Trying to get reverse down

[212s]

I'm not crazy about the CJS setup. Especially the second tie rod. But that's just me, being a lifelong mechanic, I like equal working angles.

While I don't use any fins just the stock A/K rudder, I did get one of CJS tie-rods and added it to my 212. The steering is a little more balanced and it equals out the wear on the push/pull steering cables.

 

[RobbieO]

Interesting. So you feel a difference with the added tie rod? When I was out on my first trip, the steering did feel somewhat different left to right. Maybe I'll try that. I may get the Thrust Vectors. If they don't interfere with the second tie rod, I might give it a try.

 

[212s]

Interesting. So you feel a difference with the added tie rod?

Yes, it's not a dramatic difference, but it's noticeable. I wanted it more for the balanced wear of the cable lines and it looks better with the two rods - more "finished".

When I was out on my first trip, the steering did feel somewhat different left to right. Maybe I'll try that. I may get the Thrust Vectors. If they don't interfere with the second tie rod, I might give it a try.

It shouldn't interfere as they can't get in the way of the first tie-rod.

 

[RobbieO]

Yes, it's not a dramatic difference, but it's noticeable. I wanted it more for the balanced wear of the cable lines and it looks better with the two rods - more "finished".

It shouldn't interfere as they can't get in the way of the first tie-rod.

Yeah, I realized that later. Thanks for the feedback! Btw, tie rod is a little pricey!

 

[Cobra Jet Steering LLC]

RobbieO

I am enjoying this you said you were a mechanic your entire life well I built motorcycles ,boats, cars and stock cars since I was 17 years old I owned a repair shop called A and J auto clinic for a long time , I worked with very accomplished body repair people, mechanics and boat repair people, and welders as well and did it for free, just to have them teach me the trade. I have been doing steering for jet propelled watercraft for 20 years and hold 5 US patents so where are we 68 years old minus 17 = 51 years of experience doing this sort of thing. even built ice racing stock cars and custom Harley Davidson motorcycles years ago.
Now go look at what a complete tie rod costs from Yamaha with both ends and hardware,

https://www.yamahasportsplaza.com/oemparts/a/yam/54453e4bf870020ad8f5dba6/steering

and that comes to over 180 dollars then you need to hunt down the correct stainless bolts for the ends to attach to the nozzle and rudder plus shipping.
And after all that you can not use it because I own the patents so the federal law says you have to get a license from me to use it, and it says if you did not know it was covered in a patent it is no defense in a federal lawsuit, however now you know so you still use it without the patent owners permission or a license , the violation now comes under the triple award clause where the patent owner can ask for the judge to triple his judgement against you.
So be advised I own the second tie rod patent and I own other modifications of the tie rod to connect to both nozzles and the rudder .
I already have one private investigator chasing down a boat that falls into this category and was posted on a face book page recently so be careful and thrust vectors have to cut out the second inner fin to work with my tie rod. But obviously you saw that immediately with all your experience. Everyone on here will warn you don't poke the bear. my advice is add the thrust vectors to your boat and do not use any of my steering , my patents are listed on my signature.

 

[RobbieO]

RobbieO

I am enjoying this you said you were a mechanic your entire life well I built motorcycles ,boats, cars and stock cars since I was 17 years old I owned a repair shop called A and J auto clinic for a long time , I worked with very accomplished body repair people, mechanics and boat repair people, and welders as well and did it for free, just to have them teach me the trade. I have been doing steering for jet propelled watercraft for 20 years and hold 5 US patents so where are we 68 years old minus 17 = 51 years of experience doing this sort of thing. even built ice racing stock cars and custom Harley Davidson motorcycles years ago.
Now go look at what a complete tie rod costs from Yamaha with both ends and hardware,

https://www.yamahasportsplaza.com/oemparts/a/yam/54453e4bf870020ad8f5dba6/steering

and that comes to over 180 dollars then you need to hunt down the correct stainless bolts for the ends to attach to the nozzle and rudder plus shipping.
And after all that you can not use it because I own the patents so the federal law says you have to get a license from me to use it, and it says if you did not know it was covered in a patent it is no defense in a federal lawsuit, however now you know so you still use it without the patent owners permission or a license , the violation now comes under the triple award clause where the patent owner can ask for the judge to triple his judgement against you.
So be advised I own the second tie rod patent and I own other modifications of the tie rod to connect to both nozzles and the rudder .
I already have one private investigator chasing down a boat that falls into this category and was posted on a face book page recently so be careful and thrust vectors have to cut out the second inner fin to work with my tie rod. But obviously you saw that immediately with all your experience. Everyone on here will warn you don't poke the bear. my advice is add the thrust vectors to your boat and do not use any of my steering , my patents are listed on my signature.

