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Riding in the back of the boat lounge area..

subysti

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Well I tested it today. I have a battery operated CO detector. Used some gorilla tape and placed it in a few different locations on the transom at varying speeds throughout the day. It never beeped, not once. Funny thing though, I put it in the port side storage area above the glove box and it started beeping. Seems we had a bottle of spray on sunscreen that was leaking in there. So I think we're getting more CO fumes from using the sunscreen than riding on the transom.
 

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Well I tested it today. I have a battery operated CO detector. Used some gorilla tape and placed it in a few different locations on the transom at varying speeds throughout the day. It never beeped, not once. Funny thing though, I put it in the port side storage area above the glove box and it started beeping. Seems we had a bottle of spray on sunscreen that was leaking in there. So I think we're getting more CO fumes from using the sunscreen than riding on the transom.
Awesome!! Thanks for testing!
 

Julian

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Well I tested it today. I have a battery operated CO detector. Used some gorilla tape and placed it in a few different locations on the transom at varying speeds throughout the day. It never beeped, not once. Funny thing though, I put it in the port side storage area above the glove box and it started beeping. Seems we had a bottle of spray on sunscreen that was leaking in there. So I think we're getting more CO fumes from using the sunscreen than riding on the transom.
That is good to know for your model and shape of hull....but that station wagon effect will change with people sitting there, and other shaped hulls will differ in their readings....perhaps.
 

rkluck

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Well I tested it today. I have a battery operated CO detector. Used some gorilla tape and placed it in a few different locations on the transom at varying speeds throughout the day. It never beeped, not once. Funny thing though, I put it in the port side storage area above the glove box and it started beeping. Seems we had a bottle of spray on sunscreen that was leaking in there. So I think we're getting more CO fumes from using the sunscreen than riding on the transom.
Thanks for taking the time to test. I try to keep the spraying of sunscreen off the boat too! Always hard to clean up (HA)!

I also agree I don't want anyone to fall off the back while moving! I don't mind adventure but I want to keep everyone as safe as possible while cruising.
 

morgro269

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It's a stupid law... Put whoever the hell you want on a tube and do your best to kill them, but don't dare ride on the seat on the back of the boat.
 

Trevor Shipman

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It's a stupid law... Put whoever the hell you want on a tube and do your best to kill them, but don't dare ride on the seat on the back of the boat.
AGREED! If you haven't sat back there you wouldn't understand how safe you feel. You don't feel half of the rough ride!
 

Julian

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Sorry, but it has nothing to do with how safe you feel. It has to do with the station wagon effect and that SOME boats can kill you with it. Just because one test, in one atmospheric situation failed to have a house CO detector's alarm to go off does not make it universally a safe thing to do. When you climb on a tube, you physically move to taking a risk doing something that could injure you.

If you quietly sit on the stern of someone's boat (and they don't warn you about the risks of CO poisoning), feel nice and safe back there, enjoying the smooth ride, and then pass out, fall off the back and drown.....that isn't what you signed up for, or what you expected. Not to mention that CO is colorless and odorless.

Not a good way to win a darwin award at all! Way to quiet and not spectacular.

In March, 2007, officers were dispatched to a campsite regarding a 2 year old male who was not breathing. The boy was found lying on a towel crying, responsive and aware of his surroundings. The boy had previously been on board a Tige ski boat with his family. He was leaning over the transom watching wake boarders put on their equipment. The boat was idling the entire time victim was leaning over the transom. The boy became unconscious due to inhaling the engine exhaust fumes. The boy kept going in and out of consciousness. Family members would shake the him and then he would start to cry. The boy was transported to a local hospital for medical assistance. (Source: US Coast Guard BARD)

In July, 2007, a 16 year old boy was leaning over the back of a 21 ft. Tige ski boat watching a wake board rider He inhaled CO and was transported to Skaggs Community Hospital in Branson. Hospital officials said he was treated and released. (Source: New Releases, US Coast Guard BARD) Propulsion engine exhaust

In August 1996, three girls (ages 6, 8, and unknown), were sitting on the swim platform of a Master Craft 1985 ski boat with a slotted teakwood swim platform. They were dragging their feet in the water as the boat moved at idle speed through a no-wake zone heading home. As the girls hopped back on the boat, the operator noticed that one was missing. He looked back and saw a foot sticking up in the turbulence 100 feet back. The operator reversed the boat, dove in, and found his 8- year-old daughter unconscious, eyes wide, mouth agape, head down, feet up, fully unconscious 5 feet underwater. After 20 minutes of successful resuscitation, she transported to the hospital. The hospital tested for COHb, revealing that she had CO poisoning. She was admitted to the hospital overnight. (Source: Statement from the parent of the victim) Propulsion engine exhaust

In October 2006, a 24-year-old female survived CO poisoning while riding on a 2006 Yamaha VX 110 jet ski (personal watercraft, or PWC). She was seated behind the PWC operator, facing outward while they towed someone on a tube. While they drifted into shore, the victim stated she was not feeling well. The operator took the victim to shore, and the victim lost consciousness. When the local fire department arrived, the victim was responsive, but still fading in and out of consciousness. She was transported to a local hospital, where she left against medical advice. (Source: AZ Boating Accident Report) Jet ski engine exhaust

In September 2005, a 34-year-old man died as a result of CO poisoning. He was aboard an 1998 Ultra ski boat with a jet propulsion inboard engine. The victim dove into the water to attempt to remove grass and debris from the inlet pump of the engine. He got back on the boat, sitting on the transom, facing the rear of the boat. Witnesses said he fell off the vessel into the water. His body was recovered two days later.

