Why A New Forum? My Explanation....others will add their stories

[jdonalds]

I think this thread was necessary. It is a way for people to understand what happened and to vent a little. But in the long run I would hope this thread could be deleted so the new site could march on by itself without any mention of these start up causes. It seems to me that any new members on either site, and the community as a whole, would benefit from moving on and putting this all behind us.

John

 

[txav8r]

I agree with you John, about the need of a new member, who does not care, nor does he need to be concerned with anything but the information and help that he can gain from this membership. It is an evolution of the membership that has brought us this great site. It is funny, a good number of the members asking questions about how and why never new the history of the previous site and what went on there in securing the domain and supporting its administration. Were these questions driven because of the recent turmoil, or was it a member that became involved, like many of us, and learned more about our history as he went along. Many of the new members will build on that history, and it will be natural to be curious as to why such a great place, with a great membership ever came into existence. I wonder if preserving that history and remembering is important. We certainly remember the battles this great country fought, and why we fought them, to preserve the freedoms and liberty we have here. So I think the bitterness will fade, but remembering why is important so it doesn't happen again.

 

[Evil Sports]

Its only important for the Admins here to remember so it does not happen again. Trying to tell people that were not affected is just moving dog sh!t around and no one likes that.

 

[Cobra Jet Steering LLC]

It appears that we may want to remember that once individuals posts are adulterated without their knowledge, or deleted thus changing the content or intended information by deliberate design of an administrator you lose total credibility of the web site and it's content.
If it is done with malice or with the intent to defame a person or intent to cause economic harm to a commercial entity you have quite another bad and very serious situation.
And once again a lack of credibility to the site .
Aside from that I believe I see a pattern here, It appears that the people who were trying to help the most were all in the same boat so to speak , It sort of reminds me of the GOD syndrome, it's my world and I will do as I damn well please and you peons had better do as I command as you are nothing without me. Just my opinion based on my observations. If that is an accurate observation one may be forewarned to avoid that pitfall. Others may have a different opinion.

 

[Julian]

All great points and many of them support the whole foundation of why we built this site and why we are here! WOOT!

Time will heal the wounds, and we have learned some great lessons!

An example of lessons I learned hosting forums (YJB and others)....Be Polite and respectful! Here, I have VERY TENTATIVELY asked a couple of members to size down their signature images. It was a request, not a command, and I offered my assistance (which was taken up in one case). When handled nicely, politely and with respect the end results are so much better than an authoritarian method! If Staff here ever cross the line to the wrong side, CALL us on it!!!! We all make mistakes, and we want to be sure we are open and caring!

Back to reading and helping with forum posts......

 

[Cobra Jet Steering LLC]

Yes indeed, I suppose I have had some time to reflect on nearly a decade of my life being invested in a forum and the things that led me to abandon it. Realizing that time wasted is gone forever but lessons learned remaine to serve you .
I just realized that so many people with thousands of posts and all that time invested have moved on, WOW!

 

[Julian]

And the "tale of the tape" will tell all.....46 members online here, 18 at YJB. And its been like that all week.

Build it and they will come. Tend it well and they will stay. Keep it fresh and fun and they'll bring friends!

 

[maboat]

I will be asking Brian to delete my entire content. And if it doesn't happen, I have already asked my attorney to draft a letter. It is my content.

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but I hope you didn't pay the attorney much. Like most things on the internet, I suspect very few people who registered on YJB actually read the t's&c's of the agreement. Here is an excerpt..
"As a user you agree to any information you have entered to being stored in a database. You are granting us with a non-exclusive, permanent, irrevocable, unlimited license to use, publish, or re-publish your Content in connection with the Service."

It may have been your ideas and your words, but posting them on YJB essentially gives the content rights to Brian.

Now that being said, I believe you are still able to EDIT your posts (assuming you've been un Banned). You can't delete them but you can cut out all the text and replace it with something like "-deleted by author-" or any other text you like. This is/was the infamous "Glassman method" (lol) used several years ago when there was a similar uprising and revolt going on. For heavy posters, like Mel, this would be a monumental task to edit them all (it was no small feat for Glassman either). Editing your signature with a "picture message" attached (aka the "SHOCKED method") would be a way to relay a message to anybody viewing your old posts

 

[jawsf16]

Mel is banned so probably can't edit either…

You can go into User Control Panel, Edit Attachments and delete all of your images. That is what I did. I went back and checked and it deleted all images from all of my postings. I also deleted all of my PMs, photo library, and bookmarks.

The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time...

 

[maboat]

As with most things, @Detonate and I seem to have the exact same ideas, arrived at independently from each other...

So glad to see that this thread exists. Should definitely be sticky and a basic required reading during registration...

I think the majority of people fall into the 'ignorant of Brian's actions.' camp. There is never any indication to people that posts have been deleted, or even worse modified by Brian.

The more you try and help him, and do more for the community members, the more he think you are trying to 'steal' YJB from him. Disturbing paranoia from that dude...

That highlighted part is what bothers me the most. The people defending the actions don't realize the secrecy that's going on. They refer to other forums that filter external links and say this is normal. But most other 'regulated' forums that I know of will always do the courtesy of modifying a posting to say "-edited by moderator-" or say " FROM MODERATOR: please keep your comments in line with policy xxx or you may be banned in the future" and then eventually "user so-and-so was banned due to repeated warnings, etc etc.". Thats what should happen IMHO

My real concern is that there is a number of really cool people that are completely in the dark about what was going on, and now have the opinion that current staff here are doing things out of spite. Which is NOT true. They doing it with all of the best intentions of furthering the community!!..

