CoVID-19 / SARS-CoV-2 Information and Questions

[Julian]

What information or data did this post bring to this discussion? I noticed that you like to ridicule or demean people and was just wondering what feeling of inadequacy a person must have to consistently post drivel like this. You ridicule an entire bunch of people and then get all butthurt when your profession is questioned about blatant profiteering going on in prescribing of a drug that clearly has no use in the treatment of covid. The post above was insulting and it doesn’t seem to bother you. Maybe do unto others as you would like done to yourself would be appropriate in this case. By the way I never said anything about you in particular and was just generalizing the same way as you in the post above. The only difference is I am not butthurt. Don’t expect people to have the warm and fuzzies after you do your ridicule thing.

I think the reason he gets upset about the generalizations made in many posts are identical to the generalizations being made regarding law enforcement. Sure there are some seriously bad cops, but they are the exceptions. Are there some stupid doctors prescribing stuff that doesn't work because they've not kept up with the studies....yup. To generalize that a siginificant percentage of doctors are that stupid ..... is like saying....most doctors are stupid.

Or are you saying a significant percentage of doctor are criminals? I'd love to read about how any doctor is getting around anti kick back regulations to profit from it. That would make good 60 Minutes material and result in some serious jail time. But likewise results in the same reaction from Doctors.....do you really think a significant percentage of doctors are criminals?

 

[crazy4life]

Seems like you are excellent at putting words in other peoples mouth. Either that or you are a mind reader and seriously lacking in mind reader skills.

Never said “To generalize that a siginificant percentage of doctors are that stupid”

Never said “Or are you saying a significant percentage of doctor are criminals?

How bout I say words and you don’t twist them into pretzels to fit your own narrative.

I am pretty sure that “He” can speak for himself.

Since you think you know what other people are thinking what did this post mean.

Nah man. Go away with those main stream studies. Dr watchamacalit told me on the YouTubes that it works. Sooooooo......

 

[Julian]

Seems like you are excellent at putting words in other peoples mouth. Either that or you are a mind reader and seriously lacking in mind reader skills.

Never said “To generalize that a siginificant percentage of doctors are that stupid”

Never said “Or are you saying a significant percentage of doctor are criminals?

How bout I say words and you don’t twist them into pretzels to fit your own narrative.

I am pretty sure that “He” can speak for himself.

Since you think you know what other people are thinking what did this post mean.

Sure he can speak for himself. I can also speak for myself and give you MY opinion. I didn't intend to twist your words, rather I simply provided you the feedback of how your words MIGHT have been taken. I know I took them that way - and I know the doctors I work with on a daily basis also feel that many people seem to think this way, at least the ones that they interact with.

Your article was interesting, and certainly should make us all wonder why Remdesivir is even a topic of discussion if its been clearly shown to be ineffective. Much like hydroxychloroquine - plenty of well done (double blind clinical trials) that show its not effective, YET it remains a topic of discussion for so many.....why? I posit that it is because the social media "pundits" are forcing it into the lime light, and PERHAPS there is a very real financial element to this. If you have enough followers and push a particular narrative, you can make money from the buying (or selling) you trigger. All the big financial pundits have this ability, and I'm sure they laugh all the way to the bank! The impact of social media is fascinating - but also alarming.

 

[crazy4life]

Sure he can speak for himself. I can also speak for myself and give you MY opinion. I didn't intend to twist your words, rather I simply provided you the feedback of how your words MIGHT have been taken. I know I took them that way - and I know the doctors I work with on a daily basis also feel that many people seem to think this way, at least the ones that they interact with.

Your article was interesting, and certainly should make us all wonder why Remdesivir is even a topic of discussion if its been clearly shown to be ineffective. Much like hydroxychloroquine - plenty of well done (double blind clinical trials) that show its not effective, YET it remains a topic of discussion for so many.....why? I posit that it is because the social media "pundits" are forcing it into the lime light, and PERHAPS there is a very real financial element to this. If you have enough followers and push a particular narrative, you can make money from the buying (or selling) you trigger. All the big financial pundits have this ability, and I'm sure they laugh all the way to the bank! The impact of social media is fascinating - but also alarming.

