Coronavirus

[Rockfords Fosgate]

Lastly, I wish we would stop focusing on deaths so much. I think I've also said this before. But recovery from COVID does not look like recovery from flu, or any other viral PNA. It is long, hard, debilitating. And complications post COVID are not only for those who had serious disease. I've seen my fair of young healthy people who only had some sniffles and shortness of breath end up with lung scarring (no way to fix this) or heart issues.

We should also discuss the early use of Remdesivir, which came with a 25% rate of serious adverse events and its own long-term effects.

 

[GTBRMC]

Follow up on healthcare treatments affected by COVID-19 and/or associated lockdowns, some general reference reading for those interested, found in a few minutes of poking around with minimal Google-foo:

Cancer, heart surgeries delayed as coronavirus alters care

Some cancer surgeries are being delayed, many stent procedures for clogged arteries have been pushed back and infertility specialists were asked to postpone helping patients get pregnant...

apnews.com

https://www.annalsofoncology.org/article/S0923-7534(20)39825-2/fulltext

Survey Suggests COVID-19 Pandemic Led to Delays in Care for Nearly Half of Breast Cancer Survivors

The early weeks of the COVID-19 pandemic caused 44% of breast cancer survivors to have a delay in care, according to an online survey.

www.breastcancer.org

Treatment delays in oncology patients during COVID-19 pandemic: A perspective

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanonc/article/PIIS1470-2045(20)30388-0/fulltext

Covid-19: Pandemic Causing Deadly Delays in Cancer Diagnosis - Physician's Weekly

Studies highlight potential harms from lockdown-related delays There is growing evidence that the Covid-19 pandemic is leading to significant delays in the diagnosis of cancer across the globe, which could result in thousands of potentially avoidable deaths from the disease. Recently published...

www.physiciansweekly.com

For Cancer Patients, Anguish Grows Over Deferred Surgery As Risk Rises

With states starting to reopen, bans on "nonessential" surgeries are beginning to lift, too. But there's a huge backlog of cases that have only gotten more urgent and heartbreaking for many patients.

www.npr.org

Obviously, there is much, much more out there but I did not find much of the type of macro information I was hoping to find. Also, there is a fair bit of info about suicide rates and the like but I chose not to include any of that. Also, I did not attempt to validate sources other than a quick "smell test" and I quite intentionally avoided anything with an obvious political agenda.

 

[AZMark]

I dont think he was saying all prodedures were cut. Hosptal's #1 money maker is ELECTIVE surgery (highest margin). That is what was stopped a lot....and that is what has caused so much disruption in healthcare staffing.

I guess I was maybe confusing posts.

My comments were meant to address the excess deaths from non-COVID conditions directly caused by lockdowns. My point is there were deaths, but not as many as there would have been (COVID and non-COVID) if we let the virus run rampant. Same with suicides and mental health issues, yes they are up, but is that really a reason to have done no lockdowns? No.

 

[Evil Sports]

Im so tired of hearing on TV how this is Trumps fault and how Joe Biden has a plan. Looking at 3 different countries you can see the same curve of cases, so close its almost hard to believe. No one has control of this virus and surely Joe Biden wont either when the rest of the world doesn't.

 

[I_squared_r]

Im so tired of hearing on TV how this is Trumps fault and how Joe Biden has a plan. Looking at 3 different countries you can see the same curve of cases, so close its almost hard to believe. No one has control of this virus and surely Joe Biden wont either when the rest of the world doesn't.
View attachment 136207

I agree. If he has the magic bullet to end this virus, then why is he holding us hostage with it? It's because there isn't a policy that's going to end this.

 

[tabbibus]

He doesn't have a magic bullet. No one has. But it will be refreshing to see leadership that encourages us to follow real scientific advice. This pandemic won't end with a policy. It will end when we eventually have safe and effective vaccines. But in the meantime, it is up to us not to huddle like maskless cattle.

The current POTUS not only does not encourage his followers to use masks and social distance, but also actively encourages people to disregard safety practices and continues to downplay the pandemic, even attacking front line healthcare workers. So yeah, blame does fall on his shoulders.

 

[Rockfords Fosgate]

I don't want a POTUS that sees leadership as simply following 'real scientific advice'. As the WHO and CDC have shown, many of them are nothing but politicians in white gowns. The POTUS has to weigh all available factors, with health-science/epidemiological concerns being just one of them. Economic resiliency, national security, and personal freedoms are some factors that I believe should have equal weighting to health concerns.

I also don't need want a heavy handed federal government, attempting to override local decisions at the state level.

The Presidential task force explicitly called for social distancing - March 16 guidance. And then again on April 20th with the Phased Reopening Guidance.

 

[Julian]

No Partisan Political references please. Thank you.

