Fun with the Game Warden.......

[YamaHog]

Man I am just not having much luck......ready for 2020 to be over with! So yesterday it cooled down here in Central Arkansas and was in the 70's with a little bit of a breeze. I took one of my friends and his wife out on my boat at a nearby lake, Lake Maumelle to check out the boat and do some sight-seeing. This is a nice lake as it's municipal water supply for the Central Arkansas metro so there are a lot of restrictions such as no swimming, no waters sports, not PWC. You are left with basically people cruising around relaxing, people fishing, and a lot of sailboats. So unless there's a lot of wind, you typically get pretty smooth waters. We were out for about an hour or so and I was just cruising around showing them the shoreline and places you can see from the highway. I got down to the far end of the lake where the river feeds into the lake under a small highway bridge (Arkansas Highway 10), and was cruising parallel to the bridge to turn around and head back in the other direction, moving along at about 10 - 15 mph. My buddy has kayaks so I was telling him no boats with motors are allowed on the other side of that highway bridge because it shallows off and is a great place we need to take the Kayaks out to sometime. About that time I see a green Johnboat with a motor coming out from under the bridge, and as I'm thinking "well that guy is breaking the rules", I see blue light start flashing.............

I stop my boat and shut off the engine expecting a basic safety check stop to happen, and me and my buddy work to keep the game wardens metal boat from hitting mine. I immediately hand the guy my boat registration and insurance before he asks for it, and have my PFDs and throwable in the middle of the boat floor where visible. He asks for my drvier's license too, so I hand him that also. He proceeds to tell me the "the reason I stopped you today is that I cannot read your hull number at all and you are going to have to take those numbers off and replace them with something else because they are reflective I can't read them". I have 3" Chrome domed lettering that is block style on a white hull that should definitely meet the defined contrast requirements. He came out from under the bridge when I was cruising parallel to it, so there is no way he could have seen me prior to that (levee there the highway runs across and he was on the other side of it).......but he said he tried to see my hull number with binoculars and could not read it at all. If he was using binoculars when coming out from under the bridge when we were only maybe 20 yards apart he needs to have his eyes checked.....

I passed all of my safety inspection and he just wrote me an "official warning" for my hull number. The most stressful part of the entire ordeal was trying to keep my boat off of his metal boat, and off of the bank.

I guess he was just bored, and I'm sure these guys have to record so many safety checks to meet some quota and I'm totally fine with that. It's their job to be sure people have insurance, registration, PFDs etc. The frustrating thing for me is that I paid like $70 for these nice-looking domed chrome letters/numbers that this one game warden is now telling me I have to change because "he" couldn't read them (which I don't believe is the case). Has anybody else had an encounter like this? This sounds to me like one of those "at the officer's discretion" scenarios that can be easily abused if one chooses.

I don't believe my numbers are illegal, and that they do meet the requirements as defined by the state of Arkansas. I'm trying to figure out who to contact with the Arkansas Game & Fish Commission as I want somebody to confirm whether or not these number are indeed considered "illegal" before I pull them off (flush $70) and then have to buy new numbers (not even sure what else would look good on my boat).

Here's what my registration number looks like on my boat as well as the language defining requirements for hull registration # display by the state of Arkansas. I don't see in the language where I don't meet the defined requirements. Nowhere does it say that the lettering/numbering cannot be reflective. My other biggest dilemma now too is that if I go back to this lake again this same guy is likely going to harass me about this and write me a ticket (not sure if it would hold up in court, but would be a big hassle). I have respect for all law enforcement, including the game wardens, but things like this are one of the things that give them a bad name.......In my opinion I wasn't doing anything wrong and was perfectly fine with the safety check. I felt like the guy was disappointed that I had all my PFDs, throwable, insurance, & registration..........just unnecessary stress on what should have been a relaxing day. Sorry for the long post but need to vent and get some other opinions on this as well!

 

[Bluewater272]

That's a PITA. They contrast pretty clearly in that photo, but I could see chrome letters being more difficult to read on the water, especially where light is probably reflecting from the water up onto the numbers as well.