This chart may provide some insight to your question. Try to explain to me why the drugs circled in red are the ONLY drugs with an EUA for covid. Oh wait I think I figured it out on my own. $$$$$$$$$

 

[Julian]

This chart may provide some insight to your question. Try to explain to me why the drugs circled in red are the ONLY drugs with an EUA for covid. Oh wait I think I figured it out on my own. $$$$$$$$$

View attachment 174711

Doesn't really get to any answers at all. All is does is show a list of drugs that have an EUA for treating Covid. I'd be more curious to understand the process for the elimination of an EUA. Perhaps @Jim_in_Delaware can shed some light on when a drug like Remdesivir would get it's EUA removed and what the process is? I'm guessing they are slow to do that as they want enough time to ensure there are no benefits to any cohorts? I've never looked into how the removal process works.....have you?

 

[crazy4life]

Doesn't really get to any answers at all. All is does is show a list of drugs that have an EUA for treating Covid. I'd be more curious to understand the process for the elimination of an EUA. Perhaps @Jim_in_Delaware can shed some light on when a drug like Remdesivir would get it's EUA removed and what the process is? I'm guessing they are slow to do that as they want enough time to ensure there are no benefits to any cohorts? I've never looked into how the removal process works.....have you?

If the chart above doesn't provide you with any answers I am not sure I or anyone else can. Maybe the red circles did not show up on your chart. There is a legal term called willful blindness and I think it certainly applies in this case. (In simplistic terms it means you don't believe something even when it is staring you right in the face.) You are not sure how the process works to remove a EUA for Remdesivir when FFS the FDA just approved it 2 months ago for outpatient use even though it clearly is less efficacious then Hydroxychloroquine. Let me help you with the reason. 2700 dollars per treatment. Last year and this year it will provide Gilliad with 7 BILLION dollars 7 BILLION dollars 7 BILLION dollars. In a prior post you blamed this travesty on politicians. Politicians don't make it, they don't prescribe it and they don't approve it.

"All is does is show a list of drugs that have an EUA for treating Covid." Must have missed the part of the chart that showed what the Pharmaceutical Industry is gouging the taxpayers of this country for these drugs that were developed using taxpayer dollars and are being paid for with taxpayer dollars. Maybe that's the part that doesn't bother you because it costs you nothing on a personal level. It cost Merck roughly 20 dollars per treatment coarse for Molnupiravir but they charge the government 700 dollars. When I try to get a veteran drug addict placed in a rehab facility the government does not have the money. They seem to have it for the Merck's and the Hospitals for bogus treatments and not for the men who served their country with honor.

""I'm guessing they are slow to do that as they want enough time to ensure there are no benefits to any cohorts?"" Wow is the only thing I can say to that statement.

On a side note we are clearly mucking up a thread for covid info so I will believe what I chose to believe and you can chose what you want to believe and the world will still turn.

 

[Julian]

Wow is the only thing I can say to that statement.

You'd also probably complain when a drug you think works gets their EUA revoked because it flat out doesn't work based on clinical trials. No win situation with many people. I'd prefer to actually understand the processes used to determine if there is indeed something nefarious going on, rather than infer from a simple chart that companies are ripping people off. I can't deduce that from your chart.....but of course you can.

 

[AZMark]

Were those prices that high before covid & EUA or as a result of?

 

[crazy4life]

Were those prices that high before covid & EUA or as a result of?

Those prices were negotiated (what a laughable term that is) between the drug manufacturer’s and the government before 1 pill or IV was produced.
This was also after the gov’t gave them billions for R&D.

 

[Julian]

Those prices were negotiated (what a laughable term that is) between the drug manufacturer’s and the government before 1 pill or IV was produced.
This was also after the gov’t gave them billions for R&D.

We can agree on that.....the US is moronic when it comes to drug pricing!!!

In 2019 (the latest year with internationally comparable data from the OECD), the U.S. spent $1,126 per capita on prescribed medicines, while comparable countries spent $552 on average. This includes spending from insurers and out-of-pocket costs from patients for prescription drugs filled at the pharmacy.

All because of the pharma lobby, and how elections are bought.

