The Vaccine

[Bruce]

So who is the science denier now - the FDA or CD(rent)C?

Maybe the surgeon general should have the final say.

The FDA authorization and CDC recommendation are in agreement. If you listen to the press conference from today all were in agreement.

Their actions seem to be a reasonable compromise.

Overall we need the unvaccinated + uninfected population to get vaccinated more than we need third doses.

 

[tabbibus]

The FDA authorization and CDC recommendation are in agreement. If you listen to the press conference from today all were in agreement.

Their actions seem to be a reasonable compromise.

Overall we need the unvaccinated + uninfected population to get vaccinated more than we need third doses.

True story. Except man... That remaining batch of unvaxxed is one tough crowd

 

[Evil Sports]

When did the previously infected start being considered a statistic or part of the discussion.

 

[Bruce]

When did the previously infected start being considered a statistic or part of the discussion.

They always have been a factor in herd immunity. The category where you want to avoid growth.

 

[Evil Sports]

But no one was accounting for them in discussions or charts

 

[Bruce]

But no one was accounting for them in discussions or charts

Previously infected has always been part of the herd immunity equation. The issues are that we really do not know how strong that immunity is, strength likely varies greatly between people and it would be irresponsible to encourage getting sick to gain immune response. We know that people have contracted SARS-CoV-2 multiple times and there is compelling evidence of benefit from vaccination after recovering from infection.

This article from March is one that discusses it. Before vaccines existed there was discussion of herd immunity from infection alone.

Can Vaccination and Infection Rates Add Up to Reach Covid Herd Immunity?

A financial research firm offered its take on when states might be reaching the sought-after status of herd immunity. But some experts say the analysis is oversimplified.

khn.org

And one from December of 2020.

On the road to herd immunity, vaccination speeds the journey

Not all vaccine skeptics have a physician in the family to guide them. Most don't personally know someone who works inside a hospital who can describe the horror and devastation this virus has wrought.

www.statnews.com

 

[the MfM]

New Johnson & Johnson data shows second shot boosts antibodies and protection against COVID-19 – but one dose is still strong against delta variant

Public health officials have been waiting for good data before making any decisions about booster shots for people who received Johnson & Johnson's Janssen COVID-19 vaccine. AP Photo/Mary AltafferOn Sept 22, 2021, Johnson & Johnson released data that answers two questions many people have likely...

www.yahoo.com

 

[Julian]

Interesting article on super immunity (from having both covid disease and mRNA vaccine):

New Studies Find Evidence Of 'Superhuman' Immunity To COVID-19 In Some Individuals

That's how some scientists describe the findings of a series of studies looking at the antibodies created by individuals who were infected by the coronavirus and then had an mRNA vaccine.

www.npr.org

 

[Adrian @ JB Solutions]

Finally some common sense:

Natural immunity emerges as potential legal challenge to federal COVID-19 vaccination mandates

The argument that natural immunity against COVID-19 is an alternative to vaccination is emerging as a legal challenge to mandatory vaccination policies.

www.yahoo.com

Love this part “The 673,676-person Israeli study found that people who recovered from prior SARS-CoV-2 infection and remained unvaccinated were 27 times less likely to experience symptomatic reinfection from the Delta variant when compared to those who had not been infected and received two doses of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine. The study also found that previously infected people who received a single dose of the vaccine received additional protection against the Delta variant.

 

[haknslash]

Ran across this video a week or so ago and meant to post it. Seems like this is good lung exercise and things to do in case you get the virus.

 

[Jim_in_Delaware]

Finally some common sense:

Natural immunity emerges as potential legal challenge to federal COVID-19 vaccination mandates

The argument that natural immunity against COVID-19 is an alternative to vaccination is emerging as a legal challenge to mandatory vaccination policies.

www.yahoo.com

Love this part “The 673,676-person Israeli study found that people who recovered from prior SARS-CoV-2 infection and remained unvaccinated were 27 times less likely to experience symptomatic reinfection from the Delta variant when compared to those who had not been infected and received two doses of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine. The study also found that previously infected people who received a single dose of the vaccine received additional protection against the Delta variant.

