Riding in the back of the boat lounge area..

[rkluck]

Julian, yes I saw that as well. I think our back deck area has sides and a way to hang on (retaining devices). But I can see where there is no back to keep you from falling out if you don't hold on.When looking at the picture I read that as the picture reflects laying on a back deck with no had grips and no sides is illegal. You have nothing to hold on to. Shoot I have had people in the front almost come out of the boat as well when hitting big wakes. Either way when running on open water I don't let anyone ride back there because I am afraid I may lose them. I have had riders on the platform when going slow in coves and such. The next time a see a DNR person I will ask. Good chance this weekend! They are always around on holidays.

 

[subysti]

Its illegal in most states. I was actually stopped for it already but the EP let us go because there are actual seats back there which they considered a retaining device. They aren't like most boats with no seats and an outdrive and prop below it. I only go a no wake speed if someone is back there. I'm going to bring my home CO detector this weekend and see what it reads. I think most of the "smoke" people see back there is actually just steam from the engine output. I only see that after a hard run towing 3 or 4 people in a tube but it goes away fairly quick. Just my .02

 

[rkluck]

Aren't the blowers the only thing venting near the rear seats?

 

[Boat Crazy]

Aren't the blowers the only thing venting near the rear seats?

Your engine exhaust goes out through the exhaust port under the deck. There are openings behind the deck seat that allow any engine compartment fumes to come out just under the rear deck backrest.

 

[Trevor Shipman]

Many might think I'm being irresponsible but you can't please everyone. I consider myself a very safe boater and certainly don't advertise sitting back there for the people on board but if a grown man (or woman) wants to sit back there I'm not going to be their mom and tell them no. Typically, they will ask if they're allowed to, I say no but if you want you can (as Chris Rock would say, "you're a grown ass man"). If someone is back there I keep a safe speed and make sure they are not in jeopardy. Look, your not supposed to ride in the back of a pick-up truck but people do and I have great memories of doing it when I was little in my dads F150. Boating is supposed to be fun. And sitting back there is awesome!!! Sitting back there poses no danger to others so I say have at it if you want. Usually, someone only is back there for 3-5 mins and that's it.

 

[justason]

It is illegal in NC. WE do it when wake-surfin however. I ask those back there to wear a life jacket.

 

[sysinu]

I've gotten a written warning for doing it - and I even told the person who snuck back there not to go back and sit there while we're underway.

It's all up to the driver/owner to tell people what their wishes are ... since if you get pulled up to by the LEO it is the owner/driver getting the ticket.

 

[rkluck]

Boat Crazy, That is what I was thinking as well. So really there are very few fumes or concerns around exhaust on the platform. I agree safety in all regards is up to us!

 

[Bennie]

I understand the danger of the experience. Hence my boat has a very strict NO riding on the swim deck - for children.
As for the adults - thou shalt wear a life jacket. This stems from my wife (the protective hen) insisting on being back there while the kid is out on the tube.

As for the CO (chemical nomenclature for Carbon Monoxide) it is a very real danger. The "silent killer" is dangerous however only when it can easily be inhaled - ie. when at idle and people are sitting on the swim deck or are floating in the water nearby. However - when you are at a decent speed and the exhaust is being expelled into the water you are not at a (mention-able) danger of CO poising. Any person (child to adult) would feel a headache and dizzy before succumbing to CO. In addition, though CO itself may be a clear odorless gas, the spent fumes from your exhaust (which CO would be found in) will have the pungent smell of burnt carbon fuel that we are all well familiar with.

My biggest danger with that sitting arrangement while underway is the ease of being swept away and being entangled in the tow rope if deployed.
Now THAT is a dangerous situation!

 

[Julian]

@Bennie, when running at speed our boats exhaust is MORE out of the water than when idling...so. It is in no way being expelled into the water.

@rkluck how do you know there are no CO fumes circulating around the swim platform?

@Trevor Shipman i agree that adults should make up their own minds, but as the captain of the vessel you are responsible for their wellbeing. As long as you inform them of the risks and they chose to do it anyway, you are in a slightly better position in the event of an incident...but liable none the less (short of them signing a release).

Great discussion. Most cops won't ticket you unless you are a repeat offender. The manual of our boats clearly states the swim platform are not seats for occupying while underway. Just not worth the risk for me as the liable captain....I have great insurance....but simply couldn't live with hurting someone.

 

[bronze_10]

I make it easy... hey.. can u ride back there?.. NO! as I keep driving..

 

[rkluck]

I am sure there are some fumes but being in the open and moving a can't imagine there is a concern. It is not like in a closed cabin in a boat or a garage/house.

 

[Skysurfer2010]

I'm going to have an unpopular opinion, and I'm definitely open to hear why my thinking is wrong.

#1- safety. I consider myself extremely cautious and never allow my passengers to do anything stupid or negligent. However, I've owned many pwc over the years. How is riding back there while sitting in a seat with a life jacket on and holding onto a grab handle any different than riding a pwc? Pwc have the same emissions as our boats.

#2- legality. Most laws state that you can't be on the transom while underway. But are you technically on it? Our transom, although small and shallow due to our jets, actually starts after our seats. And not to mention, there's an actual seat back there for those of us who also have the bottom seat cushions. It might be harder to debate this with the law if you don't have seat cushions.

