The Vaccine

[tabbibus]

@Julian is right. I've read studies where the efficacy of cloth and paper masks are much lower than 20%, but that number is close enough. Logically paper masks must offer some protection at least from droplets. $Julian is getting to the heart of the issue - Masks are not respirators, and not all masks are created equal. Even the CDC is now coming clean and saying that the surgical masks were never designed for such a purpose and shouldn't be used unless there are no other alternatives. Understanding Respiratory Protection Against SARS | NPPTL | NIOSH | CDC

No one I know of has ever said that ALL masks and respirators are a failure. The mask mandater's argument would be much stronger if there was a push for the N95 respirator or better. This is part of the point I was getting to earlier with distrust after the intentional misinformation coming out of the CDC who led people to believe that paper masks, T-shirts, bandanas, and just about any other material will protect against a virus which is an intentional falsehood. As skepticism intensified, the CDC doubled down by saying that multiple masks should be used simultaneously. Even today, few acknowledge that masks have a lifecycle and even the N95 respirators are supposed to be changed after several hours.

Did you know that OSHA level fines in excess of $20K against companies who issue paper masks to employees who work in dusty environments such as drywall work? If they can't protect against particulates below 50microns, how are they work against an aspirated virus as the general public now believes?

The Difference Between Dust Masks, N95s and Other Respirators - LHSFNA

www.lhsfna.org

I may have missed when they said that non n95 masks and bandanas will be equally protective. I do remember seeing the statement that said that if you didn't have anything else, to at least use the cloth or bandana. It seems to me that it was in desperation as that was in a time when we did not have enough supply. I'll completely grand you that messaging has been suboptimal, to be kind.

If I recall correctly (again, not going to the source right now), the double mask recommendation was aimed at trying to improve fit of the mask. So if you had a loose fitting mask, using the other one on top would improve the fit. I double mask at work mainly to keep my n95 clean, not because it will filter more.

Just to be clear, no one has ever said that masks filter the virus right? That is not how they work. Just in case, the role of the mask is to filter the vehicle in which the virus travels (aerosol/droplets).

Masks suck man, I hate them. But they have kept me safe at work. And they have kept many people safe in the community as well. Are they perfect, nope. Lots of pitfalls. Is it better than "bare-face". Yeah, I think so.

 

[Jim_in_Delaware]

Not my area of expertise, but I believe that aerosol transmission is via exhaled and inhaled droplets containing the virus.

Surgical masks are made to protect you from sprays or splashes that could enter the nose or mouth. These masks are also able to filter out large particles in the air, and can make sure droplets from the wearer aren’t being spread. N95 masks, on the other hand, provide a higher degree of protection than a surgical mask or cloth mask because they can filter out both large and small particles when the wearer breathes.

Jim

 

[swatski]

how are they work against an aspirated virus as the general public now believes

Because cloth, or paper, is better than nothing at all. In fact, either is quite effective at stopping particulate emissions of aerosolized droplets in exhaled air, within limits.

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[tabbibus]

I realize this is Flu and not covid. But you get the idea.

N95 Respirators vs Medical Masks for Preventing Laboratory-Confirmed Influenza in Health Care Personnel

This cluster randomized clinical trial compares the effect of N95 respirators vs medical masks worn by health care personnel for prevention of workplace-acquired influenza and other viral respiratory infections in geographically diverse, high-exposure outpatient settings.

jamanetwork.com

 

[swatski]

@Julian is right. I've read studies where the efficacy of cloth and paper masks are much lower than 20%, but that number is close enough. Logically paper masks must offer some protection at least from droplets.

No, Julian is not right. Viral transmission through air is almost entirely confined to aerosolized droplets, and you do not need a respirator to stop those, for the most part.

This is not new. The science behind it is century old, and the number of microbiological studies to have addressed it is extensive if not mind bogglingly large.

I would think with some of your conspiratorial comments you could not be serious, but perhaps you are?
If your position is masks should be 100% protective, or not recommended at all, and anything else is EVIDENCE the two or three million federal workers are orchestrating a deliberate, undercover, misinformation campaign to enrich Bill Gates - apparently you are not alone.

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[Julian]

@Julian is right. I've read studies where the efficacy of cloth and paper masks are much lower than 20%, but that number is close enough. Logically paper masks must offer some protection at least from droplets. $Julian is getting to the heart of the issue - Masks are not respirators, and not all masks are created equal. Even the CDC is now coming clean and saying that the surgical masks were never designed for such a purpose and shouldn't be used unless there are no other alternatives. Understanding Respiratory Protection Against SARS | NPPTL | NIOSH | CDC

No one I know of has ever said that ALL masks and respirators are a failure. The mask mandater's argument would be much stronger if there was a push for the N95 respirator or better. This is part of the point I was getting to earlier with distrust after the intentional misinformation coming out of the CDC who led people to believe that paper masks, T-shirts, bandanas, and just about any other material will protect against a virus which is an intentional falsehood. As skepticism intensified, the CDC doubled down by saying that multiple masks should be used simultaneously. Even today, few acknowledge that masks have a lifecycle and even the N95 respirators are supposed to be changed after several hours.

Did you know that OSHA level fines in excess of $20K against companies who issue paper masks to employees who work in dusty environments such as drywall work? If they can't protect against particulates below 50microns, how are they work against an aspirated virus as the general public now believes?

The Difference Between Dust Masks, N95s and Other Respirators - LHSFNA

www.lhsfna.org

And to build on that....our poor healthcare workers were (during the height of the pandemic) asked to reuse the same masks from patient to patient all day long! Something they would have been written up for before the pandemic - but due to shortages - it was better than nothing!

