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CoVID-19 / SARS-CoV-2 Information and Questions

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Bruce

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@GTBRMC, I am curious what conclusions you reached from watching these videos?

For me, there are some places that I go unmasked. An airplane certainly is too densely populated for me to consider doing so. But I can not miss a day of caring for (carrying) my son while others may have greater ability to be sick.
 

GTBRMC

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@GTBRMC, I am curious what conclusions you reached from watching these videos?

For me, there are some places that I go unmasked. An airplane certainly is too densely populated for me to consider doing so. But I can not miss a day of caring for (carrying) my son while others may have greater ability to be sick.
I work in manufacturing and have had no choice but to be out and engaged with our sizable workforce for the big majority of the pandemic. Of course, travel and outsider (customer and supplier, executives from other company sites, etc.) contact has been severely limited for the majority of the time. My company has generally followed CDC guidelines but did not mandate vaccinations. We highly encouraged it including multiple on-site vax clinics. Restrictions have tightened and relaxed and tightened again as the waves washed over my area.

I have flown a couple of times because it was necessary - and wore KN95 masks when those were the best option (albeit difficult to get at the time + I thoroughly enjoyed the impressive case of contact dermatitis/rash I picked up around my ears from the masks’ mystery material ear loops) and N95 masks since they have become available again. Also, I, personally, have a number of high risk factors.

I have a couple of takeaways. For the big majority of us, people should take reasonable precautions that they can control - including actively supporting immune system health through nutrition, sound sleep and exercise habits, fitness and BMI management, staying home when they are ill and encouraging others to do same, and keeping up with the latest info available as data on and knowledge of COVID is increasing every week. Clearly, the severely at-risk should do everything possible to avoid exposure. None of the above is new, of course.

Specifically, the MEDCRAM masks on planes info reinforces to me that I should continue to wear an N95 when flying commercially. Protection from casual exposure to the COVID virus provided by a properly worn, certified, N95 mask is VERY, VERY STRONG. Generally, I do not wear masks of any kind unless required by a venue as the risk to me from fleeting contact is low and there are real risks to me from breathing through impossible-to-truly-keep-clean masks (I am severely asthmatic + I am violently allergic to various molds that might - or might not - enjoy the humid and dubiously ‘clean’ environment inside all-day-worn masks.) Also, constantly avoiding all possible germs is NOT supportive of good immune health.

Regarding Campbell’s discussion focusing on some of the growing data showing the virus has become endemic, I don’t know that it changes my general approach very much. The math suggests I have almost certainly been exposed to the virus, and very likely more than once. Dozens and dozens of people in my workplace have had symptomatic COVID, especially during the Delta and Omicron waves last fall and this winter. Further, my wife - to whom I was 100% certainly exposed at very close proximity, for hours, indoors - had antigen test and PCR test confirmed COVID in January. While her sample was not individually typed, her health care org indicated it was almost certainly Omicron. I did not get COVID, not even a sniffle, nor did our teenaged daughter who also was clearly exposed (but less than I was).

Regarding the bigger question that Campbell’s video begs - what changes now that it appears we have moved to endemic state? Look at how the landscape has changed since early 2020:
  • We now have approx 60% of US population (going from memory), that probably some level of immunity from at least two doses of the “safe and effective” vaccines
  • We now have 80% with some level of “natural immunity” (? this is a guesstimate for USA population extrapolated from Campbell’s UK data and US’ relatively lower vax uptake and higher cases per capita throughout most of the last two years)
  • We now have easy access to N95 and KN95 masks
  • We now have easy access to in-home antigen and to many locations with drive-through PCR tests
  • We now have “safe and effective” antivirals specifically targeted to this virus
  • We now have advanced treatment protocols with tens of millions of clinical usage data points - what “works,” what doesn’t, what are the limits and risks, etc. One example: dexamethasone or Decadron (brand name) was specifically avoided early on but later proved to be quite “useful”
  • CDC guidelines (county by county maps across the US) abruptly changed severity definitions approx March 1, indicating a change in strategy toward endemic management from the containment approach that dominated efforts the prior 24 months
My opinion: We need to move away from mandates that were installed when none of the above was true. Our public health relies on a holistic approach, we need to return to a more rational approach to drive overall health - including mental health - and not be so singularly focused on COVID moving forward.

