The throttle/shifter Yamaha SHOULD have put on our boats...

[gmtech16450yz]

Ok I said I was gonna do it, it's done! The greatest, most over-engineered throttle/shifter assembly put on a Yamaha. And probably the most time consuming mod to my boat so far!

I haven't actually taken the boat out yet to try it, but it looks like it should work like I wanted it to. Here's some pictures of the stock throttle to clearly show why they suck. lol.

This is in the neutral position, throttle at idle, bucket at neutral.

This is to the first detent, the bucket is opening towards forward, but the throttle is still at idle.



This is at the point the throttle starts to open. There is no detent here, you really have no idea where this spot is when moving the levers. If you tighten up the drag, you can feel the throttle when it starts to move, but it's still often a surprise when you first open the throttle. Unsafe and actually dangerous if you ask me. It was literally the first issue I had with my boat. The first time I went to pull away from the dock, I ended up giving it way too much throttle and darn near launched the boat into the dock.



And lastly, here's full throttle. These last two pictures show the total range of movement to control throttle from idle to wide open. Pretty narrow huh? Horribly narrow. Stupidly narrow. haha.



I'm going to break this up into a few different posts because there's gonna be a bunch of pictures...

#coolmod

 

[gmtech16450yz]

Ok so my first step was getting a better throttle/shifter. It was between Morse/Teleflex, Livorsi and Gaffrig. Livorsi was really nice but really expensive. (~$1600) Gaffrig units looked ok, but maybe a little on the lower quality side. Morse/Teleflex has been making shifters for a very long time. My dad actually worked with Morse in the '70's to design a shifter that is still used on aircraft ground equipment to this day. For that reason, I figured it HAD to be Morse/Teleflex.

I found an eBay auction for a new but open box Teleflex unit. It was supposed to go in Nick Barron's Hallett 340 before he died. I ended up getting it for less than half the price of a new in box unit so I was happy. I didn't like the cheesy little inserts in the handles, so I made some aluminum inserts. I also embedded neodymium magnets in the sides close to each other so they tend to "stick" together a little bit. That should help keep the buckets and throttles between the two engines "synced" better but still easily move separately. I also didn't like the plate area of the unit, plus it didn't fit the opening in the boat very well on the sides. So I machined a trim plate to go around it.

I also found that the bucket movement wasn't totally linear. So when the shifter handles are in the center, it's not actually at the "neutral" position. So I determined that the shifter travel had to be more like 1/3 for reverse and 2/3's for forward. This would also have the benefit of giving even more control over forward bucket movement. Trolling speed control should be amazing! So to accomplish that, I had to fill the center holes in the Morse unit and drill new holes. That ended up making the "center" shifter position true neutral. The shifter also has neutral safety switches. And of course, they had to be moved too! dammit. Then after making some custom clevis pivots for the cable ends, it was ready to install.

 

[gmtech16450yz]

So the final step was actually the most important and vital. The new throttle control has more than twice the range of movement of the stock levers. Here's a picture showing the difference. The port engine throttle has been modified correctly. The starboard side is still stock. These levers, as far as the engine goes, are both at wide open throttle. The starboard lever will not go any further.



If I left them both like that, only using less than half of the available range of this new control, I wouldn't be getting the increase in resolution in throttle control. THIS is the step that is missed in any of the swap attempts I've seen, which is only a couple it looks like. This is huge.

So here's what I did. I first thought about ditching the cables all together and mounting the position sensors directly on the control, but decided not to do that for several reasons. I don't think the end result would have been better, I think it actually would have been really bad. Anyway, I decided to modify the "pulley" on the throttle lever position sensors. I ended up increasing the cable travel needed to go from idle to wide open throttle by more than double. That let the control levers move through their entire range of movement. So I now have minute and accurate control over throttle opening, considerably more than double the resolution or movement range on the actual levers. Like I said, I haven't taken the boat out yet, but the difference in just moving the throttles is huge. They are also incredibly smooth and stay EXACTLY where you put them. I can't wait to try them out on the water!

 

[swatski]

Ok I said I was gonna do it, it's done! The greatest, most over-engineered throttle/shifter assembly put on a Yamaha. And probably the most time consuming mod to my boat so far!

I haven't actually taken the boat out yet to try it, but it looks like it should work like I wanted it to. Here's some pictures of the stock throttle to clearly show why they suck. lol.

This is in the neutral position, throttle at idle, bucket at neutral.
View attachment 66332
This is to the first detent, the bucket is opening towards forward, but the throttle is still at idle.