My neighbor -ICU nurse - flew up to NY to help for 2 weeks. He came back after a week. When I talked to him he said 1) I was being asked to work far beyond my license and training (everyone was) and he wasn't comfortable with that, and more importantly 2) it was an absolute shit show in terms of infection control - reusing masks, not having respirators for really sick patient interactions. He basically said he and the group he went with all feared for their lives. When he returned he stayed at a hotel for 2 weeks because he didn't want to get near his family.

No, Julian is not right.

WHAT????? This can't be right!!!! LOL

Masks work - and we've known that for decades. I'm baffled by those that are fighting their use.....really....seriously...baffled. I don't think anyone here is saying they don't. I also don't recall the CDC ever saying a cloth mask or banana would protect you from the virus - but snippets from longer discussions can get edited to make it sound like they made sweeping statements like this - and the media has done this for various topics on both sides. Strange that anyone would gobble up anti mask rhetoric like this - but if it supports your confirmation bias....it sure is easier. And that again is the problem with social media - people get misleading snippets/quotes etc from someone, and turn that into a counter argument that is spread like wild fire. Its like the rumor mill in any big company. Someone getting fired gets communicated like the speed of light - positive news....not so much.

 

[Evil Sports]

Let me piss a little unvetted gas on this,
Washington public school allegedly forces student to wear anklet monitor for not being vaccinated

 

[tabbibus]

Oh my



Also. Have you looked at what theBL and the post millennial are known for?

I hope this is not where you get your news from.

 

[Evil Sports]

My millennial son sent it to me, I lol and had to drop it in here

 

[adrianp89]

The fact they are even doing ankle monitors is ridiculous. I am sure it didn’t start as “voluntary” only, and someone quickly backtracked.

 

[Bruce]

Let me piss a little unvetted gas on this

Is that site satire or just fake news?

 

[tabbibus]

Is that site satire or just fake news?

Mostly fake news. No idea about this ankle story. But it is a known fake news misinformation site.

 

[Bluewater272]

The fact they are even doing ankle monitors is ridiculous. I am sure it didn’t start as “voluntary” only, and someone quickly backtracked.

• A public school in Washington state requires student athletes participating in high-contact or moderate-contact indoor sports to wear proximity monitors to help the school with COVID-19 social distancing and contact tracing.
• The requirement applies to vaccinated and unvaccinated students and staff while they are participating in the sport.
• The devices track proximity, not location, and monitor whether and for how long people wearing the devices are near one another.

PolitiFact - Proximity monitors at Wash. school are for vaccinated students and staff, too

The start of the school year has been engulfed in controversy around COVID-19 safety measures, such as mask requirements

www.politifact.com

 

[Acard7]

• A public school in Washington state requires student athletes participating in high-contact or moderate-contact indoor sports to wear proximity monitors to help the school with COVID-19 social distancing and contact tracing.
• The requirement applies to vaccinated and unvaccinated students and staff while they are participating in the sport.
• The devices track proximity, not location, and monitor whether and for how long people wearing the devices are near one another.

PolitiFact - Proximity monitors at Wash. school are for vaccinated students and staff, too

The start of the school year has been engulfed in controversy around COVID-19 safety measures, such as mask requirements

www.politifact.com

feel like this is kinda what the NFL and other pro sports wore last year and most likely this year again? Not 100% sure on that though

 

[adrianp89]

• A public school in Washington state requires student athletes participating in high-contact or moderate-contact indoor sports to wear proximity monitors to help the school with COVID-19 social distancing and contact tracing.
• The requirement applies to vaccinated and unvaccinated students and staff while they are participating in the sport.
• The devices track proximity, not location, and monitor whether and for how long people wearing the devices are near one another.

PolitiFact - Proximity monitors at Wash. school are for vaccinated students and staff, too

The start of the school year has been engulfed in controversy around COVID-19 safety measures, such as mask requirements

www.politifact.com

And yet people seem ok with this.

 

[Bruce]

And yet people seem ok with this.

Many Americans have opted in to CoVID exposure tracking apps that work in the same way.

Australia has been quite successful using such a system as part of national contract tracing.

 

[tabbibus]

This is yet another reason why so many of us are upset. Don't tell me this isn't frustrating.



And this is not isolated. Yesterday I talked to some of my ICU friends in other hospitals and the stress the system is undergoing is terrible. For example, hospital Subway shops turned into covid wards.

 

[ripler]

And yet people seem ok with this.

The parents seemed to be OK with it.

This is from the article.

Administrators and coaches invited parents to a meeting and gave them a consent form prior to the start of the fall athletics season, but the school also suggested that "numerous changes" to the system can be expected throughout the year. The school’s fall athletics season began on Aug. 23.


This is from the school website.

 

[Bluewater272]

And yet people seem ok with this.

Seems a perfectly reasonable mitigation strategy, much more palatable than simply cancelling sports again. Not like these kids have to wear it 24/7.

 

[Bluewater272]

This is yet another reason why so many of us are upset. Don't tell me this isn't frustrating.

And this is not isolated. Yesterday I talked to some of my ICU friends in other hospitals and the stress the system is undergoing is terrible. For example, hospital Subway shops turned into covid wards.

This honestly seems asinine to me. Maybe I'd be a heartless administrator, but the ICU beds would be prioritized for vaccinated patients (or those with a legitimate contraindication to vaccination). I would not be shutting down other critical services to take care of patients who wont do the bare minimum to protect themselves. Imagine being a newly diagnosed cancer patient waiting for a resection or invasive biopsy, and getting told to wait. I'd lose my shit.