 

[tabbibus]

The vast majority of physicians will advocate for cheaper drugs. The vast majority of us will prescribe a drug not because it costs more, but because we believe it will work. As an example, the one drug most of us will agree that works for inpatient COVID is dexamethasone. And it's dirt cheap. Many of those drugs circled in red are not used because we don't think there is good data to show they work.

 

[crazy4life]

The vast majority of physicians will advocate for cheaper drugs. The vast majority of us will prescribe a drug not because it costs more, but because we believe it will work. As an example, the one drug most of us will agree that works for inpatient COVID is dexamethasone. And it's dirt cheap. Many of those drugs circled in red are not used because we don't think there is good data to show they work.

Maybe the four Doctors you know are not prescribing these medicines, but a whole boatload of other Doctors don't share your concern. The drugs circled in red are bringing in billions in sales no matter what you say, (which doesn't seem to be based in reality.) All this information is readily available to you if you would care to look. Stating facts that are not based in reality does not make a good argument. The sales of these treatments translates into millions of dose's.

Four drug makers raked in $14 billion in sales of COVID-19 treatments in 2021. This does not include vaccine sales. 2022 sales of these drugs not being used are projected to be over 30 billion dollars. Please keep in mind that these are US sales only forecasts.

Four drug makers raked in $14 billion in sales of COVID-19 treatments in 2021. How will they do this year?

The lucrative, new market could be tempered in 2022.

www.marketwatch.com

Pzizer alone is projecting 22 billion in sales in 2022 for Paxlovid.

Pfizer forecasts $100B in sales, fueled by COVID-19 vaccine, pill

The company estimated revenue from its COVID-19 vaccine and new antiviral pill Paxlovid will total $54 billion this year.

www.healthcaredive.com

Giliad is projecting 2 billion in sales for remdesivir in 2022. This drug does nothing for covid,

Gilead Sciences Announces Fourth Quarter and Full Year 2021 Financial Results

Gilead Sciences Announces Fourth Quarter and Full Year 2021 Financial Results

www.gilead.com

Merck projects 5 billion in sales for Molnupiravir even though I have seen some studies showing efficacy as low as 35%.

Merck projects at least $5B in 2022 sales for molnupiravir - Drug Discovery and Development

Merck’s investigational oral COVID-19 drug could net between $5 billion and $7 billion in revenue through the end of 2022.

www.drugdiscoverytrends.com

I could post the sales of these other drugs but that would just be rubbing it in. I will leave that up to you.

Maybe I will just post this and just revel in the irony.
Tabbius once said to me
"Tell me you have no idea what you are talking about without telling me you have no idea what you are talking about"

Carry on

PS going to bed now, but we can continue fact based posts tomorrow. If you just want to ridicule and demean please be warned that your post will be removed and you will be warned by the moderators.......... Oh wait never mind.

 

[Farny]

Is there still a pandemic going on?

 

[Julian]

Maybe the four Doctors you know are not prescribing these medicines, but a whole boatload of other Doctors don't share your concern. The drugs circled in red are bringing in billions in sales no matter what you say, (which doesn't seem to be based in reality.) All this information is readily available to you if you would care to look. Stating facts that are not based in reality does not make a good argument. The sales of these treatments translates into millions of dose's.

Four drug makers raked in $14 billion in sales of COVID-19 treatments in 2021. This does not include vaccine sales. 2022 sales of these drugs not being used are projected to be over 30 billion dollars. Please keep in mind that these are US sales only forecasts.

Four drug makers raked in $14 billion in sales of COVID-19 treatments in 2021. How will they do this year?

The lucrative, new market could be tempered in 2022.

www.marketwatch.com

Pzizer alone is projecting 22 billion in sales in 2022 for Paxlovid.

Pfizer forecasts $100B in sales, fueled by COVID-19 vaccine, pill

The company estimated revenue from its COVID-19 vaccine and new antiviral pill Paxlovid will total $54 billion this year.

www.healthcaredive.com

Giliad is projecting 2 billion in sales for remdesivir in 2022. This drug does nothing for covid,

Gilead Sciences Announces Fourth Quarter and Full Year 2021 Financial Results

Gilead Sciences Announces Fourth Quarter and Full Year 2021 Financial Results

www.gilead.com

Merck projects 5 billion in sales for Molnupiravir even though I have seen some studies showing efficacy as low as 35%.