They do look nice though, but I'd change them because I generally do what I can to avoid an LE interaction (even though I certainly support them).

 

[2kwik4u]

Only issue I can see is the chrome. If that was reflecting light from the water, then it'll look like white on white. Black letters combat that easily.

Here are my numbers on the same hull. Otherwise they look almost exactly like yours.

 

[212s]

We've never had an issue, but we've always had high contrast numbers on our boats. Chrome on white is not high contrast in my opinion, and any reflection would make them unreadable, so yeah I'd say they're not legal. While the chrome looks really nice, registration numbers are not there to look pretty. I'm sorry you have to remove them, but the officer was probably right. You can check with your state or federal offices, but I would think they'll say no.

 

[Brad460]

Got pulled over for the same thing years ago ..Sheriff said the color of my registration number decals were not contrasting enough.

Just this year I got harassed by the local sheriff because my registration sticker was too far away from my registration numbers...

I say defund the lake harassing police!

 

[YamaHog]

I'm considering masking around the existing numbers with painters tape since they are vinyl and raised and painting them a flat black. A satin finish shouldn't be reflective at all and I don't see how that could be an issue. I wondering since the raised decals are vinyl, if an acrylic flat black would hold up decent. I wish they would just tell you up front in the language of the registration requirements that chrome or reflective decals are not considered legal. If it would have said that, I would have never purchased chrome to begin with. It seems that "contrast" is subjective here. I assumed that they were after seeing metal chrome numbers on a high-end Cobalt nearby. Any thoughts on painting the existing numbers? I was think Acrylic since it's flexible.

 

[AZMark]

Maybe you could brush them carefully with steel wool or very fine sandpaper to make them a brushed silver and see what that looks like. You’d probably want to rough them up before painting either way.

 

[Lawman25]

Man I am just not having much luck......ready for 2020 to be over with! So yesterday it cooled down here in Central Arkansas and was in the 70's with a little bit of a breeze. I took one of my friends and his wife out on my boat at a nearby lake, Lake Maumelle to check out the boat and do some sight-seeing. This is a nice lake as it's municipal water supply for the Central Arkansas metro so there are a lot of restrictions such as no swimming, no waters sports, not PWC. You are left with basically people cruising around relaxing, people fishing, and a lot of sailboats. So unless there's a lot of wind, you typically get pretty smooth waters. We were out for about an hour or so and I was just cruising around showing them the shoreline and places you can see from the highway. I got down to the far end of the lake where the river feeds into the lake under a small highway bridge (Arkansas Highway 10), and was cruising parallel to the bridge to turn around and head back in the other direction, moving along at about 10 - 15 mph. My buddy has kayaks so I was telling him no boats with motors are allowed on the other side of that highway bridge because it shallows off and is a great place we need to take the Kayaks out to sometime. About that time I see a green Johnboat with a motor coming out from under the bridge, and as I'm thinking "well that guy is breaking the rules", I see blue light start flashing.............

I stop my boat and shut off the engine expecting a basic safety check stop to happen, and me and my buddy work to keep the game wardens metal boat from hitting mine. I immediately hand the guy my boat registration and insurance before he asks for it, and have my PFDs and throwable in the middle of the boat floor where visible. He asks for my drvier's license too, so I hand him that also. He proceeds to tell me the "the reason I stopped you today is that I cannot read your hull number at all and you are going to have to take those numbers off and replace them with something else because they are reflective I can't read them". I have 3" Chrome domed lettering that is block style on a white hull that should definitely meet the defined contrast requirements. He came out from under the bridge when I was cruising parallel to it, so there is no way he could have seen me prior to that (levee there the highway runs across and he was on the other side of it).......but he said he tried to see my hull number with binoculars and could not read it at all. If he was using binoculars when coming out from under the bridge when we were only maybe 20 yards apart he needs to have his eyes checked.....

I passed all of my safety inspection and he just wrote me an "official warning" for my hull number. The most stressful part of the entire ordeal was trying to keep my boat off of his metal boat, and off of the bank.

