Riding in the back of the boat lounge area..

[Julian]

@Britboater - my wife is the same. I merely treat her sitting back the same as having someone on a tube. There is a designated watcher and/or I have my mirror on her.

So you can watch her unconscious body roll off the back and disappear below the water? Sorry for the sarcasm.....but it isnt falling off the back that I fear, but the clear odorless colorless poisonous gas than kills you, or just makes you loose consciousness and then drown.

Now I do agree that the risk of this is very low....but I'll just eliminate that risk entirely and keep folks inside the cockpit.

 

[PaulyB]

So you can watch her unconscious body roll off the back and disappear below the water? Sorry for the sarcasm.....but it isnt falling off the back that I fear, but the clear odorless colorless poisonous gas than kills you, or just makes you loose consciousness and then drown.

Now I do agree that the risk of this is very low....but I'll just eliminate that risk entirely and keep folks inside the cockpit.

I would think that if the threat was that serious, you shouldnt sit in the back seats in the cockpit of the boat either.... Your head is above the bulkhead where the Carbon Monoxide would ultimately go, I dont see it being 18 inches further forward making that much of a difference....

 

[Julian]

I would think that if the threat was that serious, you shouldnt sit in the back seats in the cockpit of the boat either.... Your head is above the bulkhead where the Carbon Monoxide would ultimately go, I dont see it being 18 inches further forward making that much of a difference....

When you are sitting in the cockpit and loose consciousness, you don't fall out of the boat. We each make our own choices. I'll not risk it, and the cops will have to have some other excuse to pull me over....

 

[Britboater]

Your quite right @Julian , after reading this thread I told my wife about the discussion and she went on to tell me she did occasionally smell fumes , don't you just love em .

It is a real issue, and as long as people are aware, they do have the choice. Logic tells me however, the air flow around the head, being high, is too much for any concentration of fumes to accumulate, I mean, somebody sitting in the rear has only about 10" away from some bodies head on the swim deck facing rewards.

 

[subysti]

I've had my CO detector back there ever since I first posted my readings about 3 weeks ago. It did chirp once, when my daughter was spraying sunscreen on. Other than that never a beep.

 

[Julian]

I've been boating on the Yamaha Boats for 12 years now, and a member of this or the other forum since its inception, and I've never heard of someone having a problem sitting back there. That said, most have read the manual, and I've not seen many people do it. I did see a Red Yamaha 21' boat on Falls with a gaggle of kids sitting on the stern, and it is this sort of thing that could lead to tragedy. With a bunch of kids, you might create enough of a draft to cause a problem - if one passes out and falls into the lake....should be ok as they are all supposed to have life jackets on....but I've seen that violated too.

We each choose the risks we are willing to take. I prefer to keep it simple on this one....no riding on the back. Probably fine for one or two adults....but then we get the "PLEAAASSSEE...why can Mom ride back there and I can't" whining....and that would be worse and I'd throw them overboard on principal!

Each to their own....Boat on!

 

[Glassman]

I love this thread...better than Ford Vs. Chevy if you ask me!

The only time I ever had an issue with CO was on a houseboat - it was a brand new, 3 level, top of the line beast of a boat. Due to the way the generator exhausted, it had a tendency to waft back into the boat. The detector would scream loud and often if the door was left open.

BUT, I don't want to be a statistic in anybody's book. So I keep stories like this one in mind:

On June 1, 2002, a family of two adults and three children (two boys aged 4 and 12 years and a girl aged 2 years) and three friends went to a lake in Georgia to water ski. The ski boat was placed in an idling position while one parent put on a ski vest. During this time, the girl climbed over the back of the boat onto the swim platform (a wooden platform attached to the stern a few inches above the surface of the water) and lay in a prone position to push back and kick the water. In <1 minute, she became unconscious and unresponsive.

The girl's father, a family physician, observed that her pupils were constricted and her jaw was firmly clenched. She had a pulse but no chest movement. He performed rescue breathing; after 15--20 assisted ventilations, the child resumed unassisted breathing. Local emergency medical services (EMS) personnel were notified. Approximately 35 minutes later, EMS personnel arrived and started the child on 100% oxygen through a nonrebreather mask and transported the child to the local hospital. Nearly 3 hours after exposure, the child's carboxyhemoglobin (COHb) level was 14.3% (normal: <5.0%). Back calculations of COHb levels estimated that her COHb level was 50%--57% immediately after exposure on the swim platform.

During the initial resuscitation of the girl, her youngest brother was removed from the swim platform and watched by friends during his sister's transport to the hospital. Several hours after being removed from the water, he complained of severe headache, vomited, and fell asleep. He was transported to the hospital for evaluation. Approximately 4 hours after exposure, his COHb level was 10.1%. Back calculations of COHb levels estimated that the boy's COHb level was 18%--21% immediately after exposure. Both children were transported to another hospital, admitted to the pediatric intensive care unit, and treated with 100% oxygen. They were discharged the following day.


