Russia Invades Ukraine AND Chinese Aircraft Enter Taiwan Airspace

[RobbieO]

I live within a few miles of Travis AFB in CA. There have been some big ass C-130 planes (or whatever they are), flying over recently. They constantly do touch and go's, but flying over the neighborhood is different. Those planes fly so low and slow, how do they not fall out of the sky. Amazing.

 

[the MfM]

 

[Bruce]

This could be a positive step.

U.S., Poland Look at Providing Soviet-Era Aircraft to Ukraine

The U.S. is exploring a deal in which Poland would send Soviet-era aircraft to Ukraine in return for American F-16 jet fighters, U.S. officials said. Poland’s prime minister’s office dismissed reports of a potential arrangement.

www.wsj.com

 

[zipper]

Now I see why the covid thread is dead!

I’m half way through this one. But having to wait 30 seconds between reporting partisan political comments is really slowing me down.

it seems a certain admin has chosen not to follow the code of conduct.

Imagine how these guys feel.


Credit to one of the admins.

 

[the MfM]

Imagine how these guys feel.

View attachment 172763
Credit to one of the admins.

No one told me it’s Ukraine season. I still have my covid decorations up!

 

[BlkGS]

NATO rapid reaction forces instead!

The Russians haven't touched or entered the Western half of the Ukraine. I see zero issue with NATO charging in there under the same premise as the Russians saying...YUP...we are here to keep the peace! Establish a no fly zone in (at least) Western Ukraine, and give the Ukrainian civilians a place they can evacuate to (besides pouring OUT of their country).

I have zero faith in our government. It is run by politicians who's only concern is getting re-elected next time they are up. So all they do is look at their constituents and say...."What do you think" - which is how Idiocracies begin.

This would ABSOLUTELY start a massive war.

This war is at least 80% about NATO. Russia sees NATO as a credible invasion threat to them, and Ukraine's new leader has been pushing for them to be part of NATO. That would open up a huge section of the European plain that'd make for a fast and easy assault on Russian soil from NATO. Last admin had no faith in the value of NATO, so it wasn't a threat. New adminndecides he has to undo everything the last guy did, all the sudden it makes NATO look like a potential alliance of invaders.

I get that we see NATO as a peace keeping alliance, but as we nearly saw with Turkey, a minor event can trigger a massive response due to how its structured. WW1 got rolling because of similar large scale alliances.

The shortest path to ending this would be Ukraine surrendering, giving up some territory in the east, and agreeing to never join NATO. They'll likely want to put the PM on trial for war crimes in the Donbas, but mainly as a way to remove him from power, because he won't be able to rule effectively anymore anyways. Then, the US should pull out of NATO.

Russia isn't a threat. China is our threat. Russia is a democratic capitalist country that's not that far off from ourselves. They're a little more authoritarian, but we are both democracies run by oligarchs. China is a communist dictatorship and the CCP has racked up a body count in the billion range, between their genocides and proxy wars. They literally violate international law and build fake islands to claim more territory, and claim a sovereign nation as their own. And we are run by such little pansies that we let them, and if anyone says country and Taiwan in the same sentence they are doomed.

We need to worry less about Russia, and more about China. Russia wants security, China wants the world to be dominated by them.

 

[BlkGS]

So how does this all end? Why has the advance on KYIV paused?
- The most viable scenario is a two state solution. Eastern and Western Ukraine, with Eastern Ukraine friendly to Russia.
- Other possibilities include someone taking out or overthrowing Putin?
- Possible but not probable, Putin declares Ukraine is no longer a threat, Ukraine accepts Crimea is Russian, Russians withdraw, and sanctions are lifted.
- Of course, the Russians could over run the entire country.

Ukraine surrenders, agrees to not move towards NATO, a new government that's Russian friendly takes over, and Russian gets the eastern third or so of Ukraine. Sanctions end, peace is restored, and everyone goes back to binging Netflix and not pretending to care about someplace they know nothing about and can't find on a globe.

 

[haknslash]

Wow so now the admins are pulling my posts without breaking the rules. Suck a joke. Explain what I said that was partisan? Calling them a clown? Y’all did sooooooooo much worse to members on here. Gotta love that authoritarian mindset….