Note: items in quotation marks above are highlighted to acknowledge possibly controversial nature that seem to drive arguments, not agreeing nor disagreeing with those statements
 

Julian

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I work in manufacturing and have had no choice but to be out and engaged with our sizable workforce for the big majority of the pandemic. Of course, travel and outsider (customer and supplier, executives from other company sites, etc.) contact has been severely limited for the majority of the time. My company has generally followed CDC guidelines but did not mandate vaccinations. We highly encouraged it including multiple on-site vax clinics. Restrictions have tightened and relaxed and tightened again as the waves washed over my area.

I have flown a couple of times because it was necessary - and wore KN95 masks when those were the best option (albeit difficult to get at the time + I thoroughly enjoyed the impressive case of contact dermatitis/rash I picked up around my ears from the masks’ mystery material ear loops) and N95 masks since they have become available again. Also, I, personally, have a number of high risk factors.

I have a couple of takeaways. For the big majority of us, people should take reasonable precautions that they can control - including actively supporting immune system health through nutrition, sound sleep and exercise habits, fitness and BMI management, staying home when they are ill and encouraging others to do same, and keeping up with the latest info available as data on and knowledge of COVID is increasing every week. Clearly, the severely at-risk should do everything possible to avoid exposure. None of the above is new, of course.

Specifically, the MEDCRAM masks on planes info reinforces to me that I should continue to wear an N95 when flying commercially. Protection from casual exposure to the COVID virus provided by a properly worn, certified, N95 mask is VERY, VERY STRONG. Generally, I do not wear masks of any kind unless required by a venue as the risk to me from fleeting contact is low and there are real risks to me from breathing through impossible-to-truly-keep-clean masks (I am severely asthmatic + I am violently allergic to various molds that might - or might not - enjoy the humid and dubiously ‘clean’ environment inside all-day-worn masks.) Also, constantly avoiding all possible germs is NOT supportive of good immune health.

Regarding Campbell’s discussion focusing on some of the growing data showing the virus has become endemic, I don’t know that it changes my general approach very much. The math suggests I have almost certainly been exposed to the virus, and very likely more than once. Dozens and dozens of people in my workplace have had symptomatic COVID, especially during the Delta and Omicron waves last fall and this winter. Further, my wife - to whom I was 100% certainly exposed at very close proximity, for hours, indoors - had antigen test and PCR test confirmed COVID in January. While her sample was not individually typed, her health care org indicated it was almost certainly Omicron. I did not get COVID, not even a sniffle, nor did our teenaged daughter who also was clearly exposed (but less than I was).

Regarding the bigger question that Campbell’s video begs - what changes now that it appears we have moved to endemic state? Look at how the landscape has changed since early 2020:
  • We now have approx 60% of US population (going from memory), that probably some level of immunity from at least two doses of the “safe and effective” vaccines
  • We now have 80% with some level of “natural immunity” (? this is a guesstimate for USA population extrapolated from Campbell’s UK data and US’ relatively lower vax uptake and higher cases per capita throughout most of the last two years)
  • We now have easy access to N95 and KN95 masks
  • We now have easy access to in-home antigen and to many locations with drive-through PCR tests
  • We now have “safe and effective” antivirals specifically targeted to this virus
  • We now have advanced treatment protocols with tens of millions of clinical usage data points - what “works,” what doesn’t, what are the limits and risks, etc. One example: dexamethasone or Decadron (brand name) was specifically avoided early on but later proved to be quite “useful”
  • CDC guidelines (county by county maps across the US) abruptly changed severity definitions approx March 1, indicating a change in strategy toward endemic management from the containment approach that dominated efforts the prior 24 months
My opinion: We need to move away from mandates that were installed when none of the above was true. Our public health relies on a holistic approach, we need to return to a more rational approach to drive overall health - including mental health - and not be so singularly focused on COVID moving forward.

Note: items in quotation marks above are highlighted to acknowledge possibly controversial nature that seem to drive arguments, not agreeing nor disagreeing with those statements
I agree with the bulk of your perspective. The only area I wonder about is mass transit mask mandates. You say you are likely going to keep wearing on a plane....me too. My reason....it will reduce my risk. If EVERYONE were wearing, it would further reduce my risk.