How can purchasing a tie rod from Yamaha violate your patent? Are you saying if I but it from you, I’m still violating your patent? You can’t have it both ways.

 

[Cobra Jet Steering LLC]

Your questions are How can purchasing a tie rod from Yamaha violate your patent? "answer ask a patent lawyer" next QUESTION???. Are you saying if I but it from you, I’m still violating your patent? Wow are you really that confused? you said You can’t have it both ways. Oh my goodness go back and try again I have a lot of work here to get done.

 

[RobbieO]

LOL...Ok Jeff....If I purchase the kit from you, will I receive documentation giving me permission to use it? I never said I was going to get it from Yamaha. I would like to buy it from you if you’ll allow it. You must be getting old like me. Peace out...life is short.

 

[Canuckjetboater]

Whoa! Whisky Tango Foxtrot!

 

[Cobra Jet Steering LLC]

LOL...Ok Jeff....If I purchase the kit from you, will I receive documentation giving me permission to use it? I never said I was going to get it from Yamaha. I would like to buy it from you if you’ll allow it. You must be getting old like me. Peace out...life is short.

It's 645 pm I have not had time for lunch or dinner yet so I will make this as simple as possible . Apparently You Did NOT UNDERSTAND ANYTHING I SAID, why would I tell you you can't but from Yamaha when you complained about my price, it was for a comparison showing you that my price was lower than Yamaha . As for buying from me where did you get the incorrect meaning from that it is the only way you can properly add a second tie rod to your Yamaha jet boat. And once again thrust vectors have to be cut on the left side just like they are cut on the right side to clear the tie rod. and from the private conversation we had before all this I really don't have any desire to get involved with that.

 

[Mully262]

Not quite sure if I need to ask a patent lawyer: "Say, if I buy a tie-rod from Yamaha, designed by Yamaha, intended for Yamaha, and installed on a Yamaha, would I be violating some other company's claim to a patent?".

I am fairly certain that any PI or patent lawyer that showed up at my door would not only be laughed off my property, but I would also promptly call Yamaha and they would have a team of lawyers that would salivate over that one. Good luck on that one. The argument "the tie rod is designed to be installed on the starboard jet nozzle, NOT the port nozzle." would hold zero weight.

There is a big difference between protecting proprietary/intellectual property, and stifling consumer innovation to enhance an existing product.

 

[Cobra Jet Steering LLC]

I believe you better ask a lawyer because you don't have a clue and I don't have the time to explain it just know adding a SECOND tie rod is patented period as well as other configurations to interconnect the nozzles it isn't my first rodeo. Also ask about the doctrine of equivalents while you are doing your research.

 

[Mully262]

I believe you better ask a lawyer because you don't have a clue and I don't have the time to explain it just know adding a SECOND tie rod is patented period as well as other configurations to interconnect the nozzles it isn't my first rodeo. Also ask about the doctrine of equivalents while you are doing your research.

Haha. Will do. I will call Yamaha on Monday and ask to speak with their legal team. I will follow back up.

You should probably put the phone/keyboard down now. Honestly, this is a forum of JB enthusiasts, and arguing over a petty thing like "don't you dare buy a second tie down rod from Yamaha or else I will send a private investigator and patent lawyer to your house" is deeply concerning. It is costing you more opportunity sales than anything. You are not the only smart person on here, although you are certainly acting like it right now.

 

[FSH 210 Sport]

New Yamaha SX190 owner. Having trouble with reverse drive. I know it's me, but there doesn't seem to be much if any control in reverse. Especially when turning starboard. Seem to have more control when turning port. Anyone else notice this? I guess no one makes any attachments for the 2019 up?

Just spend some time practicing and you’ll find there is plenty of control with your stock boat. Use small / short pulses of thrust In forward and reverse when in close quarters and keep your speed down. No one ever wrecked their boat going too slow !