 

[Julian]

Ukraine surrenders, agrees to not move towards NATO, a new government that's Russian friendly takes over, and Russian gets the eastern third or so of Ukraine. Sanctions end, peace is restored, and everyone goes back to binging Netflix and not pretending to care about someplace they know nothing about and can't find on a globe.

So we agree to quash democracy and stand by while a military dictatorship murders civilians at will and installs a puppet regime? Wow, never thought I'd hear 'Muricans take this stance....

 

[haknslash]

So we agree to quash democracy and stand by while a military dictatorship murders civilians at will and installs a puppet regime? Wow, never thought I'd hear 'Muricans take this stance....

Curious. What do you think about China and their genocide?

Nobody knows what the truth is behind this Russia and Ukraine ordeal. If you think the media you’re getting info from is all the sudden being honest and factual then I have some killer land to sell you! That doesn’t mean people are agreeing with Russia or Putin. Is what is going on there bad and sucks for civilians? Yes. What does that have to do with the US? They’re not part of NATO, they have a very corrupt history (so does Russia), they’re not even ally to US or even EU for that matter. Why do you want us to go to another senseless war over someone else’s issues?

 

[Julian]

Curious. What do you think about China and they’re genocide?

China is a massive problem too! But this thread is about the Ukraine. I type this on my Samsung (made in South Korea)....in part because I hate Apple, but also in part because iphones are mostly produced in China. Are you willing to dump your iPhone?
China is indeed a more dangerous threat to the US, but sanctions alone on Russia aren't enough. We are pussies if we don't do more to support the Ukraine.

 

[haknslash]

I’m not a pussy. You can speak for yourself if that is what you think we must do or must be. This administration has fucked everything up they have touched and now you trust them to get us into WW3….over this? Over something that has NOTHING to do with us? Yea I’ll pass.

iphone? Shit ....you’d have to dump EVERYTHING you own if you want to distance yourself from China. All that smart devices in your home that you like so much is likely made in China. The clothes you wear are likely made in China and if not, I’m sure the threads are made there. I’m in manufacturing man. I see this shit every single day. Pisses me off we have let our country be sold out from being a producer and exported of products. It didn’t happen overnight of course but we just let it continue to build and strengthen their country to no end. At some point we will have to acknowledge the big elephant in the room that is China. Hopefully not with this administration though because they can’t fight themselves out of a wet paper sack. No that is not partisan but calling it like it is based off everything you see wrong today on their watch.

 

[BlkGS]

So we agree to quash democracy and stand by while a military dictatorship murders civilians at will and installs a puppet regime? Wow, never thought I'd hear 'Muricans take this stance....

Democracy ain't that simple.

First off, Russia is a democracy. The provinces in question in Ukraine voted to leave Ukraine. Ukraine said no, but knew they couldn't control them, so left them under a semi autonomy but also littered with military troops. So what democracy are we supposed to protect? The one whose votes didn't count, or the one that's bigger? This is a situation where democracy happened in a way that is inconvenient to how we think it should work.

US involvement would only make this worse.

 

[Julian]

Democracy ain't that simple.

First off, Russia is a democracy. The provinces in question in Ukraine voted to leave Ukraine. Ukraine said no, but knew they couldn't control them, so left them under a semi autonomy but also littered with military troops. So what democracy are we supposed to protect? The one whose votes didn't count, or the one that's bigger? This is a situation where democracy happened in a way that is inconvenient to how we think it should work.

US involvement would only make this worse.

Russia is a democracy? No....not really.

Are Russia’s elections fair?

From controlled opposition to ballot irregularities, allegations of vote rigging have dogged Putin for years

www.theweek.co.uk

There are buttloads of articles that make all the same points as above.

Calling it a democracy is laughable.

 

[BlkGS]

Russia is a democracy? No....not really.

Are Russia’s elections fair?

From controlled opposition to ballot irregularities, allegations of vote rigging have dogged Putin for years

www.theweek.co.uk

There are buttloads of articles that make all the same points as above.

Calling it a democracy is laughable.

There's butt loads of people that would say our elections aren't fair either.

Most of our news nowdays is spread by for profit companies helmed by billionaires with egos. They all have a cause and a bias. They use their power over information to give people a truth to believe, while the power of algorithms divides and radicalized people.

