Can't Resolve an Issue - What Should I do Next?

[meegwell]

Hi all,

I have an ongoing issue that I believe I can't resolve even with the wonderful help and knowledge of everyone here. I am aware of everywhere in the manual that it is addressed and it simply does not make sense or does not work the way it says it should. The issue is serious enough that I need to resolve it. I bought my boat second hand at a non-Yamaha dealer out-of-state (not many choices this summer!!!) so I don't have the option to go back to the dealer. I am thinking I should start emailing the issue to Yamaha dealers and hopefully have some luck? I believe I've read that contacting Yamaha directly will not work. This is my primary question for this message...what is the next step for help?

Another thing I want to be sure of is that I am stating the issue clearly. This issue has been beat to death here and I have been part of that beating at least in the past few months (it has years of history). I think I've read every message here related to it at least twice. Because of the different configurations in different model years they are not all relevant, but I've covered them all and have posted many question...and received many good suggestions. I will state my issue below let me know if I can do a better job of explaining it before I take it to Yamaha or dealers or whoever next.

2018 242X e-series boat (no manual flip buttons at helm, all electronic buttons and connext, push starts for engines, single key on the side)

1. The boat stays wet and uncovered at the marina for the summer months.
2. The bilge pump operates perfectly fine so long as the boat power is turned on (key in on position, batteries on, engines irrelevant), draining water automatically as needed.
3. The bilge pump will not operate/drain water, no mater how much is in the bilge and engine compartment, if the boat KEY is not turned on (even with batteries on).
4. This creates a hazard if I do not put the mooring cover on and we get heavy rain. I have experienced this (engine compartment filling up) both by natural situations (unexpected rain storm while boat docked and not covered) and testing (using a hose).
5. I have done extensive trial/error testing with a hose: before turning the key off, leaving the bilge button with blue/green/blue and green on. I have always left the batteries on.

Obviously the bilge pump works. Obviously I can take the boat out of the water, travel somewhere and have a second bilge put in. I can also somehow wire the bilge pump directly to the battery I believe...but...Shouldn't I be able to lock (remove the key) my boat at the marina and not worry about a rain storm filling up my engine compartment????

Any input appreciated.

 

[Dave burke]

If you’re leaving the boat wet slipped and uncovered, I’d add a second bilge. Automatic type. Either beside factory bilge or at the transom between the clean out port tubes.

i can’t really explain why your bilge doesn’t go on unless the key is on, although I agree it makes no sense. But it seems to me that given your situation, a second bilge is prudent, probably even a must.

I wet slip my boat and don’t always put the cover on. Before I had the second bilge, the boat almost sank because I had to leave the battery switch on and the bilge pump was constantly cycling off and on and it killed the battery.

 

[Babin Farms]

Like @Dave burke stated, install a second bilge pump if wetslipping(cheap insurance) and as far as your original issue why not just rewire the bilge pump direct to the battery and be done with the issue? No need to have key on, battery switch on or even have to think about it after you wire it direct, just test it occasionally and your good to go.

 

[meegwell]

If you’re leaving the boat wet slipped and uncovered, I’d add a second bilge. Automatic type. Either beside factory bilge or at the transom between the clean out port tubes.

i can’t really explain why your bilge doesn’t go on unless the key is on, although I agree it makes no sense. But it seems to me that given your situation, a second bilge is prudent, probably even a must.

I wet slip my boat and don’t always put the cover on. Before I had the second bilge, the boat almost sank because I had to leave the battery switch on and the bilge pump was constantly cycling off and on and it killed the battery.

Thanks and I agree with this completely, and I will be doing it in the off-season when I pull the boat. I usually plug in my trickle charger to shore power when docked so even if I had your issue I would be happy! For now, I would love to resolve the issue or have Yamaha confirm it doesn't work that way (which sounds completely insane to me!).

 

[drewkaree]

I don't have these issues, but I feel for you in trying to track down some way to fix this for your purposes. I don't see why you shouldn't be able to remove the key and have everything work, but I haven't really taken a look at the manual, nor am I familiar with the differences you're referencing. I agree with Dave, that the solution seems to be to add a secondary bilge pump - the OEM isn't located in the lowest part of the boat anyway, so by adding the second pump, I would utilize that as the primary, and the OEM would be the secondary for when the boat is in use.