In July 2001, a 12-year-old girl seated on the stern of a 21’ 1980 Bahmer Sport Cruiser open motor boat moving slowly through the water was overcome by engine exhaust and fell into the water. The victim was transported to the hospital to be treated for CO poisoning. Her COHb after 40 minutes of oxygen therapy was 20.6%. (Source: Coast Guard database; Arizona Game and Fish Boating accident report) Propulsion engine exhaust

In 1997, a boat operator paused to pull in the ski rope when a skier had finished skiing. The children in the boat were hot, so they were allowed to jump in the water while they paused there. The propulsion engine was not deactivated because the stop was going to be so brief. One of the children sat on the swim platform for "less than 2 minutes" prior to getting back in the boat. She called out for her mother, looked up, and then lost consciousness. She then went into a seizure, stopped breathing, and turned blue. She was wearing a life jacket, so her mother was able to pull her from the water and get her into the boat, initiating resuscitation efforts. Her family transported her to the hospital. (Source: WSMV television interview, Nashville TN) Propulsion engine exhaust

In 1996, a 10-year-old passenger sat on the swim platform of a pleasure craft while the inboard propulsion engine was operating and was poisoned. (Source: US Coast Guard Database) Propulsion engine exhaust In 1997, a 25-year-old water skier was poisoned as she was preparing to ski. (Source: US Coast Guard Database) Propulsion engine exhaust

 

Trevor Shipman

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Guess we're going to have to agree to disagree. Again, I consider myself a very safe boater and take pride in it. But I also live on the philosophy that everything we do could be considered dangerous. Whitewater rafting, driving to work, cliff jumping, lighting fireworks, crossing the road are all dangerous. If the conditions are rough, or it's a crowded lake day I won't let someone ride back there. I've ridden back there too many times to count and have never experienced any signs of CO (drowsiness etc). I'll still take my sis in laws CO monitor to conduct my own test. Again I know my voice is the unpopular one and I do respect and appreciate all comments, however, one of the main reasons I love my boat is due to the transom area. I think my risk of getting CO poisoning back there is about the same as getting bit by a shark off the coast of NC, but I would still go to the beach.
 
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Julian

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Agreed. I think it was @jawsf16 who said it early on....its all about risk, tolerance and avoidance. I'm not saying our boats have a high risk...but if you aren't back there....it is an even lower risk....and I see no need to be sitting back there.

I'm no doctor, but I think CO will build up in the blood stream over time. So a low amount of CO that doesn't cause a dectector to alarm can be inhaled and continues to bond with your hemoglobin, and over time effectively slowly suffocates you. So I'm not sure I'd trust this CO dectector methodology....
 

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It would be interesting to get a CO detector with a digital readout and max ppm tracking. Not sure if @subysti had one like this or not. Many home detectors only alarm over a period of 10 min exposure for lower levels....
 

subysti

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This is the one I used. It has a digital display with memory and updates every 15 seconds. Again I've only let people ride back there at no wake speeds as I don't want to lose someone, and only with a life jacket on. I think the CO warning from Yamaha is just to cover their butts if someone decides to ride laying down with their head right next to the water. I'm sure someone has done it. It's all about liability now.

http://www.westsidewholesale.com/kidde-c3010d.html?keyword=Google_Shopping&mr:trackingCode=A25628AA-9530-E411-AC89-BC305BF933C0&mr:referralID=NA&mr:device=t&mr:adType=plaonline&mr:ad=56682931525&mr:keyword=&mr:match=&mr:filter=98525987125&gclid=CjwKEAjwzuisBRClgJnI4_a96zwSJACAEZKeZq3qJDAmi1FKBJKTFcIhhjUDvvj3WyAW8e3gY2doGxoCSPLw_wcB
 

Bennie

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All that I've seen is correct, to some degree. CO can build up over time, but we're talking 50ppm over 8hrs - and that's the OSHA permissible exposure limit. But then the exposure will differ from one boat to another, one day to another, and the load on the vessel. (How many passengers and where they're sitting). On top of that, the possibility for CO poisoning differs between each and every one of us. Of course children are much more susceptible than adults...for the most part. This is just the same as some of us can drink a six pack and still walk and talk just fine, while others of us would be ready for a nap. It's all about our internal abilities.

