The Vaccine

[Bruce]

Early summer my wife booked the first available orthopedic appointment for mid October. Three weeks ago she got a call that she could come in any time she wanted as they had cancelled all surgeries due to local hospitals being overwhelmed.

Not only do we have more patients admitted than the winter peak but they are sicker requiring more ICU beds and ventilators. The best information is that all ECMO equipment is in use. This is shocking considering that 90% of the cases are coming from the 60% that chose to be unvaccinated.

 

[Julian]

That tracking device article is a PERFECT example of disinformation at its best. The headline is a bald face lie - but many won't even get past the headline and actually read the story or god forbid go look up to see if it is accurate! Yet it gets copied and pasted everywhere!

Might as well start publishing stories with titles like: "Texas School forces vaccinated students to wear Sheep hats".

Sigh.

 

[tabbibus]

I would wear a sheep hat if it meant more people got the shot!

 

[tabbibus]

Looks like the tracker thing exploded into the media. Now the program has been cancelled by the school because of "angry parents" who apparently wore t shirts saying Unmask our children...

So if the reports are correct, the school talked about this, invited parents to discuss this, sent out communications, and required an opt in. But now it is withdrawn after "outrage". I can't help to believe what some reports say, that these protesting parents are being coached and maybe even infiltrated by what I can only call pro-covid forces. I'm not sure what else to call these people.

 

[MidnightRider]

I hate masks and avoid using them when I can, but saying they don't do anything is just completely flawed on so many levels.

If you ever have surgery, God forbid, would you want your surgeon and the stuff to skip masking during surgery? Do you think they do this for show?
Serious question.

To be fair, sure surgical mask is for a reason but it sure the hell isn't to protect me from a virus he might have. If I had a surgeon with covid come in with just a surgical mask on saying that it was to protect me from contracting covid I'd think it was a bad joke - no? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Not saying masks don't do anything but I've heard the surgeon argument before and it doesn't track for me.

 

[scbruet]

And yet people seem ok with this.

You carry a tracker in your pocket all day long.

 

[Julian]

To be fair, sure surgical mask is for a reason but it sure the hell isn't to protect me from a virus he might have. If I had a surgeon with covid come in with just a surgical mask on saying that it was to protect me from contracting covid I'd think it was a bad joke - no? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Not saying masks don't do anything but I've heard the surgeon argument before and it doesn't track for me.

So why do they wear masks then?

The way I look at that logic is like this:

1. Some people say masks don't work and are pointless
2. I ask - would you be ok with your surgical team going maskless?
3. Usually I get no reply - sometimes I get the reply - those mask are different.

Bottom line as I see it. Healthcare workers wear masks to contain and prevent the spread of viruses and bacteria. They've done this for over a century because they know masks work to slow/prevent the spread.

So if we know masks work to slow/prevent the spread of viruses and bacteria in a healthcare setting - WHY would they not work in another setting? The only valid answer I've gotten is "because normal people don't know how to wear a mask". Mask use, and proper use sure are something we could do better at - but we aren't even at the point of getting people to agree that masks actually WORK!!!! Despite over a century of proof. I'm baffled at the fact that I even have to type this.....

Regarding contact tracing - the Israelis (a place lots of people typically point to as smart, forward thinking, innovative etc) have had everyone load a contact tracing app on their phones that warns you if you were in the same place as someone who tested positive for Covid. The app recommends you quarantine. My team there use it all the time. Their main complaint is that it doesn't handle vertical separate - meaning, someone 20 floors up from you cause a contact trace alert when you walk by a tall building - so they've been working on upgrading that. But suffice to say - amazingly simple tech - helping Israel contain the spread. Smart people.

 

[tabbibus]

So why do they wear masks then?

The way I look at that logic is like this:

1. Some people say masks don't work and are pointless
2. I ask - would you be ok with your surgical team going maskless?
3. Usually I get no reply - sometimes I get the reply - those mask are different.

Bottom line as I see it. Healthcare workers wear masks to contain and prevent the spread of viruses and bacteria. They've done this for over a century because they know masks work to slow/prevent the spread.

So if we know masks work to slow/prevent the spread of viruses and bacteria in a healthcare setting - WHY would they not work in another setting? The only valid answer I've gotten is "because normal people don't know how to wear a mask". Mask use, and proper use sure are something we could do better at - but we aren't even at the point of getting people to agree that masks actually WORK!!!! Despite over a century of proof. I'm baffled at the fact that I even have to type this.....

Regarding contact tracing - the Israelis (a place lots of people typically point to as smart, forward thinking, innovative etc) have had everyone load a contact tracing app on their phones that warns you if you were in the same place as someone who tested positive for Covid. The app recommends you quarantine. My team there use it all the time. Their main complaint is that it doesn't handle vertical separate - meaning, someone 20 floors up from you cause a contact trace alert when you walk by a tall building - so they've been working on upgrading that. But suffice to say - amazingly simple tech - helping Israel contain the spread. Smart people.

The app thing sounds amazing. I wish we had a robust, nation wide contact tracing infrastructure. It would help manage this pandemic a lot. More so in the early stages or when numbers are lower, but still would be helpful now. But I can only imagine the pearl clutching this would produce in some groups.

 

[Julian]

The app thing sounds amazing. I wish we had a robust, nation wide contact tracing infrastructure. It would help manage this pandemic a lot. More so in the early stages or when numbers are lower, but still would be helpful now. But I can only imagine the pearl clutching this would produce in some groups.

It is cool - but the tech isn't quite there yet. The vertical separation part causes far too many trace alerts - to the point of "alert fatigue". But I once it gets better there is no reason it couldn't be another tool we could use.

