Russia Invades Ukraine AND Chinese Aircraft Enter Taiwan Airspace

[tabbibus]

3 tier system

Learned something today. Thanks

 

[BlkGS]

We were talking about Russia's "Democracy". Not really the same level of issues in the US vs Russia. No one running for US office has been murdered, poisoned, imprisoned etc.

Is the US approach perfect? - NO FREAKIN WAY. We have oligarchs just like the Russians do - our "peasants" are sold the same crap as Russian peasants - hard work will get you opportunity (trickle down). Fortunately corruption here is far easier to blow a whistle on - and that alone does make a HUGE difference - and helps keep the playing field more fair.

We do still have legal (should be illegal) monopolies that many people know nothing about (like the 3 tier system of alcohol distribution) - old money making sure the regulations maintain the status quo so their illegal monopoly keeps them in their Yachts!

By the same token, Russian politicians don't have to worry about being character assassinated, illegally recorded and goaded for them to say something to be used against them, bringing up baseless accusations or random comments from decades ago, or media that will just flat out lie and manipulate information to cause more outrage and attention.

Russia's democracy is run by the government. Ours is run by oligarchs that own our media. We can tell ourselves it's better, but it's really the same. At least the government has the country's interests at heart in some way. The media only cares about their profits and whatever personal causes their billionaire owners are pushing.

Corruption is so engrained into our world now its impossible to root out. The algorithms that dictate what info you get and what you see and what should be hidden, etc are the most corrupt and pervasive thing in our history. And they have permeated everything.

 

[tabbibus]

Man, I dunno. I kinda prefer to be "cancelled" than murdered or poisoned. That is just me.

 

[ripler]

Word is that Poland is deploying all of its Mig-29 jets to Rammstein AFB for the US to do what they want with them, in exchange for used F15s. The US is going to give them to Ukraine. I wonder what would happen if the US slapped an American flag on them and sent them to Ukraine for "training operations". That would be instant no fly zone.

 

[Julian]

Russian politicians don't have to worry about being character assassinated

I guess we'll agree to disagree that they are anything close to similar, and that Russia is a free open democracy. Russians don't have to worry about character assassination? Really. Oh....they just have to worry about being assassinated period? They dream of just having their character assassinated! LOL

You said Russia is a democracy. I disagree.
You say the US is a worse democracy than Russia. I agree that our democracy has serious issues, but its far better than Russia fake democracy.

 

[Julian]

Word is that Poland is deploying all of its Mig-29 jets to Rammstein AFB for the US to do what they want with them, in exchange for used F15s. The US is going to give them to Ukraine. I wonder what would happen if the US slapped an American flag on them and sent them to Ukraine for "training operations". That would be instant no fly zone.

Everything I've read is saying the opposite or at least that this won't happen anytime soon. Is there something new that just happened?

Proposed plan to send fighter jets to Ukraine hits logistical snag

“It’s a lot easier to give hand-held weapons than it is to transfer a plane,” one source familiar with the discussions said.

www.nbcnews.com

 

[BlkGS]

I guess we'll agree to disagree that they are anything close to similar, and that Russia is a free open democracy. Russians don't have to worry about character assassination? Really. Oh....they just have to worry about being assassinated period? They dream of just having their character assassinated! LOL

You said Russia is a democracy. I disagree.
You say the US is a worse democracy than Russia. I agree that our democracy has serious issues, but its far better than Russia fake democracy.

I never said worse, I said equally fucked up.

I get it, the stakes are higher in Russia. But in terms of democracy working, it's not like either place is a perfectly functional democracy. Russia uses physical intimidation. The US uses economic, and only sometimes physical intimidation. But when we do that, they're peaceful demonstrations.

Serious question, who do you think cares more about their average citizens life? Putin, or Biden? Biden is a guy who knows inflation and high fuel prices are killing families, and holding back people just starting to recover from a stagnant economy... And decides that banning Russian oil which will cause more panic than actual effect. Kinda hard to say he gives a shit about us, ya know?

 

[Bruce]

This is Poland's statement on donation of the Migs.

This method shifts some risk of the donation to the US and Germany.

I applaud Poland both for making the donation and sharing the risk with other countries. I hope that our and the German government will make these aircraft available to Ukrainian pilots fully armed and fully fueled.

Statement of the Minister of Foreign Affairs of the Republic of Poland in connection with the statement by the US Secretary of State on providing airplanes to Ukraine - Ministry of Foreign Affairs Republic of Poland - Gov.pl website

www.gov.pl

 

[Bruce]

The US and UK have announced ends to importing Russian oil. Good for the Ukrainian people but will increase oil prices until other producers increase output.