Will that happen to me? Not if I can help it!

 

[biglar155]

I love this thread...better than Ford Vs. Chevy if you ask me!

The only time I ever had an issue with CO was on a houseboat - it was a brand new, 3 level, top of the line beast of a boat. Due to the way the generator exhausted, it had a tendency to waft back into the boat. The detector would scream loud and often if the door was left open.

BUT, I don't want to be a statistic in anybody's book. So I keep stories like this one in mind:

On June 1, 2002, a family of two adults and three children (two boys aged 4 and 12 years and a girl aged 2 years) and three friends went to a lake in Georgia to water ski. The ski boat was placed in an idling position while one parent put on a ski vest. During this time, the girl climbed over the back of the boat onto the swim platform (a wooden platform attached to the stern a few inches above the surface of the water) and lay in a prone position to push back and kick the water. In <1 minute, she became unconscious and unresponsive.

The girl's father, a family physician, observed that her pupils were constricted and her jaw was firmly clenched. She had a pulse but no chest movement. He performed rescue breathing; after 15--20 assisted ventilations, the child resumed unassisted breathing. Local emergency medical services (EMS) personnel were notified. Approximately 35 minutes later, EMS personnel arrived and started the child on 100% oxygen through a nonrebreather mask and transported the child to the local hospital. Nearly 3 hours after exposure, the child's carboxyhemoglobin (COHb) level was 14.3% (normal: <5.0%). Back calculations of COHb levels estimated that her COHb level was 50%--57% immediately after exposure on the swim platform.

During the initial resuscitation of the girl, her youngest brother was removed from the swim platform and watched by friends during his sister's transport to the hospital. Several hours after being removed from the water, he complained of severe headache, vomited, and fell asleep. He was transported to the hospital for evaluation. Approximately 4 hours after exposure, his COHb level was 10.1%. Back calculations of COHb levels estimated that the boy's COHb level was 18%--21% immediately after exposure. Both children were transported to another hospital, admitted to the pediatric intensive care unit, and treated with 100% oxygen. They were discharged the following day.


Will that happen to me? Not if I can help it!

The incident @Glassman sites here illustrates the danger of CO. Not only does it asphyxiate you, it stays in your bloodstream for a LONG time.

Let me dive a little deeper.

I work in an environment where CO is a real threat. I wear a 4-gas checker on a regular basis and have regular training on the topic. I've been trained in the use of SCBA for this same reason. (Thankfully, I've never had to "go in" for someone, but I work with those who have had to.)

The first thing to understand is that CO and CO2 are two different things.

CO2 or Carbon Dioxide is a byproduct of breathing. CO2 IS an asphyxiant but nowhere near as dangerous as CO. Our blood expels CO2 to the air via the lungs. The problem with high concentrations of CO2 come from the fact that if there is too much in the air we breath, then our blood can't get rid of CO2. Eventually, there is less room in our blood for oxygen and we experience CO2 poisoning. It's very rare.

CO or Carbon Monoxide on the other hand is a whole 'nuther ball of wax.

Carbon Monoxide is produced as a byproduct of incomplete combustion (no such thing as a 100% efficient engine yet - at least not for the purposes of our discussion).

Here's the important part: Carbon Monoxide bonds with the hemoglobin in your blood better than oxygen does!!! (I always used to hear the figure 10 times better or 5 times better, but let's just say "better" for our discussion.)

I'll offer an incident to illustrate this: I was once in an area that had 400 ppm of CO. (I was leaving, the standard at the time was 100 ppm so it was time to get the heck out of dodge.) I took a deep breath and held it for a few seconds then blew into my gas detector. The detector dropped from 450 ppm to zero for a few seconds. My body was absorbing ALL of the CO in the air.

Think about that.

Your hemoglobin is designed to carry oxygen to your cells. Once CO attaches itself to the hemoglobin, unlike CO2, it won't let go. Just getting a victim of CO poisoning to open air is not enough. They must be given 100% oxygen for an extended period of time before improvement is seen. That whole time the victim's brain and other organs are being starved for oxygen because the hemoglobin is much happier with CO than it is with oxygen.

So swim platform aside, ANY time you think there may be a danger of CO in the air PLEASE be very careful. This stuff is nothing to horse around with.

 

[treeskier]

On a 2 stroke nothing is colorless and odorless so I guess that's one in the plus column ... along with less mosquitos. In all seriousness CO is not really something to take lightly but it never occurred to me to worry about it outdoors. I guess that puts riding lawn mowers and farm tractors in the same boat if you are thinking of long duration exposure to exhaust outside.

 

[biglar155]

On a 2 stroke nothing is colorless and odorless so I guess that's one in the plus column ... along with less mosquitos. In all seriousness CO is not really something to take lightly but it never occurred to me to worry about it outdoors. I guess that puts riding lawn mowers and farm tractors in the same boat if you are thinking of long duration exposure to exhaust outside.

