Engine Just quit

[itsdgm]

That's terrible @RoughRider, sorry to hear about it being that serious. Hopefully they'll get on it asap.

 

[OperationROL]

Well there was nothing in the pump. Pulled the pump today and nada. What I mean by won't turn over is that it won't crank. The only sound I hear is a soft whirring that tells me it is spinning. It does not sound the same as starboard starter. So I think it may be just that, a bad starter. However that doesn't explain why it just died while underway. Which to me points to something bigger. So I pulled it back tonight and will goto Dealer tomorrow.

I appreciate all the tips, and all yall are great for the responses. I checked each of the things with my friend who was a jet mechanic in Navy, but hope it is something easy and I feel silly when I update this thread tomorrow and not weeks from now when it will be too cold to boat.

Ok...............so now I am scared. I will be adding an examination of the chain to my winterization process. I am going to also call my dealer and explain to him what is happening and see if we can't get it changed now to prevent a catastrophe.

 

[Bruce]

So how many people has the timing chain happened to? It sounded like a rarity, but just wondering.

I believe it is a rarity but still a very scary rarity. Most owners will enjoy their boats without ever posting on our forum. Our ratio of visitors to members over a month is around 10 to 1 during busy months. Those with problems are more likely to post looking for help. When 5 or 10 out of 5,500 members post about a problem it seems ten times larger than if you consider the 50,000+ visitors who have not registered accounts.

 

[Speedling]

I believe it is a rarity but still a very scary rarity. Most owners will enjoy their boats without ever posting on our forum. Our ratio of visitors to members over a month is around 10 to 1 during busy months. Those with problems are more likely to post looking for help. When 5 or 10 out of 5,500 members post about a problem it seems ten times larger than if you consider the 50,000+ visitors who have not registered accounts.

Unless you consider many are quite possibly mechanics looking for answers to various things such as timing chains. But they can't post or it looks like they don't know what they are doing to the customer.

 

[MattFX4]

So what is this going to do to the reputation and value of the 2015 and earlier boats with the 1.8's? Maybe I will be able to sell mine to someone in a year or two who has never heard of the issue.

 

[Cambo]

Maybe someone will come up with chain fix/ swap out that is more durable and doesn't require replacing the crank. Has this been isolated to certain production years ?

 

[Speedling]

Did yamaha come up with the fix? Or does it require a whole new crank as was suggested?
I know i would be looking to do it right away if i had one of those 1.8 engines.

I keep seeing these things and connext issues and i am glad to have my mr-1!
I am glad that the chain has been upgraded in 2016 models. Hopefully connext ends up being a quick flash upgrade or something for the minor issues people have.

 

[itsdgm]

Did yamaha come up with the fix? Or does it require a whole new crank as was suggested?
I know i would be looking to do it right away if i had one of those 1.8 engines.

I keep seeing these things and connext issues and i am glad to have my mr-1!
I am glad that the chain has been upgraded in 2016 models. Hopefully connext ends up being a quick flash upgrade or something for the minor issues people have.

Im surprised that there arent aftermarket companies working on a replacement timing chain that is stronger. If it's the pins in the link that are failing, possibly a tougher metal would solve the problem and then the stock cam and crank sprockets could be used. There will be a bigger market once the affected engines are out of warranty.

 

[MrMoose]

I wasn't aware that there were so many problems with the connext @Speedling, maybe you can elaborate.
The only all-affecting issue that I am aware of is the incorrect battery voltage reading. @Julian do you know if this is corrected on the 2017 models?
My dealership is Texas Marine, and they have not seen a timing chain failure on a Yamaha at either of their two locations (Houston area), per the service manager.

 

[haknslash]

The new chain is wider, requires wider gears, which requires a new crank for the wider gears. There is a 2016 upgrade kit available for $1,400 per engine or a little less if you source the components individually.

 

[Cambo]

The new chain is wider, requires wider gears, which requires a new crank for the wider gears. There is a 2016 upgrade kit available for $1,400 per engine or a little less if you source the components individually.

I have seen the $1,400 parts quote I wonder what the estimated shop hours to remove the crank and hopefully get it back in correctly sounds like some major wrenching with grease stains all over . Does this require engine removal?

 

[Speedling]

I have seen the $1,400 parts quote I wonder what the estimated shop hours to remove the crank and hopefully get it back in correctly sounds like some major wrenching with grease stains all over . Does this require engine removal?

Yes this will require engine removal, a shop with serious room and good organization. Not to mention a manual of some sort with good torque specs and diagrams etc. Not going to be a project for average joe.

 

[Julian]

The only all-affecting issue that I am aware of is the incorrect battery voltage reading. @Julian do you know if this is corrected on the 2017 models?

Not fixed in the 2017 models....

 

[MrMoose]

Not fixed in the 2017 models....

Maybe the people who are responsible for fixing this at Yamaha are not aware of this issue. Three model years and still not fixed. Hmmm.

 

[Julian]

Maybe the people who are responsible for fixing this at Yamaha are not aware of this issue. Three model years and still not fixed. Hmmm.

No, they are aware as they read this forum AND I talked to them about it at the media preview. Now that @Mainah has done the needed R&D for them, hopefully it will be fixed in 2018.