Oil rallies as US and UK announce bans on Russian oil imports – business live

Rolling coverage of the latest economic and financial news

www.theguardian.com

 

[BlkGS]

The US and UK have announced ends to importing Russian oil. Good for the Ukrainian people but will increase oil prices until other producers increase output.

Oil rallies as US and UK announce bans on Russian oil imports – business live

Rolling coverage of the latest economic and financial news

www.theguardian.com

It won't make a damn bit of difference to the Ukrainians. They need a leader who's not content to sit in his bunker until they're all dead. Everyone knows they're not going to repel Russia, at this point he should be begging Russia to accept surrender. That's the end game, at this point, he's just trolling Russia.

It will however, hurt Americans at the pump far more than the actual amount of oil we get from them would dictate.

 

[Jim_in_Delaware]

Guess I'm done with this thread. Definitely getting some pro-Putin, anti-US vibes, from a couple of the members.

Jim

 

[Bruce]

Guess I'm done with this thread. Definitely getting some pro-Putin, anti-US vibes, from a couple of the members.

Jim

Please don't let an extremist minority drive you away.

There is plenty of opportunity to provide factual information without a need to counter the crazy.

 

[adrianp89]

It won't make a damn bit of difference to the Ukrainians. They need a leader who's not content to sit in his bunker until they're all dead. Everyone knows they're not going to repel Russia, at this point he should be begging Russia to accept surrender. That's the end game, at this point, he's just trolling Russia.

It will however, hurt Americans at the pump far more than the actual amount of oil we get from them would dictate.

I am torn here. I agree and I think the action is justified. But it should have been met with another action to force domestic companies to increase output. Not sure the legality of it or how it can be done but you don't do one with out the other.

 

[Bruce]

But it should have been met with another action to force domestic companies to increase output.

US Domestic oil output decreases when prices drop and increases when prices increase. Prices are through the roof so US companies are drilling.

Production increases were already underway. As oil nears $100 a barrel, U.S. drillers get busy in costly shale basins

 

[BlkGS]

Guess I'm done with this thread. Definitely getting some pro-Putin, anti-US vibes, from a couple of the members.

Jim

Just because you don't want Americans to suffer or have any stake in another country doesn't make you pro-Putin or anti-America.

From my perspective, I'm American first and only. We don't need to make our people suffer with higher prices over something that we have no business being involved in, no stake in, and nothing to gain from. Ukraine has it way out, and plenty of other neighbors who don't seem to care enough to do anything. So why should we be the ones to suffer from taking actions? America has no need or business being the world police.

 

[BlkGS]

US Domestic oil output decreases when prices drop and increases when prices increase. Prices are through the roof so US companies are drilling.

Production increases were already underway. As oil nears $100 a barrel, U.S. drillers get busy in costly shale basins

The problem is its reactionary, takes time to start back up, and won't immediately drive prices down.

Prices from this are going to be a result more of speculation and futures investing than the actual reduction in imports.

 

[adrianp89]

US Domestic oil output decreases when prices drop and increases when prices increase. Prices are through the roof so US companies are drilling.

Production increases were already underway. As oil nears $100 a barrel, U.S. drillers get busy in costly shale basins

From what I have read, it seemed American oil companies were not changing their plans for production at all and sticking to their multi-year plan.

 

[Julian]

This is Poland's statement on donation of the Migs.

This method shifts some risk of the donation to the US and Germany.

I applaud Poland both for making the donation and sharing the risk with other countries. I hope that our and the German government will make these aircraft available to Ukrainian pilots fully armed and fully fueled.

Statement of the Minister of Foreign Affairs of the Republic of Poland in connection with the statement by the US Secretary of State on providing airplanes to Ukraine - Ministry of Foreign Affairs Republic of Poland - Gov.pl website

www.gov.pl

The problem with this is what the article I posted called out. Poland is willing to send their MIGs ONLY if we are ready and prepared to send them equivalent aircraft to replace them. We don't have them sitting around waiting to send to Poland.

 

[BlkGS]

From what I have read, it seemed American oil companies were not changing their plans for production at all and sticking to their multi-year plan.

Not surprised. Prices would have to stay high for them to start more production, and they likely expect it to be a short term thing. You don't buy a new car because gas prices are up for a month or 2 (or well, you shouldn't). You don't go through the effort of reopening, recertifying, adding headcount, etc to cover a short term spike in prices. Even if there was good reason to expect this to last, and all the red tape was cut, it'd take months for the flow to start.

Unless the government gives you a crap load of money to make it worthwhile.

 

[BlkGS]

The problem with this is what the article I posted called out. Poland is willing to send their MIGs ONLY if we are ready and prepared to send them equivalent aircraft to replace them. We don't have them sitting around waiting to send to Poland.

Another problem is why the hell should we give hundreds of millions of dollars worth of military equipment to Poland. Sell at a fair price, maybe. But gift? Nuh uh.