View attachment 66333

This is at the point the throttle starts to open. There is no detent here, you really have no idea where this spot is when moving the levers. If you tighten up the drag, you can feel the throttle when it starts to move, but it's still often a surprise when you first open the throttle. Unsafe and actually dangerous if you ask me. It was literally the first issue I had with my boat. The first time I went to pull away from the dock, I ended up giving it way too much throttle and darn near launched the boat into the dock.

View attachment 66335

And lastly, here's full throttle. These last two pictures show the total range of movement to control throttle from idle to wide open. Pretty narrow huh? Horribly narrow. Stupidly narrow. haha.

View attachment 66334

I'm going to break this up into a few different posts because there's gonna be a bunch of pictures...

That is exactly right. These OEM throttle levers feel like they belong on an old rental I/O, don't they?

You totally hit the nail on the head!
If I could machine like you do, I might not have needed to do the reflash, LOL.
Albeit need to read your other posts and see what it feels like when you do the sea trial, if these work more linear, but they should!

--

 

[swatski]

So the final step was actually the most important and vital. The new throttle control has more than twice the range of movement of the stock levers. Here's a picture showing the difference. The port engine throttle has been modified correctly. The starboard side is still stock. These levers, as far as the engine goes, are both at wide open throttle. The starboard lever will not go any further.

View attachment 66347

If I left them both like that, only using less than half of the available range of this new control, I wouldn't be getting the increase in resolution in throttle control. THIS is the step that is missed in any of the swap attempts I've seen, which is only a couple it looks like. This is huge.

So here's what I did. I first thought about ditching the cables all together and mounting the position sensors directly on the control, but decided not to do that for several reasons. I don't think the end result would have been better, I think it actually would have been really bad. Anyway, I decided to modify the "pulley" on the throttle lever position sensors. I ended up increasing the cable travel needed to go from idle to wide open throttle by more than double. That let the control levers move through their entire range of movement. So I now have minute and accurate control over throttle opening, considerably more than double the resolution or movement range on the actual levers. Like I said, I haven't taken the boat out yet, but the difference in just moving the throttles is huge. They are also incredibly smooth and stay EXACTLY where you put them. I can't wait to try them out on the water!

View attachment 66349View attachment 66348 View attachment 66351 View attachment 66350 View attachment 66352 View attachment 66353

View attachment 66354 View attachment 66356 View attachment 66357 View attachment 66355

@gmtech16450yz WOW!!!
This is an absolutely brilliant mod!!!!

I am floored. I was wondering how you would solve the issue with the increased throttle cable travel - looks like you increased the diameter of the APS wheel (pulley), correct?

This is so awesome.

--

 

[Beachbummer]

Congratulations, NICE upgrade!!!

For the 230 series the throttle control has a higher resolution out of the box, as the throttle assembly had a couple of nuts to select how long you want the range to be, so I got away without your very fine mod on the throttle sensor end. (and good thing, because I don't have a lathe like you do, that is NICE)

They are the very best upgrade you can make to your boat!!! I feel like a religious nutcase trying to save souls when I pitch it to others, because I feel so strongly that it is such an amazing and worthwhile update, but it can't be described how much better this is...

so I'll try the religious spin.
REPENT! Enjoy the GLORY of the correct throttle/shifter assembly!! Leave the clunckness behind and accept the new shifter as the rightful placeholder of the fine throttle control.

LOL..Anyway, Very nice looking upgrade, and so functional too!!

 

[swatski]

Congratulations, NICE upgrade!!!

For the 230 series the throttle control has a higher resolution out of the box, as the throttle assembly had a couple of nuts to select how long you want the range to be, so I got away without your very fine mod on the throttle sensor end. (and good thing, because I don't have a lathe like you do, that is NICE)

They are the very best upgrade you can make to your boat!!! I feel like a religious nutcase trying to save souls when I pitch it to others, because I feel so strongly that it is such an amazing and worthwhile update, but it can't be described how much better this is...

so I'll try the religious spin.
REPENT! Enjoy the GLORY of the correct throttle/shifter assembly!! Leave the clunckness behind and accept the new shifter as the rightful placeholder of the fine throttle control.

LOL..Anyway, Very nice looking upgrade, and so functional too!!

Well, yeah, but as you yourself pointed out - not everyone has the equipment and the skills to make that happen!

I was quietly hoping someone would come up with a kit for a nice aftermarket throttle upgrade, but it's not looking too promising.

And that is why the less gifted among us are stuck with the only other option: a reflash. Such as the Maptuner X RIVA, it is not perfect but makes a HUGE difference as compared to the factory throttle response. Even if you forget the power/torque gains, just the remapping of the APS response - it's the bomb.