Code of Conduct

 

[I_squared_r]

How are other states doing through this? Here in New York, I have witnessed very strange behavior from people. Everyone is at different extremes for how comfortable they are in public. Some people are careless while others are looking for anything to make a scene. It's difficult to navigate through everyone's personal preference so I avoid restaurants/bars. I've been to like 5 restaurants/bars since March. On Sunday I met some friends at a quiet bar, all young people in their 20's, and not many masks. I walk in with my mask, see my friend, and take off my mask. I turn around to grab a chair and momentarily had my mask off. I received a lot of angry comments from some young guys sitting at a table 6ft away. "hey hey heyyyy maskkkk". Its my opinion that they were overreacting. I didn't apologize, I just sat down and didn't say anything to them. I can't wait for this shit to be over...

EDIT: and another time I was 4ft from an older guy at Ace hardware. We were both wearing masks. He started yelling and jumping that I am too close he's yelling things like "are you ****ing crazy??" and the entire time I was trying to calm him down "hey hey calm down.. breath. you're ok" I guess some people can't manage their stress/fear

 

[tabbibus]

That is something I can agree. I can't wait for this shit to be over. I personally don't do indoor anything. I keep it outdoors.

Also, how's that Jekyll of yours? Mountain biking has been my happy place in this pandemic (when not boating)

 

[I_squared_r]

That is something I can agree. I can't wait for this shit to be over. I personally don't do indoor anything. I keep it outdoors.

Also, how's that Jekyll of yours? Mountain biking has been my happy place in this pandemic (when not boating)

I haven't been biking a lot. I was boating on summer weekends and now the weather has cooled, i've been working like crazy. I'm going to brazil on christmas day and I will do some mountain biking there. Whats the spots by lake lanier? My sister used to live there and now she's in greer, sc.

 

[tabbibus]

Charleston park has a nice trail that has some very pretty lake views. Brazil biking sounds fantastic.

 

[I_squared_r]

Charleston park has a nice trail that has some very pretty lake views. Brazil biking sounds fantastic.

Yeah I want to find monkeys there in brazil lol
I want to find time to visit my sister down there in Greer and find some off roading trails and bike. Maybe i'll find my way near there and we can ride.

 

[BigN8]

He doesn't have a magic bullet. No one has. But it will be refreshing to see leadership that encourages us to follow real scientific advice. This pandemic won't end with a policy. It will end when we eventually have safe and effective vaccines. But in the meantime, it is up to us not to huddle like maskless cattle.

The current POTUS not only does not encourage his followers to use masks and social distance, but also actively encourages people to disregard safety practices and continues to downplay the pandemic, even attacking front line healthcare workers. So yeah, blame does fall on his shoulders.

I have a lot of friends and ex-Navy buddies that I stay in touch with. With the Navy group we have an ongoing text chain that is active everyday. It's funny the trend is the same across all avenues. Regardless of political affiliation, it seems those friends of mine that have careers dependent on the economy are all for keeping the businesses open and roll the dice with a more open approach to the pandemic. Basically against any kind of lockdown. The argument being there are 2 options, lockdown or no lockdown and they both are a shitty option, but the non lockdown option is better. Those at risk need to take precautions to avoid the public and those that are healthy go about your lives as normal as can be. With a lock down, people lose jobs, drink too much, social depression, suicide, etc. etc.

Then there are those "we need to lock this thing down" friends. And the irony is all of those people have jobs unaffected by the economy. They either work for the government still at a Navy base or shipyard, they hold municipal jobs either in public works or at some Nuclear Power Plant, or they work in healthcare. They have the luxury of saying, hell yeah, lock this thing down. They know they will have a steady stream of income regardless.

My point is, this is a no win situation. It sucks on all fronts. I feel sorry for any politician that has to make any of these decisions.

Edit: I also feel sorry for the next head coach of the Dallas Cowboys, because that is also a no win situation.....poor bastard.

 

[tabbibus]

I have a lot of friends and ex-Navy buddies that I stay in touch with. With the Navy group we have an ongoing text chain that is active everyday. It's funny the trend is the same across all avenues. Regardless of political affiliation, it seems those friends of mine that have careers dependent on the economy are all for keeping the businesses open and roll the dice with a more open approach to the pandemic. Basically against any kind of lockdown. The argument being there are 2 options, lockdown or no lockdown and they both are a shitty option, but the non lockdown option is better. Those at risk need to take precautions to avoid the public and those that are healthy go about your lives as normal as can be. With a lock down, people lose jobs, drink too much, social depression, suicide, etc. etc.