 

[Cobra Jet Steering LLC]

It only took 16 years to fix the clean out plug issue and the timing chain issue has been around for several years also the single steering cable operating the rudders on the new boats are having steering cables fail and the steering issues including low speed handling , off power control and planting the back of the boat during water sport activity with the jet boats have been around for decades, just recently did they try to address those issues by adding a rudder, fortunately I designed the ez locks for the clean out plugs that have saved many a blowout.
I also designed steering for these boats 15 years ago and I continue to advance it!
I also solved the steering deficits on the keel and rudder boats with the magnum A K steering and adding the very much NEEDED second tie rod with the fangs And don't let anyone try to convince you that your A K boat doesn't need that second tie rod, just think about it ,it's just common sense! It balances out the work load for reduced stresses on the right side steering components that rely on only one tie rod in it's original setup, The MAGNUM A K system also provides you with high speed steering assistance to overcome the keel resistance to turning at high speed since a keel makes the boat want to travel in a straight line. And the Fang option now reduces the stresses on the steering cables and helm with power steering.

 

[MrMoose]

@Cobra Jet Steering LLC, I guess that Yamaha's shortcomings have been good for your business. When are you going to give us a cost-effective TC fix?
Do you sell the tie rod on its own?

 

[MrMoose]

@Cobra Jet Steering LLC, I was talking to my dealer yesterday. The service manager comes from the auto industry (Toyota), and after telling me that neither of their company's two locations have ever had a TC fail, he said that with cars, a timing chain usually stretches before it breaks. He said that if it stretches enough that the tensioner can't take up the slack, the chain will chatter, which can be a warning sign of what is about to come.

 

[haknslash]

@Cobra Jet Steering LLC, I was talking to my dealer yesterday. The service manager comes from the auto industry (Toyota), and after telling me that neither of their company's two locations have ever had a TC fail, he said that with cars, a timing chain usually stretches before it breaks. He said that if it stretches enough that the tensioner can't take up the slack, the chain will chatter, which can be a warning sign of what is about to come.

All chains stretch. The cam chain tensioner in the Yamahas are automatic just like most other modern day chain tensioners. In fact the only way you can get a manual tensioner is to buy aftermarket. Part of the issue with automatic tensioners is they can sometimes fail to ratchet to the next cog and some are even hydraulic-assisted like the ones in my KTM were. If you've ever peeked around on motorcycle forums you'll notice there are plenty of timing chain and tensioner related threads. Most of my bikes have had known timing chain issues and the automatic tensioner would fail, so we would swap them out for APE manual CC tensioners. I probvably went through 2 or 3 OEM automatic tensioners on my Honda CBR as they were prone to fail.

I think with the Yamaha boats it may be not related to the CCT itself but rather inferior design in the chain and/or bad raw material or vendor. It seems it simply wasn't designed to be strong enough for the loads it see's from PWC and boats, hence why it is wider and the other components are beefier as well. Also worth noting is that at some time the chain tension was revised for the Yamaha 1.8L engines. Previous part number was 6S5012210-00-00 which has been superseeded by 6S5012210-01-00. What's strange is that it seems to be that 2014 and 2015 PWC and boats were the most common among people that had them fail. If the part numbers didn't change then that could mean a bad run of production parts, new vendor, worn tooling, a ton of other possible reasons for why. We'll likely never know the true cause.

 

[Cobra Jet Steering LLC]

As for the timing chain s I am pretty pissed off about this issue and like a lot of people I stuck my head in the sand and believed it was just the supercharged engines and not the regular ones.
I ride my skies hard but I also change the oil and filters every 50 hours. I coat the engines with white lithium grease to protect them from salt water exposure, I never run my engines without first going through a warm up procedure and I do not rev the engines on the trailer at the end of the day , I let them idle for a short time to remove excess water from the exhaust. I rinse the inside of the engines with car wash soap that has a wax in it to coat the water passages because I run in salt water.
I have special weed traps that prevent weeds from choking off my pumps because we have a lot of weeds here, these work very nicely I still know I have weeds but they never get in the way of my cooling water nor will they cause cavitation, just a bit of a slight vibration so I know there are weeds and I can get to a good location or jump a wave to knock them off the grate. I can see the pisser working even with weeds in the intake. Weeds can cause issues, not just overheating , they can cause excessive resistance in the drive train that can break motor mounts.
Remember if the pump resists turning it tries to turn the entire engine, what is keeping the engine from turning ? the motor mounts! so rocks in the pumps or sticks can damage those as well as the pump.
Many people who are diehards about getting out on the water can easily understand that I live for it . Having a RELIABLE and TRUSTED ski is paramount.
I have my grand children out on these I go out in front of barrier islands in the Gulf of Mexico I drive many miles away from my beach just to go exploring the area.
We deal with huge lightning storms here that can roll in fast, we can't be stranded due to mechanical unreliability of a machine, or be worrying about it the entire time we are out trying to relax and enjoy our area.
I had to deal with that in the past with a brand new KAWASAKI supercharged ski. I won't ever entertain another water craft with that name on it. It spent more time in the shop than in the water.
I owned many Yamaha skies with the 1800 engines and one was supercharged it logged 650 hours, I don't mind maintenance but I loath unreliability . As for this issue I am now in my 7th week without my ski and the bad part is the repair will be as good or as bad as the mechanic doing the work, I certainly hope people there take pride in their work and I get this back in proper condition, however once this occurs I have to constantly worry about the other 2014 ski that has the original chain and if that one fails I have to repeat this entire ordeal.
This time of year most people are putting up their boats for the season and that will mean out of sight out of mind for some people, unfortunately this will rear it's ugly head soon enough next spring and sadly this will most likely end some peoples boating season before it gets started, it's inevitable.