As with any task: STOP, assess, question, then proceed. Let's practice safety and not learn it.
 

jawsf16

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This thread makes about as much sense as the "my small tow vehicle is fine to tow this giant boat" threads. You potentially endanger others and you are responsible for your actions.

What is the thrill exactly of riding back there vs in the bow? I completely don't get it.
 

morgro269

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My issue is with the law. We have enough of them. The CO warning sticker should be good enough. There is a sticker warning my passengers to keep their rectums and vaginas away from the jet but no law mandating it.
 

Skysurfer2010

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Completely disagree. I don't think there's anymore exposure to CO than riding a pwc. Coming from someone who has owned 10 pwc averaging well over 100 hours per season I think the risk is minimal.

If you don't get it, then try it. I've only allowed passengers to sit back there for docking reasons and it's typically only someone that has boating experience that I've taught. I have sat back there once while underway and I have to admit it was a cool experience. Smoothest place to sit on the boat and it's just a completely different experience.

You're free to operate your boat as you see fit. I'll operate mine as I see fit and think is safe.

Edit- my response is to jaws.
 

Trevor Shipman

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This thread makes about as much sense as the "my small tow vehicle is fine to tow this giant boat" threads. You potentially endanger others and you are responsible for your actions.

What is the thrill exactly of riding back there vs in the bow? I completely don't get it.
What thrill do you get out of driving your boat? What trill do you get out of tubing, wakeboarding, swimming in a pool, jet skiing? To each his own, I won't judge. Sitting back there doesn't pose anymore danger than sitting in the cabin. Neither have seatbelts. Actually, I would argue that sitting back there is more safe, think of it as the same reason they turn car seats facing the back of the car. Furthermore, sitting back there doesn't affect anyone other than the person back there. Poses no increased danger to others. If you want to argue the CO then do so, but to say you are endangering any one is not a fair statement. How do you figure sitting in the bow is more safe? You hit a big wave, fall out of the bow and the boat hits you. Me, I fall out off the stern and I'll take a good bit of water to the face, no fear of the boat hitting me.
 

Bennie

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This thread makes about as much sense as the "my small tow vehicle is fine to tow this giant boat" threads. You potentially endanger others and you are responsible for your actions.

What is the thrill exactly of riding back there vs in the bow? I completely don't get it.
I don't really get it either, but then I LOVE my captain's seat and don't see myself giving it up either. To each their own.
 

biglar155

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Something to consider: It looks to me like members who have had safety training in other areas of their lives are the ones who don't feel this is a safe way to ride for one reason or another (myself included).

Why is that? Because when you work in a dangerous environment (like a Manufacturing Facility or a Chemical Plant) you are (hopefully) taught by your employer how to work safely and make sure others work safely. We are taught that every accident is preventable. We are taught that "I've done that 100 times and nothing has happened" is one of the worst possible excuses for working in an unsafe manner. (I once watched a squirrel cross a busy street successfully 12 1/2 times. Well, the last 1/2 time wasn't really a "success" I suppose.)

@jawsf16 is a professional fighter pilot. That's a dangerous job. He's supposed to be filled with bravado and "going mach 1 with hair on fire" right? So what's going on here? Why is he concerned about this "simple" act of riding on the swim-deck? The answer is that he works under a very strict safety system. He's been taught not just to follow rules but to "see safety."

Dangerous things can be done safely, but first you have to admit the danger. I've been a boater all my life and I've always had just a little fear of the water. I've worked in manufacturing for 20 years and I've always had just a little fear of the equipment I'm surrounded by. It's that little fear that makes you stop and think about what you're doing at all times. I remember early in my career telling an Electrical Foreman that I still wasn't used to being around this big stuff. He said "Don't get used to it. If you get used to it, it's going to kill you one day."

Being on or near the water is dangerous. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise. We can mitigate that danger and still have a great time with our family and guests, but we have to remember that it is dangerous. If we forget that, we let down our guard and that's where the trouble starts.

So whether it's riding on the swim-deck, wearing life-jackets, or the manner in which you operate your vessel, please try to think about all of the "what ifs." Look "above, around, and inside" the situation for safety. STOP. Take 2. (Yes I'm referencing common industrial safety programs.) I'd much rather have someone call me a party pooper than have them lying dead in my arms because of something I did or failed to do.
 

GTBRMC

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I am going to bow out of this discussion. 'net arguments are not my bag, baby.

However, as noobs and people searching for knowledge and information will be coming here and reading these threads for years to come, I felt it important to weigh in on the safety aspects of swim platform riding.

I do not judge others on the safety-related decisions they make in most cases. Is there a known CO risk? Absolutely. Is it a high risk? Hard to say. In my book this is one of those low frequency / very high severity issues. And I make my choices accordingly. Is it illegal? In most places, yes. Will you get popped for doing / allowing it? Depends.

We are a band of brothers (and sisters) here in some respects, but we will not always make the same choices.

Anyway, safe AND fun boating to you all.
 
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