Then there are those "we need to lock this thing down" friends. And the irony is all of those people have jobs unaffected by the economy. They either work for the government still at a Navy base or shipyard, they hold municipal jobs either in public works or at some Nuclear Power Plant, or they work in healthcare. They have the luxury of saying, hell yeah, lock this thing down. They know they will have a steady stream of income regardless.

My point is, this is a no win situation. It sucks on all fronts. I feel sorry for any politician that has to make any of these decisions.

Edit: I also feel sorry for the next head coach of the Dallas Cowboys, because that is also a no win situation.....poor bastard.

I do not advocate for a lock down. Nor do I personally know any colleagues who advocate for one. The fallacy in that argument is that it is either all open or all closed. It is not. Far from it. I want stuff open, I want our economy to thrive. But we can not pretend that we are not in a pandemic. There is such a thing as a happy medium. Please also note that many healthcare workers have seen wages slashed or even lost jobs due to the pandemic. The story that HCW are making bank from COVID is very inaccurate.

 

[I_squared_r]

I don't like the idea that some politician in the capital thinks he knows best for a community that he's never visited, or even point out on a map. So he's going to lockdown businesses that are already struggling and ruin their livelihood. Things are very different than where we were in April and we learned a lot about how to fight the virus. I advocate for communities to take action based on what works for their community. And this applies for all legislations and thats why we have state and federal governments. The president nor mayor of a state should have power to lockdown a small community based on whatever they think is right for someone else.

My opinion is based on my experience during the pandemic. The mayor of my state said "ok we will lockdown and wait to flatten the curve" and I agreed with it because things were looking really bad. But then we flattened the curve for months and the lockdowns continued far longer than they should've.

 

[BeauSko]

How are other states doing through this? Here in New York, I have witnessed very strange behavior from people. Everyone is at different extremes for how comfortable they are in public. Some people are careless while others are looking for anything to make a scene. It's difficult to navigate through everyone's personal preference so I avoid restaurants/bars. I've been to like 5 restaurants/bars since March. On Sunday I met some friends at a quiet bar, all young people in their 20's, and not many masks. I walk in with my mask, see my friend, and take off my mask. I turn around to grab a chair and momentarily had my mask off. I received a lot of angry comments from some young guys sitting at a table 6ft away. "hey hey heyyyy maskkkk". Its my opinion that they were overreacting. I didn't apologize, I just sat down and didn't say anything to them. I can't wait for this shit to be over...

EDIT: and another time I was 4ft from an older guy at Ace hardware. We were both wearing masks. He started yelling and jumping that I am too close he's yelling things like "are you ****ing crazy??" and the entire time I was trying to calm him down "hey hey calm down.. breath. you're ok" I guess some people can't manage their stress/fear

What I think is ridiculous (referencing the table of young guys) is that people think they have this thought/feeling that they have some sort of authority over anyone else. Everyone has their own opinion on the matter...no one should try to force their’s on anyone else’s.

 

[I_squared_r]

What I think is ridiculous (referencing the table of young guys) is that people think they have this thought/feeling that they have some sort of authority over anyone else. Everyone has their own opinion on the matter...no one should try to force their’s on anyone else’s.

Exactly. I am all for wearing masks and social distancing. But there are people that go into public and try to enforce their ridiculous level of safety on everyone else. If a person needs to yell at everyone who skirts corona rules, then they should just stay home. No one is forcing them to go to a high risk area like a bar lol

 

[Rockfords Fosgate]

What I think is ridiculous (referencing the table of young guys) is that people think they have this thought/feeling that they have some sort of authority over anyone else. Everyone has their own opinion on the matter...no one should try to force their’s on anyone else’s.

This is a very serious problem these days. While it is a sense of authority, it is also a sense of entitlement. It's the I'm Right, You're Wrong, Bend the Knee perspective. They feel entitled to control your speech, control your access to information, control your ability to work, control your ability travel, control what you can buy, control when you can buy it. See a pattern here? I wonder what Samuel Adams would think about all of this.

 

[Julian]

This virus doesn't care what state we live in - so I disagree that we need a different approach in different states. I do agree that different population areas require different approaches. Cities with high density housing and public transport like NYC, Chicago, Atlanta etc require a different approach than Raleigh.

Clear and concise centralized guidance from the top are absolutely necessary. Leadership by example is critical. People emulate and mimic the behavior of their leaders (I've seen this over and over in the companies I work in! If you have a boss that swears, all of a sudden, everyone is swearing).

We've known for over a hundred years how to slow the spread of viruses like this, but we don't learn. Even during the 1918-19 flu pandemic people didn't want to wear masks.....and paid the price. Now we are doing the exact same thing! And we are seeing waves exactly like they did back then. In 1918 they learned, followed directions more, the flu was knocked down, then along came New Years Eve and everyone was stir crazy, decided it was safe, and partied in the new year......and another wave followed.