I wish there was a way to elongate the throttle travel - without going religious, or becoming a professional machinist!

--

 

[Julian]

And that is why the less gifted among us are stuck with the only other option: a reflash.

Or go out and buy an E-Series boat! LOL The old throttles never really bothered me...I got used to them I guess....but when I switched to the E-Series throttles I fell in love!!!

@gmtech16450yz awesome job with this! Looks fantastic! Looks like you have a fire supression system in the engine compartment....did you write that up? Do you have fume detectors in there?

 

[Beachbummer]

The gaffrig set up almost bolts on. The throttle levers have multiple attachment points, and use about 85% of the available range out of the box on my boat. It's a very doable project. My fabrication was limited to drilling holes in some thumbscrews to be used as pivot points in the connection to the cables.

Worth looking into.

 

[Betik]

Or go out and buy an E-Series boat! LOL

I don't understand why e-series throttles cannot be swapped on non Eseries boats though.

 

[swatski]

The gaffrig set up almost bolts on. The throttle levers have multiple attachment points, and use about 85% of the available range out of the box on my boat. It's a very doable project. My fabrication was limited to drilling holes in some thumbscrews to be used as pivot points in the connection to the cables.

Worth looking into.

Hah! That sounds much better. And I guess if the cable/lever travel distance can be increased by just supersizing the pulleys it may not be so bad.

--

 

[swatski]

I don't understand why e-series throttles cannot be swapped on non Eseries boats though.

It can be done. But there are at least two issues that make it prohibitive. (yes, I looked into this)
One is the cost, which is about 8k in OEM parts required - alone. The other is that some kind of a software reflash would be required for the Connext and the ECU to function properly, and I'm not sure if it's offered.
Besides that, the OEM E-series do have some funky features that make it probably not worth upgrading for the huge cost (and effort).

This is one of those upgrades where one would be better off buying a new boat.

--

 

[Mainah]

I don't understand why e-series throttles cannot be swapped on non Eseries boats though.

The e series throttles are 5 volt POTs that have the same 6 pin out (different connector though) as the aps. Someone could buy just the throttles and run wires back to the aps units bypassing them altogether. Ridesteady could even be wired in.

The harder part becomes bucket control. There is a seperate module that takes the throttle inputs and interprets them into foward and reverse in order to control the bucket servos. A couple of solid state 5v POT to PWM IC boards could handle that duty. All that would be left is rigging up some heavy duty servos or linear actuators to the bucket cables.

So short story is that it is costly ($700 -$1000 I would guess) and time consuming but doable. IMO too costly and time consuming for the benefit. After seeing everything @gmtech16450yz has done though perhaps someone is up to it.

As usual great work that makes me jealous out of @gmtech16450yz.

 

[Ilmmct]

@gmtech16450yz, wow that is impressive! Very cool look and functionality.

 

[Beachbummer]

I dont have a 1.8 boat, but that extra pulley looks as if it could be 3d printed too... Just a thought. (3d printing is very inexpensive!!!)

 

[gmtech16450yz]

Thanks guys!

I considered the Gaffrig because it did look like it was an easier mod, but for me the extra work to increase the cable travel itself was worth going that direction. Increasing the leverage at the APS itself instead of reducing the leverage at the lever end nets a better end result, but obviously is way more work and not for everyone.

I also thought about buying the E Series control, I was about 95% sure I could have made it work, but again I didn't feel the end result would have been worth it. The advantage to having separate throttle and bucket controls "should" be awesome. (Should because it's all theory for me at this point!) I think I'm really going to like having that control during docking especially. And having such a wide throttle control range and increased forward bucket control also should make the electronic cruise/no wake buttons almost unnecessary. I should have plenty of throttle and bucket control to increase speeds half a mile per hour at a time if I want to. The bucket control even on the stock setup is vital when trolling or doing no wake slow stuff. Think about setting the throttles at a steady 1500rpm or so and simply controlling speed with the buckets alone. Should be nice! Trying to control throttle/rpms down to hundreds, or even 500rpm changes is super hard on the stock controls.

And I know, the aftermarket systems can control speeds more accurately, but they cost money and are an added piece of hardware to keep track of. I'm the kind of guy that didn't even use the cruise tap up- tap down function that much because I'd rather simply move the throttles back or forth to make the speed change I want. It's almost impossible to do with the stock throttles though. Funny, maybe if Yamaha put "real" throttles like this on their boats they wouldn't need to come up with additional solutions to try to "fix" the problem of poor rpm/speed control? Yamaha, are you listening? lol. Nope, they obviously don't care.

