Russia Invades Ukraine AND Chinese Aircraft Enter Taiwan Airspace

[mwalker4]

In my opinion we really should

1. enforce a no fly zone
2. Provide cruise missiles at the border that we teach the Ukrainians how to target and launch
3. Move the Nato rapid reaction forces into Western Ukraine as "peacekeepers" just like Putin has.

I hope we are cautious. If we were going to get involved at that level we needed to tell the Russians that prior to the invasion or at least indicate it was a possibility. You could be talking a high likelihood of direct USA - Russia conflict for the first time.

 

[Bruce]

Not that it suggests that US or NATO forces stepping into Ukraine would not result in Putin going nuclear but there have been many incidents of the US or USSR shooting each others planes down.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air-to-air_combat_losses_between_the_Soviet_Union_and_the_United_States

One of the most recent incidents of combat between US and Russian forces was up to 300 Russian "contractors" killed in Syria.

Insight - Russian toll in Syria battle was 300 killed and wounded: sources

About 300 men working for a Kremlin-linked Russian private military firm were either killed or injured in Syria last week, according to three sources familiar with the matter.

www.reuters.com

Communication was established between US and Russian forces today to try to avoid shooting at each other.

New U.S.-Russia military hotline as Ukraine war rages

The Pentagon has established a newhotline with Russia's ministry of defense to prevent "miscalculation, military incidents and escalation" in the region as Russia's invasion of Ukraine advances, a U.S. official told Reuters on Thursday.

www.reuters.com

 

[mwalker4]

Not that it suggests that US or NATO forces stepping into Ukraine would not result in Putin going nuclear but there have been many incidents of the US or USSR shooting each others planes down, per the Secretary of Defense.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air-to-air_combat_losses_between_the_Soviet_Union_and_the_United_States

One of the most recent incidents of combat between US and Russian forces was up to 300 Russian "contractors" killed in Syria.

Insight - Russian toll in Syria battle was 300 killed and wounded: sources

About 300 men working for a Kremlin-linked Russian private military firm were either killed or injured in Syria last week, according to three sources familiar with the matter.

www.reuters.com

Communication was established between US and Russian forces today to try to avoid shooting at each other.

New U.S.-Russia military hotline as Ukraine war rages

The Pentagon has established a newhotline with Russia's ministry of defense to prevent "miscalculation, military incidents and escalation" in the region as Russia's invasion of Ukraine advances, a U.S. official told Reuters on Thursday.

www.reuters.com

Not the same. No fly zone would likely result in the intentional combat between our aircraft.

 

[Bruce]

Not the same. No fly zone would likely result in the intentional combat between our aircraft.

We had that over Vietnam but that was with the USSR just before Putin joined the KGB.

Turkey shooting down an Su-24 by Turkey in 2015 may be the most recent shootdown of a Russian aircraft by a NATO country.

 

[mwalker4]

We had that over Vietnam but that was with the USSR just before Putin joined the KGB.

Turkey shooting down an Su-24 by Turkey in 2015 may be the most recent shootdown of a Russian aircraft by a NATO country.

Again, not the same. USSR direct involvement in combat in Vietnam was not acknowledged at the time. It is believed some instances of Soviet (ironically Ukrainian) anti aircraft crews shooting at US aircraft. A few others instances of "advisors" actively involved in fighting. Regardless of any obscure examples of cold conflict turning a bit warm, it is not the same. I spent 4 years stationed in the Missile Warning Center war gaming the end of the world each shift. Many scenarios started with this type of situation. I would hope it stays as scenarios. Regardless of your need to scour the internet data, I will stick with we should be very cautious.

 

[Bruce]

@mwalker4, I agree that we should be cautious.

Thank you for your service.

 

[Bruce]

If true, this is excellent news.

Ukraine military kills a top Russian general

Ukrainian defense forces say they killed Russian Maj. Gen. Andrei Sukhovetsky in combat earlier this week.

www.foxnews.com

 

[Julian]

I get that my thoughts would be a major escalation.....but sanctions alone are a weak response to huge scale invasion of a democratic nation.

 

[zipper]

Just saw a similar news story on NBC.