Merck projects at least $5B in 2022 sales for molnupiravir - Drug Discovery and Development

Merck’s investigational oral COVID-19 drug could net between $5 billion and $7 billion in revenue through the end of 2022.

www.drugdiscoverytrends.com

I could post the sales of these other drugs but that would just be rubbing it in. I will leave that up to you.

Maybe I will just post this and just revel in the irony.
Tabbius once said to me
"Tell me you have no idea what you are talking about without telling me you have no idea what you are talking about"

Carry on

PS going to bed now, but we can continue fact based posts tomorrow. If you just want to ridicule and demean please be warned that your post will be removed and you will be warned by the moderators.......... Oh wait never mind.

All I can say is hilarious. @tabbibus gives you facts about what his hospital and doctors are doing and you say is "stating facts that are not based in reality"....when there couldn't better FACTS on the internet than those given by the actual DOCTOR! Lol

Just because Doctors say a drug doesn't work, doesn't prevent millions of morons from being determined it does work and getting their hands on it. That's been proven without a shadow of a doubt during this pandemic!

When faced with a ventilator and death because one refused a highly effective vaccine pushes one to try EVERY available option regardless of how low the efficacy is.

Lets hope the really low risks with the current variant continue and hospitalizations remain at or near zero. Then these companies won't make much money off their snake oil.

 

[crazy4life]

Many of those drugs circled in red are not used because we don't think there is good data to show they work.

 

[Farny]

Those prices were negotiated (what a laughable term that is) between the drug manufacturer’s and the government before 1 pill or IV was produced.
This was also after the gov’t gave them billions for R&D.

Amazes me how our tax dollars are given to the drug mfg companies- yet they receive 109% of the profit…. In my humble opinion, our govt officials should not be able to trade in these companies. Whether the drugs work or not is besides the point. I think the real problem is the conflicts of interest and lack of liability. A free for all at the taxpayers expense.

 

[Julian]

@crazy4life
And you assumed the "we" in his statement meant he was talking for hospitals and doctors across the nation verses his hospital?
I think you've complained about that recently....

 

[crazy4life]

I thought vast majority of doctors meant vast majority of doctors. I thought many meant many. There must be some other meaning to them words that I’m not aware of. I will get the old webster’s out and search for the meaning of the word vast and many. Thanks for the clarification.

 

[Julian]

I thought vast majority of doctors meant vast majority of doctors. I thought many meant many. There must be some other meaning to them words that I’m not aware of. I will get the old webster’s out and search for the meaning of the word vast and many. Thanks for the clarification.

He made it very clear at the start that he's posting about his experience at his hospital.

That said....company projections for 2022 are just that....projections. Last year's numbers were high because it looked promising....so they sold a bunch....then after ACTUAL use doctors realized it doesn't do much. Tabbibus is in a larger hospital in a major metro area, so they get to have enough volume to come to conclusions faster than small rural hospitals with far lower census counts. Those rural hospitals are often CAHs (critical access hospitals), where they are massively understaffed and it wouldn't surprise me if they are slower to catch up on study reading.

 

[crazy4life]

Amazes me how our tax dollars are given to the drug mfg companies- yet they receive 109% of the profit…. In my humble opinion, our govt officials should not be able to trade in these companies. Whether the drugs work or not is besides the point. I think the real problem is the conflicts of interest and lack of liability. A free for all at the taxpayers expense.

try and find some rehab facilities or detox centers for some of the millions of drug addicts in this country. The government has no money for these treatment centers but they got billions to give to pharmaceutical companies and doctors that created the drug addicts by giving out oxy cotton like candy. Our veterans are committing suicide in numbers never seen in history. We have lost a large portion of our youth to the scourge.


This is where I spend some of my free time. Just imagine a 14 year old girl asking to suck your d**k for five dollars so that she could buy some heroin to feed her next high. She tore her ACL playing soccer and the doctor gave her 80 oxy cottons for her pain after he gave her two or three more scripts. Then he cut her off because of the scrutiny it would bring him and now she has to turn to heroin to feed her high. Meanwhile the Sackler family who owned Purdue Pharma gets to walk away with $10 billion dollars where is the justice.