 

[gmtech16450yz]

I dont have a 1.8 boat, but that extra pulley looks as if it could be 3d printed too... Just a thought. (3d printing is very inexpensive!!!)

Absolutely! Although I'm not sure how durable it would be, certainly not as durable as aluminum.

My son is a Mechanical Engineer and has access to a really expensive 3D printer at his work. My problem is I'm old school and don't like numbers. haha. I don't even have a DRO (digital read out) on my mill or lathe because I do better just eyeballing things. I literally make parts like this without any plans or exact measurements. I just come up with an idea in my head and it comes out of my hands. lol. You can't do that with a 3D printer. So I don't have one and probably never will. I'll leave those ideas to my son!

 

[swatski]

The e series throttles are 5 volt POTs that have the same 6 pin out (different connector though) as the aps. Someone could buy just the throttles and run wires back to the aps units bypassing them altogether. Ridesteady could even be wired in.

The E-series do not have APS modules...

So short story is that it is costly ($700 -$1000 I would guess) and time consuming but doable. IMO too costly and time consuming for the benefit.

What they call control cable assembly contains a "control unit boat control". That control assembly (throttle levers/box gizmo) alone retails for close to 3k if you add all the electronic and non-electronic parts...

The ECU is different, I'm not sure if that's hardware, software, or both. And so on...

Not trying to argue but I have looked into this, and actually talked to my dealer about doing it at the time of purchase - I wanted to upgrade the AR boat right then (to E-throttles). He kind of priced that for me and the parts alone came close to 8k...

Of course it would be far less with aftermarket connectors and wiring, possibly, but then I would rather go the @gmtech16450yz route anyway.

Here is the funny part:
The reason I was interested in E-throttles alone was - I didn't want the big tower that comes with the E-series boats. I was convinced those would be failing badly! Could I had been more wrong???!!!
Yes, I was predicting an Armageddon Bimini crossing with those new boats...
So much for me knowing shit, LOL.

--

 

[swatski]

The bucket control even on the stock setup is vital when trolling or doing no wake slow stuff. Think about setting the throttles at a steady 1500rpm or so and simply controlling speed with the buckets alone. Should be nice! Trying to control throttle/rpms down to hundreds, or even 500rpm changes is super hard on the stock controls.

That is money!!!

I'm very envious! That independent bucket control is just a sweet, sweet feature for what you can do with it.

I do not think, however, even with your new setup one would be able to eliminate the need for a real cruise control, for at least two reasons.

For one, any serious water/tow sports/activity basically requires a GPS cruise control that can automatically vary the RPM to maintain speed. Ramping is more optional, and your new system would probably make it better/easier that any electronic ramping - if you can easily make subtle adjustments based on conditions.

Second, as far as cruising (which is best done at constant RPM in boats) - your throttles should do it extremely well under most circumstances. However, there is a point when turning a knob (such as in the @Ridesteady controller) is just easier to control with your hand - when pounding serious waves. Making small adjustments with the levers, keeping the throttles synched to the same RPM can be just very difficult, if not impossible, in serious chop.

(And that's just one more place where the RideSteady absolutely shines with the electronic engine synch. )

--

 

[Mainah]

The E-series do not have APS modules...


What they call control cable assembly contains a "control unit boat control". That control assembly (throttle levers/box gizmo) alone retails for close to 3k if you add all the electronic and non-electronic parts...

The ECU is different, I'm not sure if that's hardware, software, or both. And so on...

Not trying to argue but I have looked into this, and actually talked to my dealer about doing it at the time of purchase - I wanted to upgrade the AR boat right then (to E-throttles). He kind of priced that for me and the parts alone came close to 8k...

Of course it would be far less with aftermarket connectors and wiring, possibly, but then I would rather go the @gmtech16450yz route anyway.

Here is the funny part:
The reason I was interested in E-throttles alone was - I didn't want the big tower that comes with the E-series boats. I was convinced those would be failing badly! Could I had been more wrong???!!!
Yes, I was predicting an Armageddon Bimini crossing with those new boats...
So much for me knowing shit, LOL.

--

I was referring to just buying the e series throttles alone as a replacement for the aps on the non eseries. The aps is just a 2 channel 5v ref potentiometer for each engine. The e series throttles are exactly that as well prior to plugging into the BCU computer (the wiring diagram confirms this). From there a custom controller and servos would be cheaper for the buckets as a replacment for the bcu and e series bucket servos.