Also, from the same article that you linked:

"Some recent research, which looks at hundreds of thousands of cases in Israel and has yet to undergo peer review, indicates that natural immunity might be at least as effective as vaccination in certain people. Other peer-reviewed research cited by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), which looks at dozens of cases in the U.S., indicated that certain people who suffered from a COVID-19 infection did not create antibodies (ie, natural immunity) at all."

Jim

 

[Adrian @ JB Solutions]

Dozens vs 670,000. ?‍

 

[Jim_in_Delaware]

Dozens vs 670,000. ?‍

Except you also seem to have missed the part that the study that you quote also has not yet been peer reviewed. Doesn't mean the study data is valid. It may be or it may not be. That is the whole point of a peer review of the data.

Jim

 

[Julian]

Dozens vs 670,000. ?‍

There is not enough data (yet) to tell us how many people who test positive for Covid don't create anti bodies for the disease. No point in even guessing....but it seems to be > zero. Giving those people a false sense of protection would be bad for their lives. We do know that vaccines give people protection. And it does appear that vaccines PLUS natural immunity are even better protection.

 

[WREKS]

Wife and I got the Pfizer Booster Saturday. No issues.

 

[Adrian @ JB Solutions]

There is not enough data (yet) to tell us how many people who test positive for Covid don't create anti bodies for the disease. No point in even guessing....but it seems to be > zero. Giving those people a false sense of protection would be bad for their lives. We do know that vaccines give people protection. And it does appear that vaccines PLUS natural immunity are even better protection.

The study showed people who recovered from COVID, not whose body created anti-bodies, were 27x more likely to be protected against the Delta variant compared to those who are fully vaccinated. That is a tremendous number.

While yes there are people who may not create anti-bodies, and I am no scientist, but common sense tells me a strong majority of people would create anti-bodies. That is how our body works.

 

[MidnightRider]

So natural immunity isn't 100% across the board. Guess what neither are the vaccines. Yet the mainstream is so bullish on vaccines and so bearish on natural immunity. It seems counter intuitive to all but mock natural immunity when we should be championing the possibility that natural immunity may be much more durable than we thought. At the very least we should be giving anyone with natural immunity the choice to trust it or get the vaccine (I saw somewhere that at least one company was doing so - good on them). Shouldn't we have more data at this time on the durability of natural immunity than on mRNA vaccines? Seems to me that we should have a longer data set at this point on natural immunity from the beginning of the pandemic than on vaccines since they were released later on. Again how can we trust where all this data is coming from if it is so bullish towards vaccines and yet the natural immunity data seems to be still "lacking" at this point. Who failed us in that natural immunity data is still "lacking"? Just doesn't make any sense. My own anecdotal experience of covid outbreak in the group of my naturally immune wife and all her vaccinated friends has played out in-line with the natural immunity data coming from Israel.

 

[Julian]

The study showed people who recovered from COVID, not whose body created anti-bodies, were 27x more likely to be protected against the Delta variant compared to those who are fully vaccinated. That is a tremendous number.

While yes there are people who may not create anti-bodies, and I am no scientist, but common sense tells me a strong majority of people would create anti-bodies. That is how our body works.

Totally agree....but a "strong majority" of people survive Covid too. Yet that still leaves the US with approaching 700,000 dead from it and the world with 4.5 Million dead.

Natural Immunity is great! We don't have many studies on how great - but we know it works (possibly even better than a vaccine). We have major studies on vaccine immunity- it is also great. And the best thing about vaccine immunity - you don't have to get sick with Covid to get it. Preventative medicine is what we WANT. So @MidnightRider, its not about being bullish on one or the other....its about practicing good medicine - promote the preventative!

 

[tabbibus]

Boosted. Chills overnight. Not much else. My testicles are swollen but that may be unrelated. ?

Edit: a typo

 

[Bruce]

My parents, in their early 70s, took their boosters on Friday.

They did not experience any adverse effects.

Unfortunately they also did not receive 5G service so I will continue paying for their phones.