Alternatively, there's got to be some way to circumvent the requirement of you having to leave the key in, maybe an inline switch behind the helm to bypass the key contacts, or a way to wire the OEM pump directly to the battery and somehow take it out of the OEM path of operation...adding/using the mooring cover would also help, both with your water intrusion and with protecting the interior of the boat, seating/plastics/vinyl/etc.

 

[meegwell]

Like @Dave burke stated, install a second bilge pump if wetslipping(cheap insurance) and as far as your original issue why not just rewire the bilge pump direct to the battery and be done with the issue? No need to have key on, battery switch on or even have to think about it after you wire it direct, just test it occasionally and your good to go.

Thank you. As I said in my original message I am aware I can 1.) install second and 2.) wire directly. I need to pull the boat for the first and I need to learn how/take the time/do the work for the direct wire but obviously these efforts are worth it to avoid the 1.) work of covering the boat all the time or 2.) boat sinking. I will be doing one and likely both, probably direct wire soon (any instructional videos on this? ).

My issue is I want to know why it doesn't work or how it should work or what I am doing wrong and I would rather, for now, just have it work the way it should. Really, my issue here is not the second options but trying to get to the bottom of the original problem.

Totally agree with your comment and thank you.

 

[meegwell]

I also should have mentioned that I had a very detailed dream of my boat sinking because of the bilge issue last night

 

[TimW451]

Once you’ve exhausted the expertise here, I’d try calling a good dealer within your region, explain the situation, verify the correct operation, and ask what you can do or what they can do if you were to bring your boat to them. A good service department would provide some advice and/or explain what they’d look at and not just say “bring it in”. I don’t think you’d get anywhere contacting Yamaha Corp and emails are easy to ignore.

If you’ve discussed this with owners of same year, same model boats here and theirs work the same as yours then I’d say you will need to make modifications, if theirs work the way you want then the aforementioned may help you. Another owners experience is worth more than the manual. There is too much errata in there, mostly old model info not removed, that I’d corroborate before taking as gospel.

And I’d agree with others, that if wet slipping, especially uncovered, you really should add another bilge pump eventually.

HTH

 

[meegwell]

Once you’ve exhausted the expertise here, I’d try calling a good dealer within your region, explain the situation, verify the correct operation, and ask what you can do or what they can do if you were to bring your boat to them. A good service department would provide some advice and/or explain what they’d look at and not just say “bring it in”. I don’t think you’d get anywhere contacting Yamaha Corp and emails are easy to ignore.

If you’ve discussed this with owners of same year, same model boats here and theirs work the same as yours then I’d say you will need to make modifications, if theirs work the way you want then the aforementioned may help you. Another owners experience is worth more than the manual. There is too much errata in there, mostly old model info not removed, that I’d corroborate before taking as gospel.

And I’d agree with others, that if wet slipping, especially uncovered, you really should add another bilge pump eventually.

HTH

Thanks two great points here. I do not believe I have come across someone in the same situation. That is, someone wet slipping a 2018 242x e-series. I have received a lot of great advice, thought, knowledge. Including the second great point of yours to just find the closest dealer I know I will eventually be working with and start a relationship with them. Thank you very much!

 

[Beachbummer]

So, Have you confirmed the wiring is exactlyas you expect? If you look at the electrical diagram for your boat, is the bilge pump hooked up exactly as the diagram suggests, and the grounds to any electronic module? If so, there is some sort of glitch with your Connext not providing power to that wire when it's supposed to. Whether it's a bad relay or bad ground or bad solder on the board controlling these, The issue is either your electronic module or that it is improperly wired. The only other thing the dealer could do that you can't, is swap this electronic board to see if the problem goes away. Expensive proposition.
EDIT: From posts below, it seems this is working as designed. Perhaps not designed ideally, but working as designed nonetheless.

To your desire for a new pump....
I have installed an extra bilge pump (2 actually) on my SX230 and it can surely be done in the water. No need to remove the boat from the water. I recommend you drill the new hole high up. Mine are above the rub rail, and it gives me great piece of mind that the bilge pump can easily clear the water level if I'm in a bad position. It's not ideal, but if you are having bad dreams you should certainly consider it. If you are not happy drilling the hole in the water (No judgement) you can still "pre-install: add pump and float with a longer hose and just rig the hose to point out of the boat when you dock via a breather hole or hatch access panel. Sleep problem fixed.

