'm in manual throttle mode most of the time unless someone's behind the boat or surfing. I can slip the throttles to be closer with a little monkeying around, but sometimes it's just like "whatever, we're almost there."

I wonder, could the "drag" from one engine running slightly slower somehow create more pressure? I'm thinking "no" but still, there's something off on the port side manhole...

Where is your clean-out tray drain?

 

[anmut]

Where is your clean-out tray drain?

In probably the stupidest place, rear starboard side of the tray. Also one of the highest points of the tray when you include the drain tube fitting.

Someday I'd like to figure out to how to put two additional drains in that area, one in the front center, which is the lowest point of the train, and one in the same spot but on port side. But seems like a real PITA to do.

 

[jacoviii]

Don't forget everyone. When you drop the the throttles at speed the forward motion rams water into the pickup tunnel. This will push the cap up and fill it up. That is not a problem. Race jetboat have a bypass to let that water pressure past. The issue really is if the cap doesn't seal 110% while accelerating you are introducing the error into the jet pump. I would fill said dry one with water. Then accelerating hard monitor the water height to see if that side is sucking it down.

 

[tdonoughue]

Update: The o-rings discussed don't work on the old-style, non-twist plugs.

I bought some from @Spooky pantz (knew the gamble; no regrets). Here are some pics without it and with it in the little slot. Looked promising...


However, the ring is too wide to really sit in the slot. And with it there, it raises the plug too much for the dogs to catch, so it won't lock. That said, as you might be able to see from the one pic, there *is* a little slot there. I am thinking an o-ring about 1/2 the width might work. Did not have the micrometer and clay to accurately measure the size with me on this trip, so that will be a future thing.

End of report.

 

[TeeNGee]

Post #90 has a pdf of o-ring sizes.
It is several pages long so you might need to scroll to find the size you need.

 

[Troch1]

Just another data point, put in the 5 inch o-rings from Amazon. For the FIRST time in the 7 years I’ve owned my boat, ZERO water past the clean out plugs. I’m amazed. Thanks for this suggestion!!

 

[Cambo]

I think this was part of the problem why they were leaking they were loose. I left my plugs in for a few days and just pulled them I can see the new engagement point of the o ring. Now as the plug seats in the rubber gets compressed slightly inward to a conical shape and does not go into the slot that was obviously not designed so great for sealing.

I took mine apart yesterday for the first time. I do not believe that they have ever been disassembled since the boat left the factory.

Two missing screws and all of the crews were loose.

 

[johhnyboat]

Update: The o-rings discussed don't work on the old-style, non-twist plugs.

I bought some from @Spooky pantz (knew the gamble; no regrets). Here are some pics without it and with it in the little slot. Looked promising...
View attachment 238209View attachment 238210

However, the ring is too wide to really sit in the slot. And with it there, it raises the plug too much for the dogs to catch, so it won't lock. That said, as you might be able to see from the one pic, there *is* a little slot there. I am thinking an o-ring about 1/2 the width might work. Did not have the micrometer and clay to accurately measure the size with me on this trip, so that will be a future thing.

End of report.

Let us know if you find a size that works. I have tried everything and still have water on the plugs.

 

[FSH 210 Sport]

A few hundred miles and quite a few hours later still totally dry..

 

[FSH 210 Sport]

So courtesy of @TeeNGee here are some screen shots of the pdf list of O rings.

This is the one that fits the late model boats.


The CS is the cross section of the O rings itself, the ID is 4.6, and the OD is 5.020.

So for those wanting a thinner cross section to allow the older style push lock plugs to work you have a few choices. While the measurements are not precisely in terms of ID and OD but they’d probably work, the following O rings have a thinner cross section. You’re just going to have to buy a few of the different sizes and see which one will work.

 

[Cambo]

Installed these o rings in my 2017

Line Product Ordered​ Shipped​ Balance​ Price​ Total​ 1 9452K408 Oil-Resistant Buna-N O-Ring, 3/16 Fractional Width, Dash Number 350, Packs of 5 1 Pack​ 1​ 0​ 7.75 Per Pack​ 7.75​

The port side that had the plug taken apart and screws tightened was dry. The starboard side had about 1'' of water on top of the plug, when I was home it was taken apart and screws tightened maybe this will keep it dry ?

Cant wait to get back out and test but looking at the design it would make sense that these loose screws would allow water in