I guess he was just bored, and I'm sure these guys have to record so many safety checks to meet some quota and I'm totally fine with that. It's their job to be sure people have insurance, registration, PFDs etc. The frustrating thing for me is that I paid like $70 for these nice-looking domed chrome letters/numbers that this one game warden is now telling me I have to change because "he" couldn't read them (which I don't believe is the case). Has anybody else had an encounter like this? This sounds to me like one of those "at the officer's discretion" scenarios that can be easily abused if one chooses.

I don't believe my numbers are illegal, and that they do meet the requirements as defined by the state of Arkansas. I'm trying to figure out who to contact with the Arkansas Game & Fish Commission as I want somebody to confirm whether or not these number are indeed considered "illegal" before I pull them off (flush $70) and then have to buy new numbers (not even sure what else would look good on my boat).

Here's what my registration number looks like on my boat as well as the language defining requirements for hull registration # display by the state of Arkansas. I don't see in the language where I don't meet the defined requirements. Nowhere does it say that the lettering/numbering cannot be reflective. My other biggest dilemma now too is that if I go back to this lake again this same guy is likely going to harass me about this and write me a ticket (not sure if it would hold up in court, but would be a big hassle). I have respect for all law enforcement, including the game wardens, but things like this are one of the things that give them a bad name.......In my opinion I wasn't doing anything wrong and was perfectly fine with the safety check. I felt like the guy was disappointed that I had all my PFDs, throwable, insurance, & registration..........just unnecessary stress on what should have been a relaxing day. Sorry for the long post but need to vent and get some other opinions on this as well!

View attachment 133948

View attachment 133950

I’ll give a law enforcement officer’s perspective on this. I’ll preface this by saying I’m a sergeant in a Chicago suburb, and thankfully we don’t have really have time for petty stuff like this. That being said, the Game Warden/Conservation Officer isn’t wrong in this situation. Chrome is basically like a mirror, and when the sun hits it the reflection can be blinding. Ever been behind a semi trailer with chrome plated doors on the back with the sun hitting them? Add in the reflection from the water, it could be damn near impossible to make out individual letters and numbers, and it has nothing to do with the quality of his eyesight. Just look at the reflection on the number 5 in your photo, and that’s without the sun directly hitting it. I would just replace them, black is obviously a much better contrast with the white. There are so many options out there I’m sure you can find something nice like what you have. Lastly, I did refer to this as petty, but the rules are the rules and they exist for a reason, and this officer was doing his job, despite it being inconvenient for you.

 

[Julian]

I got pulled over with my first boat when I had color fading numbers that didn't contrast well on one end. Replaced them with a single color contrasting well.

 

[Liveto99]

Color must contrast with background.
it does.
i Have it and I’m keeping it.

 

[Canuckjetboater]

@YamaHog ......I'll preface this by saying there are four Police Officers in my Family two Ontario Provincial Police, a Deputy Chief at a large urban Police Force and a Superintendent at a large urban Police force. You have been warned by an Officer rightfully expressing his opinion. He's entitled to do that and you are legally entitled to appeal it. How much do you like the letters and how firm are your convictions. E-mail your pictures to a superior Officer in the department or make an appointment. I did that once years ago and got a letter regarding the issue. No problems for years then got stopped by a young Officer with a couple of pretty young Police Cadets who were ride-alongs. He doubted the letter. I telephoned the by then Senior Staff Sergeant who had issued the letter. The young feller, with a really red face, handed me back my phone and told me to have a safe day. I was never stopped again. Most Officers are putting their lives on the line daily, that said, on issues such as these there are gray zones and opinions. You are entitled to a second opinion - that is what I like about the American Constitution which I studied while in American Schools for three years. As Americans, you have enshrined, codified rights and rights of appeal. My 2 cents.

 

[Liveto99]

 

[212s]

I wish they would just tell you up front in the language of the registration requirements that chrome or reflective decals are not considered legal. If it would have said that, I would have never purchased chrome to begin with. It seems that "contrast" is subjective here. I assumed that they were after seeing metal chrome numbers on a high-end Cobalt nearby.