The flip side.....covid has become more like the flu in severity (especially for vaccinated people)...so do we need to worry as much? Hard to say yet. But rushing to a conclusion because of wanting to appease anti mask rhetoric isn't the right answer. But unfortunately that is our political situation now. Sad that masks became a political flash point used by politicians....really sad.
 

Bruce

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Interesting article on some of the things that did not work. Just skip the subscription pop up.

 

Can0n11

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On a positive note concerning aircraft travel, the air you breathe on an aircraft is some of the most filtered and fresh air you will breathe in your travels. The ECS systems use bleed air(or customer service air) to provide conditioned air that passes through PAC's which have HEPA filters that filter 99.97% particulates and mix with fresh air to turn all of the air over every 3-5 minutes. Aircraft designers aren't doing this out of the kindness of their hearts in consideration of your health-they have to use compressed air to pressurize the aircraft as you climb and maintain altitude as its 2.7psi at 40k ft. compared to 14.7psi on the ground. I have elected not to board early anymore but even so usually your aircraft have ground units that operate the ESC systems on the ground for fresh air. Didnt know this-if you are flying on an Airbus, window seat has the freshest air, and to my dismay the middle seat on your Boeing aircraft in your 3x3 configs has the cleanest air. Go figure. Hotels, restaurants, subways other areas of concern. Definitely wear a mask to your comfort level though.
Just a few articles:


Safe travels :)
 

tabbibus

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Pre pandemic I almost always caught some viral illness after flying. In a couple of weeks I'll do my first post 2020 flight and I'm happy masks are a thing now. I'll wear mine and hope to not catch crud this time around.
 

Julian

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Pre pandemic I almost always caught some viral illness after flying. In a couple of weeks I'll do my first post 2020 flight and I'm happy masks are a thing now. I'll wear mine and hope to not catch crud this time around.
Me too and I fly (or used to) a LOT!

I think the "theory" of that circulating air is great, but by circulating all that air, you are causing it to flow over all the people in the plane.
Interesting points about where the air flows....you want to be sitting next to the outflow from the system not the inflow....but not always possible or preferable.
I'll still wear a mask as the people density is still super high!
 

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My wife just flew to Ohio from Vt. Was supposed to be a total of about 3 hours. Sunday morning, first flight of the day, go figure, the plane had a Maintenance issue, a light that did not work. 3 hours later they take off in another plane. Rebooked, fly to a different hub, wait for another connecting flight or two. She finally landed in Cleveland 17.5 hours after we left the house that morning. A long time around people hacking and coughing as she heard one guy talking on speaker phone saying he had tested positive all last week. We will see how she is on Friday. I suspected she caught Covid last June when she went to a different canvas course in Ohio where the instructor said he had had it twice. She was sick the week after she got back, but she never tested.
 

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On a positive note concerning aircraft travel, the air you breathe on an aircraft is some of the most filtered and fresh air you will breathe in your travels. The ECS systems use bleed air(or customer service air) to provide conditioned air that passes through PAC's which have HEPA filters that filter 99.97% particulates and mix with fresh air to turn all of the air over every 3-5 minutes. Aircraft designers aren't doing this out of the kindness of their hearts in consideration of your health-they have to use compressed air to pressurize the aircraft as you climb and maintain altitude as its 2.7psi at 40k ft. compared to 14.7psi on the ground. I have elected not to board early anymore but even so usually your aircraft have ground units that operate the ESC systems on the ground for fresh air. Didnt know this-if you are flying on an Airbus, window seat has the freshest air, and to my dismay the middle seat on your Boeing aircraft in your 3x3 configs has the cleanest air. Go figure. Hotels, restaurants, subways other areas of concern. Definitely wear a mask to your comfort level though.
Just a few articles:


Safe travels :)
Pretty good article.

Some of my background is in the auditing of the manufacturing of sterile drugs in clean room environments. I can attest that HEPA filtered air is indeed high quality air. Having air entering the area from the top of the area with returns at or just above the floor is also good design. A high number or air changes is also good. Not always true, but when I was a kid there was a saying "the solution to pollution is dilution". This does apply to contaminants in the air. Generally, the more air changes the better as this washes the contaminants away.