Again, I completely agree.

I have no intention of participating in bashing sessions. But I do think facts should not be censored. If I were to be petty, I would prefer that people like Steve45 and Hiddnos not join us here. I don't like their attitudes. But that's all I will say about them. Like @Detonate I have some concern that there are some newer people (just like most of us were once) who are in the dark and deserve to know the truth.

I'm feeling a little like Tom Cruise....(I want the TRUTH!)...

 

[jawsf16]

@maboat For me the unidentified censorship of one of my posts was the straw that broke this camels back… that is just downright wrong. At least throw a *removed by moderator* on it so people know.

 

[Bruce]

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but I hope you didn't pay the attorney much. Like most things on the internet, I suspect very few people who registered on YJB actually read the t's&c's of the agreement. Here is an excerpt..
"As a user you agree to any information you have entered to being stored in a database. You are granting us with a non-exclusive, permanent, irrevocable, unlimited license to use, publish, or re-publish your Content in connection with the Service."

It may have been your ideas and your words, but posting them on YJB essentially gives the content rights to Brian.

That is a recent change to the Ts&Cs.

I am attaching the Ts&Cs as of February 14th 2014.

 

[maboat]

That is a recent change to the Ts&Cs.

I am attaching the Ts&Cs as of February 14th 2014.

Even the old Ts&Cs states that he can basically do whatever he wants with the content, including banning, deleting, and editing at "any time" as he "sees fit". Brian is within his "rights" regarding his method of moderation of the content. Its not illegal, we just don't agree with it. His new use of the Trademark, however, makes me wonder......

 

[leeatmg]

Even the old Ts&Cs states that he can basically do whatever he wants with the content, including banning, deleting, and editing without warning and "as he sees fit". Brian is within "his rights" regarding his method of moderation of the content. Its not illegal, we just don't agree with it. His new use of the Trademark, however, makes me wonder......

Would Mel not have a case based on Brian editing his content without attributing the edits? I'd think that would not hold up in court; otherwise anyone could write anything and attribute it to someone else without consequence.

On top of that, this could also be a case of resources - my guess is that Mel might be willing to spend the resources to push the issue and Brian would not care to (or be able to) spend the resources to fight back.

 

[Evil Sports]

No one is taking anything to court, stfu about court and move on.

 

[txav8r]

No one is taking anything to court, stfu about court and move on.

You do have a style unlike any other don't you? Nothing is off the table as of yet, but the promised apology would have been a nice gesture and helped in the healing.

 

[maboat]

otherwise anyone could write anything and attribute it to someone else without consequence..

Happens all the time if it isn't copyrighted.

That said, let me clarify, I'm in favor of this forum and the people here. But lets all keep our heads straight. I don't know if @Evil Sports was for or against my comments, but think he and I are saying the same thing in a different way. I'm trying to stick to the facts. Just because we don't like things or if somebody does a wrong thing to us doesn't make it illegal. This country is ridiculously litigious.

All the great posts created by Mel (@txav8r) and all the rest of us are NOT COPYRIGHTED works by us. Therefore, we do not own the "rights" to control who "copies" it (thus the word, CopyRight). We knowingly and willingly wrote words into a database owned by Brian. That's it, plain and simple. We essentially GAVE it to him. There is no implied copyright to the author in this situation.

Of course Mel can consult his attorney as he sees fit. But I hate to see him waste money on that battle. Even worse I hate to think Brian could end up using YJB contributions to defend himself if a legal matter were pushed.

 

[jdonalds]

I would hope that in time we could replace this thread with something simple that doesn't defame anyone.

Something like...

"We started this web site to be free and open, welcoming opinions, input, photographs, hints and tips, for the jet boat public. Our intention is to keep the site free from advertising, honest and above board without malice. It was started when another jet boat forum encountered trouble which we hope to avoid here."

I just don't see the benefit of keeping all of this baggage and discontent on a site that we hope to be exactly the opposite.

Now the biggest problem I have is where to post! I'm still using both sites but don't have the energy to post twice. I'm beginning to default here.

John

 

[maboat]

"We started this web site to be free and open, welcoming opinions, input, photographs, hints and tips, for the jet boat public. Our intention is to keep the site free from advertising, honest and above board without malice. It was started when another jet boat forum encountered trouble which we hope to avoid here."

Well said
But I believe there is some need for everything to be out in the open...for a little while.
But then eventually fade to something like what you said.

Now the biggest problem I have is where to post! I'm still using both sites but don't have the energy to post twice. I'm beginning to default here.

I always go wherever the PARTY is

 

[txav8r]

So far, it is only a phone call. But he is my attorney, and his specialty...contract law. I don't see the need to press the issue really, but like Julian, if I am not allowed to attend it, then it doesn't need to be there. Especially since some of it has been modified without my consent or editing notes. As John says, it will all calm down. I would like to see the discussion in this thread stop too. I wish I had kept my thoughts regarding the content to myself. None of us are without sin or mistake. Another good lesson for me...my mistake in making the post. Apologies to those it offends.