I don't allow people to sit back there while cruising underway. But I have had friends sit back there while in a no wake to let them off the rear transom at the dock. I personally don't think it's any more unsafe than riding a pwc.

 

[Trevor Shipman]

I'm going to have an unpopular opinion, and I'm definitely open to hear why my thinking is wrong.

#1- safety. I consider myself extremely cautious and never allow my passengers to do anything stupid or negligent. However, I've owned many pwc over the years. How is riding back there while sitting in a seat with a life jacket on and holding onto a grab handle any different than riding a pwc? Pwc have the same emissions as our boats.

#2- legality. Most laws state that you can't be on the transom while underway. But are you technically on it? Our transom, although small and shallow due to our jets, actually starts after our seats. And not to mention, there's an actual seat back there for those of us who also have the bottom seat cushions. It might be harder to debate this with the law if you don't have seat cushions.

I don't allow people to sit back there while cruising underway. But I have had friends sit back there while in a no wake to let them off the rear transom at the dock. I personally don't think it's any more unsafe than riding a pwc.

Nail. Head. Couldn't agree more.

 

[Julian]

We all have opinions....no right answer on this one until someone does a CO test. My thoughts on @Skysurfer2010 points...

1) The freeboard on our boats is WAY higher than a PWC - and even higher on the 2007+ boats. Comparing a PWC to a 24' boat is like comparing a Fiat to an SUV. The draft behind a boat will be WAY different than behind a PWC.

2) Legally the swim decks of our boats are NOT designated seating for occupants underway....consult your manual....it will show (or mine did), big "X"s for the swim deck. Have yet to see a state where riding there would be legal. But would be surprised to hear of anyone actually getting a ticket....a warning yes.

Sitting back there at idle, no wake or slow speeds is probably the most dangerous time as there will be less air circulating to disappate the CO. At 20+ MPH I would be very surprised if at adult head height there was any CO detectable, but lower down at a kids head height there could well be significant eddys circulating CO. Cross winds, tail winds etc will all change the dynamics.

Someone on the forum has to have a decent CO detector...nothing like testing.

But even if we tested the theory and proved no CO, cops will still give you that warning, and use it as a reason for pulling you over and inspecting your boat. I don't need that waste of time. The seats in the boat are just fine for my riders.

 

[Bennie]

Sooo ... to each his own. Be safe, look at the big picture and judge this in a case by case scenario.

@Skysurfer2010 - I wholeheartedly agree, but I must admit though, that @Julian does have a point. At higher speeds we are at a much lesser risk of CO poisoning, and a larger risk of falling/drowning. However at lower speeds the fumes coming out from under the vessel (as least on my boat design), are right there and in your face. Its like being in stop-and-go traffic with your windows down or going 60mph in traffic, with your windows down. We all know the difference there. Same applies to us. But now they are riding on our "tailgates".

This again ends up with to each his own - just remember it is YOUR boat, you are the captain, you alone have full responsibility and as such the final say. I hope everyone stays safe and most importantly remember that for you to make the proper decisions you must NOT - drink and drive/boat.

 

[Trevor Shipman]

The sister in law has a CO monitor (they have a new addition to the family) I'll see I can't steal it one day. I think we all agree that sitting back there is not a solution or better than sitting in the cabin but, when it's calm out, weekday, sunset cruise hard to beat.

If I get a chance to test the CO monitor I shall follow up.

 

[rkluck]

Yesterday I saw many of the wake surfers with many (4 to 6) people laying on the back transom while someone was surfing. Besides the obvious safety issue I would have to think there would be many fumes there as well from the engines. I think we all have safety on our minds first and that is will insure we boat and play safe! We had a great day yesterday on the water topped off with over an hour of fireworks as we float around. Great times.

 

[GTBRMC]

Interesting info here...worth a look: http://www.slideshare.net/mobile/OutreachNSBC/co-poisoning-presentation-ibwss-2012

One slide mentions "the station wagon effect"...basic concept here is a truck, car, boat, etc moving across a surface and through the air will - at certain part(s) of its speed curve - create a low pressure zone behind it. This is what allows stock cars, bicycle road racers, and semis to draft behind each other. It also can very strongly pull fumes back into the trailing edge of the moving vehicle.

It is called the station wagon effect because the station wagons from the days when old school station wagons had third row seats and fully opening tailgate windows. Driving such a wagon with the rear window open could pull high concentrations of exhaust back into the car.

On a moving jetboat, when this part of the speed curve is reached, three factors can all line up:

1. The station wagon effect
2. Higher revs from engine(s) create significantly more exhaust gasses
3. Sitting on swim platform brings the mouth and nose much lower to the surface...where exhaust gases will be less disturbed by air flow from the boat's forward motion

We all have choices to make all of the time. As boat captains, we have many choices to make that affect others. We need to make sure we make those decisions considering all information available.

I would love to see Boattest or some other group do some dynamic co gas concentration testing and plot those curves.

 

[Jim Robeson]

All good points but I have to say that after working in chemical plant for a number of years and all the safety talks, makes me constantly think about safety... especially when boating. The one thing that comes to mind is if someone was to fall off the back and there happens to be another boat behind you, will they see that person in the water quick enough to avoid them??