Sorry the language seems clear and says "high contrast", chrome on white is not high contrast. On a black hull you might have an argument. But on white, nah I don't think so. Adding extra language to specific scenarios is not needed. If an officer believes the contrast is lacking, that's a ticket.

And just because something is sold in stores or someone else does it, doesn't mean it's legal on the water (or the road). I see people drinking on small boats all the time. Just because others do it, or they haven't been caught, doesn't mean it's legal for you to do it.

I also see pickup trucks every day with illegal off-road 100w head lights and off-road lightbars driving the streets at night. Just because you can buy it, doesn't mean you can do whatever you want with it. Street legal lighting is limited to 55w so as not to blind oncoming traffic. Aftermarket LED and extra bright halogen lighting can be bought almost anywhere, including Amazon. But it's for off-road use only, blinding an oncoming police officer with off-road lighting is a sure fire way to get a ticket. Just sayin...

 

[Liveto99]

Are we reading the same law?

 

[212s]

image

That's a bad photo to use to prove your case...don't go to court with that pic unless you have your wallet open.

Imagine you work for SAR looking for a boat in distress, trying to read those numbers at 100ft away while a boat is in motion or just floating over some waves. Remember that the numbers are supposed to be legible and easily read from a distance on the water for safety reasons, not sitting on a trailer 10ft away. That's why it must be a minimum size, block letters, and high contrast for easy visibility.

The Yamaha name on the side can be whatever colour Yamaha wants, and chromed letters looks nice, and the chrome registration numbers looks nice too and matches. I get that. But I don't think it meets the high contrast requirements. Don't be surprised if you get stopped one day.

 

[2kwik4u]

View attachment 133961

On my phone, I can't tell the state or first two numbers unless I zoom in. Even then I had to look twice at the first number.

Not really helping OP's case.

Doesn't really match the boat either IMO.

 

[SCP1]

Man I am just not having much luck......ready for 2020 to be over with! So yesterday it cooled down here in Central Arkansas and was in the 70's with a little bit of a breeze. I took one of my friends and his wife out on my boat at a nearby lake, Lake Maumelle to check out the boat and do some sight-seeing. This is a nice lake as it's municipal water supply for the Central Arkansas metro so there are a lot of restrictions such as no swimming, no waters sports, not PWC. You are left with basically people cruising around relaxing, people fishing, and a lot of sailboats. So unless there's a lot of wind, you typically get pretty smooth waters. We were out for about an hour or so and I was just cruising around showing them the shoreline and places you can see from the highway. I got down to the far end of the lake where the river feeds into the lake under a small highway bridge (Arkansas Highway 10), and was cruising parallel to the bridge to turn around and head back in the other direction, moving along at about 10 - 15 mph. My buddy has kayaks so I was telling him no boats with motors are allowed on the other side of that highway bridge because it shallows off and is a great place we need to take the Kayaks out to sometime. About that time I see a green Johnboat with a motor coming out from under the bridge, and as I'm thinking "well that guy is breaking the rules", I see blue light start flashing.............

I stop my boat and shut off the engine expecting a basic safety check stop to happen, and me and my buddy work to keep the game wardens metal boat from hitting mine. I immediately hand the guy my boat registration and insurance before he asks for it, and have my PFDs and throwable in the middle of the boat floor where visible. He asks for my drvier's license too, so I hand him that also. He proceeds to tell me the "the reason I stopped you today is that I cannot read your hull number at all and you are going to have to take those numbers off and replace them with something else because they are reflective I can't read them". I have 3" Chrome domed lettering that is block style on a white hull that should definitely meet the defined contrast requirements. He came out from under the bridge when I was cruising parallel to it, so there is no way he could have seen me prior to that (levee there the highway runs across and he was on the other side of it).......but he said he tried to see my hull number with binoculars and could not read it at all. If he was using binoculars when coming out from under the bridge when we were only maybe 20 yards apart he needs to have his eyes checked.....