Anonymous Claims More Than 2,500 Targets Hacked in First Week of #OpRussia Offensive - HS Today

Anonymous hackers said that they're now battling Russian disinformation and trolls, including a hit list to report their social media accounts.

www.hstoday.us

 

[mwalker4]

I get that my thoughts would be a major escalation.....but sanctions alone are a weak response to huge scale invasion of a democratic nation.

Agreed, but the US spent a few weeks telling everyone what we were going to do. If we were willing to escalate, we should have let that be known before the invasion. This is how we got into the Korean War. We indicated South Korea was not of strategic importance.

I'm hoping things are happening which we don't know about. As a Master Sargeant once told me, "Lieutenant let me tell you about plausible deniability". In this case I'm trusting the experts in government who know many things we do not, to do the right things.

 

[Bruce]

I believe there are two nuclear plants with six reactors still under Ukrainian control. They could be good locations for UN peacekeepers to prevent conflict around those reactors although I doubt that the UN would be able to act fast enough.

Russia seizes Europe's biggest nuclear plant in 'reckless' assault

 

[mwalker4]

I believe there are two nuclear plants with six reactors still under Ukrainian control. They could be good locations for UN peacekeepers to prevent conflict around those reactors although I doubt that the UN would be able to act fast enough.

Russia seizes Europe's biggest nuclear plant in 'reckless' assault

Russia is on the Security Council with veto vote.

 

[Julian]

I believe there are two nuclear plants with six reactors still under Ukrainian control. They could be good locations for UN peacekeepers to prevent conflict around those reactors although I doubt that the UN would be able to act fast enough.

Russia seizes Europe's biggest nuclear plant in 'reckless' assault

NATO rapid reaction forces instead!

The Russians haven't touched or entered the Western half of the Ukraine. I see zero issue with NATO charging in there under the same premise as the Russians saying...YUP...we are here to keep the peace! Establish a no fly zone in (at least) Western Ukraine, and give the Ukrainian civilians a place they can evacuate to (besides pouring OUT of their country).

I have zero faith in our government. It is run by politicians who's only concern is getting re-elected next time they are up. So all they do is look at their constituents and say...."What do you think" - which is how Idiocracies begin.

 

[Julian]

But it seems we aren't heading that way, and we are being pretty shortsighted:

NATO rejects Ukraine no-fly zone, unhappy Zelenskiy says this means more bombing

NATO on Friday rejected Ukrainian calls to help it protect its skies from Russian missiles and warplanes, wary of being dragged into Moscow's war on its neighbour, but Europe promised more sanctions to punish Russian President Vladimir Putin.

www.reuters.com

 

[tabbibus]

Makes sense.

 

[HangOutdoors]

As long as Putin keeps blackmailing and using the nuclear threat this will continue on. Once he takes Ukraine, which is inevitable. Then the Russian people will complain about all the sanctions and he will continue blackmailing with nuclear threat.

Unless he is removed, or assassinated this will all play out very badly. Perhaps it is time to start ridding the world of people such as him, if it is a war so be it. War is inevitable....... I wish there was another alternative.

 

[Bruce]

Good to see that NATO is increasing the number of fighters in the air over Europe. I assume we are doing the same over Alaska.

https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/2022/03/04/around-the-clock-nato-air-patrols-fly-to-keep-russia-at-bay/

 

[zipper]

Good to see that NATO is increasing the number of fighters in the air over Europe. I assume we are doing the same over Alaska.

https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/2022/03/04/around-the-clock-nato-air-patrols-fly-to-keep-russia-at-bay/

I bet they are. I hear the VTANG fighter jets overhead constantly while out in the woods. Been that way the last few weeks. One of their FB posts in the last 2 weeks. That is all I will say…Loose lips…

 

[the MfM]

Now I see why the covid thread is dead!

I’m half way through this one. But having to wait 30 seconds between reporting partisan political comments is really slowing me down.

it seems a certain admin has chosen not to follow the code of conduct.

 

[Txbred]

Now I see why the covid thread is dead!

I’m half way through this one. But having to wait 30 seconds between reporting partisan political comments is really slowing me down.

it seems a certain admin has chosen not to follow the code of conduct.

?Shhh.. they're watching......