The question that no one talks about, however, is what happens to the air between the time it enters the cabin (after the HEPA filtration) until it exits the cabin? Everyone seems to assume there is a straight line, laminar airflow from the outlets to the returns. However, we know this is not the case as the cabin in not an empty space, but filled with seats, people, and all the crap we stuff underneath the seats in front of us. Whenever air hits a stationary object it diverts around that object and causes turbulent airflow. Thus, whatever is exhaled by the guy or gal nearby you isn't all being flushed away, the turbulence makes sure that some amount is being shared with you.

In a pharmaceutical manufacturing environment, the expectation is that manufacturer perform smoke studies so they can visualize the actual (not just theoretical) airflow in an environment. Taking it up one notch, we expect they studies to be done in a dynamic (operation) state. I have never seen someone attempt to do a smoke study on a loaded plane. My guess it would be a hot mess.

Ever sit in a parked plane for an extended period of time? Often you will NOT feel the air (or possibly a smaller volume of air) coming from your overhead vent, as the plane's engines have been switched off.

Upside of the air system in a plane is that it is much better than a bus or a train.

As I don't find myself in any very crowded situations, I'm not wearing a mask at this time. I likely would, however, to continue to wear a mask (at least from now) on an airplane.

Jim
 

tabbibus

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Pretty good article.

Some of my background is in the auditing of the manufacturing of sterile drugs in clean room environments. I can attest that HEPA filtered air is indeed high quality air. Having air entering the area from the top of the area with returns at or just above the floor is also good design. A high number or air changes is also good. Not always true, but when I was a kid there was a saying "the solution to pollution is dilution". This does apply to contaminants in the air. Generally, the more air changes the better as this washes the contaminants away.

The question that no one talks about, however, is what happens to the air between the time it enters the cabin (after the HEPA filtration) until it exits the cabin? Everyone seems to assume there is a straight line, laminar airflow from the outlets to the returns. However, we know this is not the case as the cabin in not an empty space, but filled with seats, people, and all the crap we stuff underneath the seats in front of us. Whenever air hits a stationary object it diverts around that object and causes turbulent airflow. Thus, whatever is exhaled by the guy or gal nearby you isn't all being flushed away, the turbulence makes sure that some amount is being shared with you.

In a pharmaceutical manufacturing environment, the expectation is that manufacturer perform smoke studies so they can visualize the actual (not just theoretical) airflow in an environment. Taking it up one notch, we expect they studies to be done in a dynamic (operation) state. I have never seen someone attempt to do a smoke study on a loaded plane. My guess it would be a hot mess.

Ever sit in a parked plane for an extended period of time? Often you will NOT feel the air (or possibly a smaller volume of air) coming from your overhead vent, as the plane's engines have been switched off.

Upside of the air system in a plane is that it is much better than a bus or a train.

As I don't find myself in any very crowded situations, I'm not wearing a mask at this time. I likely would, however, to continue to wear a mask (at least from now) on an airplane.

Jim
Like you, I rarely wear a mask lately. Cases are low enough. That may bite me in the butt but we'll see. But if it gets crowded, mask goes on.
 

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Pre pandemic I almost always caught some viral illness after flying. In a couple of weeks I'll do my first post 2020 flight and I'm happy masks are a thing now. I'll wear mine and hope to not catch crud this time around.
Sort of where I'm at. My personal risk appetite, I don't wear a mask anymore except in an environment where I'm required to. Currently planning a nice long trip down to the Keys, I'll mask up on the way down as I really don't want to spend the first couple days of my trip sick with anything. Maybe not on the way back, I wouldn't mind missing a couple more days of work :D
 

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the MfM

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Centaurus is stateside.
 

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Yesterday I finally tested negative for Covid, 9 days in quarantine. Symptoms were like a sinus/head cold but the cough made me sound like a Canadian Goose. I was thankful to make it from the start of the pandemic until now without contracting this. I’m double shorted + I have my first booster (as I’m only 35 and the second one is available yet). Everyone stay safe out there!
 
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