 

[Cobra Jet Steering LLC]

Just spend some time practicing and you’ll find there is plenty of control with your stock boat. Use small / short pulses of thrust In forward and reverse when in close quarters and keep your speed down. No one ever wrecked their boat going too slow !

Just add aftermarket steering and enjoy the boat, extra top fins for great reverse and all around improved steering at all speeds

 

[Canuckjetboater]

Not quite sure if I need to ask a patent lawyer: "Say, if I buy a tie-rod from Yamaha, designed by Yamaha, intended for Yamaha, and installed on a Yamaha, would I be violating some other company's claim to a patent?".

I am fairly certain that any PI or patent lawyer that showed up at my door would not only be laughed off my property, but I would also promptly call Yamaha and they would have a team of lawyers that would salivate over that one. Good luck on that one. The argument "the tie rod is designed to be installed on the starboard jet nozzle, NOT the port nozzle." would hold zero weight.

There is a big difference between protecting proprietary/intellectual property, and stifling consumer innovation to enhance an existing product.

@Mully262 and @RobbieO ...... agree 100%. There is NO patent protection on common intellectual property such as an airplane wing or car door. There may be for specific and unique components of said but not for the general design principal. Any attempts to enforce such an "infringement" claim would be met with judicial derision. I/Os have tie bars for twin applications made by about 20 suppliers. Yamaha offering the same concept would be absolute proof of that and the law firms on Yamaha retainer would salivate at the opportunity to take that forward but I bet no court would even hear it. There would likely then be a massive counter-suit for defamation by Yamaha that would financially cripple most mortals. As for you Jeff you usually seem to be a great guy but somewhere in this conversation, in my opinion, you "came off the rails". We have all made mistakes in the past. When I have erred I have said "I am sorry, I got that wrong". I recommend instead of doubling down on your missive you apologize.

 

[drewkaree]

I don't have the time to explain it

Without fail, you consistently state this point, then proceed to belabor the fact that, indeed, you do have time despite your protestations. Over. And. Over. Again.

How about stating your point, and then simply showing everyone, via your actions, that you are correct, instead of browbeating your points for all the world to see, including potential clients? I'm asking rhetorically, because a simple search shows the answer to my question: Don't you care the slightest that you are your own worst PR? Repeated actions like this are why I made the choice I did, and I know for certain that others have done the same.

What good does all your patent bragging do if you continue to push people away with such behavior?

I recommend instead of doubling down on your missive you apologize.

You'll have an easier time convincing water not to be wet.

It's ridiculous, and this thread will continue to be crapped up now that Jeff is on the trail of some "patent violaters". This is beyond tiresome to see pop up again and again with the same behavior.

 

[212s]

Yeah, I realized that later. Thanks for the feedback! Btw, tie rod is a little pricey!

Not compared to Yamaha pricing...it's almost identical to the stock unit and works great. Jeff has put some time into all of these designs, and I don't mind paying him for it. If he didn't make a second tie-rod I might have bought one from Yamaha to do the same thing (not sure I'm smart enough to figure that out by myself though!). While many want the extra control of fins, I just don't feel I need it, and Jeff is ok with that. Same goes for Will at JBP where I got my seadek extras.

 

[bigwaves]

Just spend some time practicing and you’ll find there is plenty of control with your stock boat. Use small / short pulses of thrust In forward and reverse when in close quarters and keep your speed down. No one ever wrecked their boat going too slow !

Yes! It’s all about the short bursts in forward and reverse AND having your steering input set BEFORE you engage the throttle (burst). Once you figure out what the effect will be with the steering set in any direction with a quick burst of the throttle steering these awesome boats becomes much, much easier. Practice, practice, practice until it becomes intuitive. And go painfully slow in the marinas and ramp areas.

Have fun!

 

[FSH 210 Sport]

Yes! It’s all about the short bursts in forward and reverse AND having your steering input set BEFORE you engage the throttle (burst). Once you figure out what the effect will be with the steering set in any direction with a quick burst of the throttle steering these awesome boats becomes much, much easier. Practice, practice, practice until it becomes intuitive. And go painfully slow in the marinas and ramp areas.

Have fun!

Spot on!