We have a ruling class that decides what is appropriate to be said and by whom
Celebrities literally pretending to kill the last president was OK, but people saying "Please read https://jetboaters.net/threads/politics-religion-and-other-volatile-topics.1801/" is considered crude now. If they don't like what you say, you get shut down. Let's not forget that the ruling technocrats literally SILENCED THE SITTING US PRESIDENT. Ignoring if he should have been using them as a platform in the first place, they made a very loud statement that they will silence ANYONE.

This is all ignoring the fact that US elections are effectively bought rather than won...

 

[Julian]

I’m not a pussy. You can speak for yourself if that is what you think we must do or must be. This administration has fucked everything up they have touched and now you trust them to get us into WW3….over this? Over something that has NOTHING to do with us? Yea I’ll pass.

iphone? Shit ....you’d have to dump EVERYTHING you own if you want to distance yourself from China. All that smart devices in your home that you like so much is likely made in China. The clothes you wear are likely made in China and if not, I’m sure the threads are made there. I’m in manufacturing man. I see this shit every single day. Pisses me off we have let our country be sold out from being a producer and exported of products. It didn’t happen overnight of course but we just let it continue to build and strengthen their country to no end. At some point we will have to acknowledge the big elephant in the room that is China. Hopefully not with this administration though because they can’t fight themselves out of a wet paper sack. No that is not partisan but calling it like it is based off everything you see wrong today on their watch.

Partisan again....but tired of moderating.

Lots of people saying this administration is weak, inferring the last was strong. So what would the last administration be doing differently right now. I'm genuinely curious. And would you support a military response from a republican president vs a Democrat? Seems absurd, but perhaps that is why I'm a little baffled right now.

Our two party system is terrible (I've said this repeatedly) It is driving division when we need bipartisan strength.

No easy answers for any of these problems, but I still remain convinced that sanctions alone aren't enough...so in that regard, agree that our government is being weak and is letting Putin push us around. Bold and decisive action is needed.

 

[haknslash]

Partisan again....but tired of moderating.

Lots of people saying this administration is weak, inferring the last was strong. So what would the last administration be doing differently right now. I'm genuinely curious. And would you support a military response from a republican president vs a Democrat? Seems absurd, but perhaps that is why I'm a little baffled right now.

Our two party system is terrible (I've said this repeatedly) It is driving division when we need bipartisan strength.

No easy answers for any of these problems, but I still remain convinced that sanctions alone aren't enough...so in that regard, agree that our government is being weak and is letting Putin push us around. Bold and decisive action is needed.

Julian, we are weak. Has nothing to do with past administrations other than I suppose to use them as a gauge for measuring. It’s not partisan. I am not part of any registered party. I’ve voted for all sides. I’m just calling a spade a spade or if the shoe fits kind of thing. There is NO WAY anyone can feel comfortable with this administration calling VERY important shots like this. I’m sorry but that is how it is and the non-partisan approval ratings reflect this. That doesn’t have anything to do with the capital D or R letter next to their name. It this was Obama, Trump, Bush, Regan administration acting to this level of incompetence I’d be calling them out the same.

 

[Bruce]

@haknslash, I am not tired of moderating. You can post without inserting the political BS. Show us that you can do it.

Getting back on topic

https://www.navytimes.com/news/your-navy/2022/03/04/uss-truman-aircraft-join-buildup-of-nato-air-policing-patrols-over-eastern-europe/

 

[Bruce]

Not a complete block but perhaps an action that will bring awareness to Russians who travel or shop internationally.

Visa, Mastercard suspend operations in Russia over Ukraine invasion

The move by the payments firms could mean more disruption for Russians who are bracing for hardship.

www.reuters.com

 

[BlkGS]

It sure does seem that all the actions being taken are against Russian citizens and companies, so they will likely have the exact opposite effect intended. They'll likely come across as western aggression towards Russians than anything else.

How would Americans react if a foreign power attempted to shut them down from the world economy because we did something they didn't like. Imagine if when JOHN Cena said he was going to the country of Taiwan of China had reacted by halting sales of any Chinese goods in the US, how would it come across? An aggressive trade war action against the US, or payback for John Cena?

We are going about this all wrong to actually sway Putin, as are the rest of the west, because they don't want to piss off Russia and that supply of gas they need.