Like Masks....it isn't the only thing we should be doing! Hand washing, hand sanitizer, distancing, face touching etc all need to be part of a comprehensive approach to disease containment. But with people arguing about the efficacy of parts of that (masks) - it effectively diminishes the whole approach. Still find it insane we are arguing about IF masks work!

 

[Jim_in_Delaware]

Regarding contact tracing - the Israelis (a place lots of people typically point to as smart, forward thinking, innovative etc) have had everyone load a contact tracing app on their phones that warns you if you were in the same place as someone who tested positive for Covid. The app recommends you quarantine. My team there use it all the time. Their main complaint is that it doesn't handle vertical separate - meaning, someone 20 floors up from you cause a contact trace alert when you walk by a tall building - so they've been working on upgrading that. But suffice to say - amazingly simple tech - helping Israel contain the spread. Smart people.

I don't know all of the specifics, but there are some similiar apps here in the States. We use to live in Maryland and they promoted their tracing app on TV. From one of the local news stations:

Maryland has a voluntary MD COVID Alert app as a supplement to conventional contact tracing. Users who enable the app can expect to get a notification if they had close contact with someone who eventually is diagnosed with coronavirus. The notification will list the approximate date of exposure, but no personal information. The app records what other phones users have been near recently, but won’t track your location. Privacy is preserved in part using a system that assigns each user a new random number every 10 to 20 minutes. Every day, users’ phones will download a list of the random IDs previously encountered.

Probably used less now that we have a vaccine,

Jim

 

[adrianp89]

You carry a tracker in your pocket all day long.

That only a select few people can track. Not my teachers. The ways this could be abused are limitless, especially with the power trip that school districts have.

 

[scbruet]

A select few people at apple, amazon, and google? That tracker in your pocket also listens to every word you say.

 

[MidnightRider]

I would think few would argue that masks don't work at all, the argument is how well and what is their worth. In my opinion with what people are using as masks and how most of the people I see wear them, I'm skeptical that in most cases they are much better than the old "cover your mouth when you cough". From my construction days I know even wearing an N95 mask all day during a dirty demo you come home after work and have dirt around your nostrils and lips - and that's dirt you can see in the air, not a microscopic virus. Its a result of imperfect fit and movement of the mask. Now take that and add the ridiculous materials and fit that most mask wearers have, let alone many wearing them around only their mouth etc. Personally I'm just very skeptical on the overall effect that masks have had on this pandemic spread. You'll say, but look at how the implementation of mask mandates has decreased spread - the problem with that logic is there is a whole lot of other mitigations that came with that. Almost everyone that I know that has contracted covid was a strict mask user. Well fitted, correctly worn N95 mask, ok, but that is a rare use case in my experience in the general public. Distancing is the only thing that has had major affect on spread in my book. Just my opinion.

 

[Julian]

Well fitted, correctly worn N95 mask, ok, but that is a rare use case in my experience in the general public.

I wear KN95 masks now. They are readily available and frankly much better than other masks as the ones I bought have a frame inside that keeps the mask off my face and makes it easier to breath (not less) - which is counter intuitive. If only we were having THIS discussion vs people screaming at each other about not being forced to wear a mask.

Imagine a world where we all agreed that wearing good masks, and wearing them properly was a good idea! That we encouraged feedback if we weren't wearing it properly!

Yeah...dreaming.....

 

[Bruce]

That only a select few people can track. Not my teachers.

Actually every website can request your location and many free apps constantly report your location. This is on top of the abusive tracking that has occurred by Google and Apple. If you have a mobile device or pay with instruments other than cash then tracking data exists for you.

Do you use any mapping software while driving? That is tracking you.

Do you use car insurance that is based on miles driven or driving style? That is tracking you.

Have you ever worn a Disney MagicBand?

 

[tabbibus]

Don't speak ill of the Mouse! lol

 

[ripler]

@Julian Where are you getting your K95 masks? Are there any available on Amazon that are legit masks?

 

[adrianp89]

Actually every website can request your location and many free apps constantly report your location. This is on top of the abusive tracking that has occurred by Google and Apple. If you have a mobile device or pay with instruments other than cash then tracking data exists for you.

Do you use any mapping software while driving? That is tracking you.

Do you use car insurance that is based on miles driven or driving style? That is tracking you.

Have you ever worn a Disney MagicBand?

Still different than a teacher using your location to see what you are doing and using that against you.

 

[HangOutdoors]

@Julian Where are you getting your K95 masks? Are there any available on Amazon that are legit masks?

Are there K95 masks? From what I understand there are N95 Masks which are the U.S. Standard and KN95 Masks which are the China Standard. The N95 are more stringent. Of course there are those here whom no far more about it.

I get mine from Amazon, the N95 but only the one type which was recommended to me. The Admiral gets hers from a Medical Equipment Store since she works at the Hospital. I choose not to have her get mine from there since I feel the Medical Staff should have preference and supply always.

Amazon.com : niosh n95 mask

 

[Bruce]

These were recommended by a local immunologist. They are not US certified but did very well in CDC testing.

WWDOLL

WWDOLL HOME PAGE

www.amazon.com

They are easier to breathe and talk through than the N95 masks that I have and provide greater filtration than the commercial multilayer cloth masks that we were using.

This is the CDC testing report https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/npptl/res...engde_KN95Folding_TestReport_Redacted-508.pdf

My family has access to cloth masks, N95, KN95 and surgical masks. They choose the KN95 so I bought a 3 month supply.