Best of Luck!!

 

[Dave burke]

I assume you’ve scoured the owners manual, right?

I would try Yamaha customer service, unless the wait is long. It’s a pretty simple question I think - does the key need to be on to run the bilge even in auto mode?

If no joy with Yamaha, call a couple of dealers and ask for the service manager. Good chance they should be able to help you if they’re so inclined. Email is too easy to ignore if they’re busy.

Other thing you can try is another post where you put the year and model in the subject line so hopefully people with the same/similar boat will respond.

 

[tkeru408]

Looking at the owner's manual for a 2018 242X, your boat seems to be operating according to instructions (even if that operating method isn't ideal). On page 144 it says if the boat is to be left in the water then leave the main switch in the on position and on page 41 it identifies exactly what it means by main switch, it's the key switch. See screen caps of the two pages below. Entirely possible I'm misunderstanding something.

 

[Julian]

Looking at the owner's manual for a 2018 242X, your boat seems to be operating according to instructions (even if that operating method isn't ideal). On page 144 it says if the boat is to be left in the water then leave the main switch in the on position and on page 41 it identifies exactly what it means by main switch, it's the key switch. See screen caps of the two pages below. Entirely possible I'm misunderstanding something.
View attachment 160917View attachment 160918

I was going to look up exactly the same thing! Saved me the effort!

This is not how the 2016 operates. Strange that they changed it to require the key to be in the boat. Mine doesn't need this. That said, I added a 2nd bilge pump (#35 in my list of mods) wired directly to the battery, and I always have my boat connected to shore power while sitting in the water.

 

[Quad]

Looking at the owner's manual for a 2018 242X, your boat seems to be operating according to instructions (even if that operating method isn't ideal). On page 144 it says if the boat is to be left in the water then leave the main switch in the on position and on page 41 it identifies exactly what it means by main switch, it's the key switch. See screen caps of the two pages below. Entirely possible I'm misunderstanding something.
View attachment 160917View attachment 160918

This is not how my 2020 242SE operates either. See this prior discussion and video:

 

[Quad]

@meegwell - if you wanted to keep the same pump, you could identify which of the 3 lines in the wiring harness to the pump carries the always-on power, cut that, and run it back to the house battery directly. I would highly advise putting an inline fuse between the pump and battery.

 

[tkeru408]

This is not how my 2020 242SE operates either. See this prior discussion and video:

Yup, my 2021 252SE operates same as yours...no need for battery or key to be turned on.

 

[meegwell]

Looking at the owner's manual for a 2018 242X, your boat seems to be operating according to instructions (even if that operating method isn't ideal). On page 144 it says if the boat is to be left in the water then leave the main switch in the on position and on page 41 it identifies exactly what it means by main switch, it's the key switch. See screen caps of the two pages below. Entirely possible I'm misunderstanding something.
View attachment 160917View attachment 160918

This is interesting. I was aware of the "leave main switch in ON position" language. I assumed they meant the bilge switch because SURELY it would not make sense to leave the boat with the Keyes in it and in the on position?????? I never saw the description go what they define as "Main Switch". This is just nuts!

Freaking crazy... So that means I have to leave all the electronics on? Connext screen? Anyone can jump in and take my boat? Battery drains very quick? These are somewhat rhetorical questions.

This is obviously the right answer so one part of me is relieved. But wtf is Yamaha thinking?

OK - on to direct writing the bilge!!!!

Thank you.

 

[meegwell]

I was going to look up exactly the same thing! Saved me the effort!

This is not how the 2016 operates. Strange that they changed it to require the key to be in the boat. Mine doesn't need this. That said, I added a 2nd bilge pump (#35 in my list of mods) wired directly to the battery, and I always have my boat connected to shore power while sitting in the water.

This will be me soon.

 

[meegwell]

This is not how my 2020 242SE operates either. See this prior discussion and video:

Whats crazy is mine is not the run-every-few-minutes type. It is a float design and I know that from testing it with the shore water hose.

 

[Quad]

Whats crazy is mine is not the run-every-few-minutes type. It is a float design and I know that from testing it with the shore water hose.

Very weird, it's almost like they were in a transitional period, leveraged the float-activated pumps, but forgot to wire it directly to the battery.