Funny you should mention "long duration" because OSHA looks at the time-weighted-average of exposure to determine what is a "safe" level.

Under "normal" (what exactly does that mean anyway) circumstances you don't need to worry about CO building up in the open air from the aforementioned devices. But what about on a hot, humid, windless day? Maybe under the eve of the house? Air currents do weird things.

I was once walking the blast-furnace high-line (previous job) and was out in a completely open area. The nearest structure (other than the one I was standing on) was 50+ yards away. All of a sudden my gas detector went off. It was reading 1200 ppm and climbing. I can only guess that some wind current had dragged a pocket of CO down from the Furnace Top and I was walking through it. Whatever the cause, when I saw the numbers that high, I ran like a scared rabbit. Once you see them start going that high, you don't take any chances on where it's going to stop...

 

[Bennie]

@Julian - First I completely agree on tossing the kiddos overboard!! They need to learn how to swim anyway, lol

As for the backseat, like I said before, treat it just like being out of the boat = PFD and a designated watcher/mirror. I am a safety inspector offshore and deal with hazardous gasses and materials on a daily bases. Knowledge of deadly/poisonous gasses is a must in my position. I have to agree with @biglar155 = it's possible but HIGHLY unlikely. OSHA gives us very specific values. I forgot who said they had a monitor back there but I would be very interested in knowing if it gave a value, and if not at what value it alarmed if there was not a digital readout.

I have attached the OSHA atmospheric values for CO for all to see. But we'd need a gas monitor with a read out to get us a more definitive answer. But then it will still only steer one or two people. As mentioned before, this conversation is much alike to the "Ford vs Chevy" century long argument.

 

[Julian]

this conversation is much alike to the "Ford vs Chevy" century long argument.

Except the only risk of death in that argument is that of the poor old Ford! LOL

 

[Murf'n'surf]

I know that when we are in a no wake zone with a slight wind coming aft, we are traveling just a bit slower than the pocket of exhaust. When doing so, you can smell it and start getting the light headed effect ...... I wonder if that would get me out of a speeding ticket? Hmmmm.....

 

[Billtex2000]

I believe the summons would read something akin to "Riding on a portion of the vehicle not intended for passengers". CO issues aside, it's risky, dangerous and not at all smart. Same reason I wouldn't let anyone ride in the back of a pickup. One bump and your dead

 

[swatski]

Regarding CO inhalation risk, would sitting on the stern platform be different than wake surfing 2ft from the transom?
I want to wake surf. My kids want to wake surf, too...

 

[Glassman]

More:

http://wake9.com/wakesurfing-boating-carbon-monoxide-safety-information/

 

[MikeyL]

Georgia Actual facts: All of this relating to the Lounge area on Yamaha's in general, but also including a SWIM PLATFORM !!!!!!!!

In the state of Georgia, for ALL navigatible waters, the ONLY regulation regarding where people cannot ride is as follows:

"Riding on the Bow or Gunwale is illegal if the boat is not equipped with a railing or some other retaining device. As a boat operator, you are prohibited from allowing your passengers to ride on the bow or gunwale."

We do some really DUMB things in our beloved state. For example, we are 1 of only 3 states that do NOT "title" boats. Not whatsoever.

I found it hard to believe that the above wording does not prohibit the insane practice of allowing a passenger(s) to ride on a Swim Platform, let alone a Yamaha rear lounging area.

So I called six (6) different regional DNR offices, and spoke to Enforcement Officers. These are the kind, fatherly fellas (grin) that write boating tickets/fines.
The answer is IT IS NOT AGAINST the law and no ticket will be issued. That's not to say, they pointed out, that if you found doing/allowing this, that this nice officer would not stop you and STRONGLY advise you that this is an unsafe practice.

Two different officers went on to say that as far as Georgia laws and changes are concerned, Georgia works on "The Lake Lanier System." That means not until some catastrophe occurs on Lanier will regulations be changed/improved. Like when 2 different seriousboating catastrophies occuring on Lanier in 2012 caused Georgia legislators to tighten up the BUI laws form 0.10 down to 0.08.

So there ya have it. Sorry to be so lengthy, but I wanted my breathren here in the state to know exactly what the enforeable laws are in the State of Georgia.

Mikey Lulejian - Shaking his head in disgust at some of our state's rules on Lake Oconee

 

[TheGreekTitan]

I am in GA, and honestly I appreciate the rule, or lack thereof. I'm a live and let live / to each their own type of guy. Do we really need to police everybody in every aspect of their lives???? I think it's awesome that so many people care about mine as well as everyone else's lives. But really, I'm okay, I promise, swear.

BTW I do not allow anyone to ride on the swim platform while under way (My Choice). I also don't look down on anyone who does allow adults to do so. They are adults, it should be their choice.

Ever heard the song by the American Idol contestant Bucky Covington? I'm not old by any means, and my Mom did not smoke or drink, but I do believe it is somewhat pertinent to this conversation.

 

[MikeyL]

Excellent post @TheGreekTitan.