I passed all of my safety inspection and he just wrote me an "official warning" for my hull number. The most stressful part of the entire ordeal was trying to keep my boat off of his metal boat, and off of the bank.

I guess he was just bored, and I'm sure these guys have to record so many safety checks to meet some quota and I'm totally fine with that. It's their job to be sure people have insurance, registration, PFDs etc. The frustrating thing for me is that I paid like $70 for these nice-looking domed chrome letters/numbers that this one game warden is now telling me I have to change because "he" couldn't read them (which I don't believe is the case). Has anybody else had an encounter like this? This sounds to me like one of those "at the officer's discretion" scenarios that can be easily abused if one chooses.

I don't believe my numbers are illegal, and that they do meet the requirements as defined by the state of Arkansas. I'm trying to figure out who to contact with the Arkansas Game & Fish Commission as I want somebody to confirm whether or not these number are indeed considered "illegal" before I pull them off (flush $70) and then have to buy new numbers (not even sure what else would look good on my boat).

Here's what my registration number looks like on my boat as well as the language defining requirements for hull registration # display by the state of Arkansas. I don't see in the language where I don't meet the defined requirements. Nowhere does it say that the lettering/numbering cannot be reflective. My other biggest dilemma now too is that if I go back to this lake again this same guy is likely going to harass me about this and write me a ticket (not sure if it would hold up in court, but would be a big hassle). I have respect for all law enforcement, including the game wardens, but things like this are one of the things that give them a bad name.......In my opinion I wasn't doing anything wrong and was perfectly fine with the safety check. I felt like the guy was disappointed that I had all my PFDs, throwable, insurance, & registration..........just unnecessary stress on what should have been a relaxing day. Sorry for the long post but need to vent and get some other opinions on this as well!

View attachment 133948

View attachment 133950

Don't ask to see mine, lol.

 

[drewkaree]

Any thoughts on painting the existing numbers? I was think Acrylic since it's flexible.

Go get some black Plasti-Dip. It'll be flat-ish (matte finish when it's dry). It'll stick without much prep needed, if any. It'll also be SUPER easy to remove any overspray, to the point that I wouldn't even tape it off. It will tend to break nicely where it needs to come off, but if you're experiencing problems with this, take an X-acto knife or utility knife to cut it to help it come off where you want it. You'll actually be better off OVERspraying it with the same thickness all around the letters, it'll give you a nicer look, and be easier to remove if you've got some extra to hold onto when peeling the excess.

You'll have enough in one can of Plasti-Dip to do your letters 5-6 times over, so if you want, you can set something up to practice OFF the boat, and if you don't like the look or if it's more difficult than you'd like, you're only out a few bucks for the attempt. If you want something a little glossier, or perhaps with a pearl-type sheen or whatever, they also make additional stuff for that. Your local hardware store might carry the additional finishes (one of the 3 big-box stores in my area does, the other two do not), but if not, these guys do: DipYourCar - World Famous Peelable Auto Paint

 

[Liveto99]

Sorry the language seems clear and says "high contrast", chrome on white is not high contrast. On a black hull you might have an argument. But on white, nah I don't think so. Adding extra language to specific scenarios is not needed. If an officer believes the contrast is lacking, that's a ticket.

And just because something is sold in stores or someone else does it, doesn't mean it's legal on the water (or the road). I see people drinking on small boats all the time. Just because others do it, or they haven't been caught, doesn't mean it's legal for you to do it.

I also see pickup trucks every day with illegal off-road 100w head lights and off-road lightbars driving the streets at night. Just because you can buy it, doesn't mean you can do whatever you want with it. Street legal lighting is limited to 55w so as not to blind oncoming traffic. Aftermarket LED and extra bright halogen lighting can be bought almost anywhere, including Amazon. But it's for off-road use only, blinding an oncoming police officer with off-road lighting is a sure fire way to get a ticket. Just sayin...

 

[ChrisM]

Maybe have your contrast and your chrome at the same time?

Wake Series Domed Boat Lettering Black Center / Chrome Outline