CoVID-19 / SARS-CoV-2 Information and Questions

[TX_Mercenary]

@Mesa50 ivermectin works! holy crap I can attest to that. I know several folks who took them along with zinc and recovered miraculously from COVID early 2021

 

[Jim_in_Delaware]

@Mesa50 ivermectin works! holy crap I can attest to that. I know several folks who took them along with zinc and recovered miraculously from COVID early 2021

I am glad you fully recovered from the virus. Respectfully, however, there is no large-scale clinical study that I am aware of that shows that Ivermectin works as a treatment for Covid. That is the purpose of the study.

Personally, while I believe that Ivermectin is a fantastic drug for the prescribed uses, for both man and animal, I would be surprised if the clinical studies show it to be effective against Covid. Covid is a virus and I would think that the anti-virals would make more sense from a treatment perspective. If I were looking for a pill to take after contracting Covid, I would look at Pfizer’s Paxlovid (nirmatrelvir tablets and ritonavir tablets, co-packaged for oral use) that recieved an EUA from FDA on 12/22/2021.

Jim

 

[tabbibus]

NIH.gov

I must have been confused by the nih.gov website that it came from, and the web address “nih.gov” url contained in the article. That and the fact that ivermectin has been used safely and effectively for nearly 2 decades to protect people with limited access to doctors in 3rd world countries. In fact, that’s why scientists discovered it “may” work against covid. Back in 2020 when the cable news networks were telling us that 3rd world countries had better death rates than we did, so therefore the American medical system sucked and we needed to be more like Argentina…..it was discovered that places with almost no medical care were in fact fairing quite well. The common link was ivermectin. The only real question was, is it something that needs to be built up in the system prior to being infected, or will it work after symptoms begin? But quite simply put, ivermectin is only dangerous for people with American cable tv. And that’s pretty damn racist, if we think it’s safe enough for the billions brown people all over the globe who take it like a vitamin supplement, but it’s going to kill us white people. We’ll mostly white, my grandparents were native Americans.

That website is pubmed. It's a repository of all indexed and published articles. And that article is an opinion piece. I'm not about to relitigate the merits of ivermectin or lack thereof. We've done this already.

 

[tabbibus]

I’m one of them. I took the human grade at the onset of symptoms, and other than a positive test saying I really had covid, it was the least sick I’ve ever been. I went back for another test 3 days later because I still didn’t believe I actually had covid, but the second test was also positive. Just a very mild scratchy throat, and a slightly runny nose for 2 days. I’ve had much worse colds. I’m also really big into vitamins, so I think that helped as well. My wife however is one of the 10’s of thousands who has been injured by the vaccine. She has muscle twitching and other neurological issues. She was told that it could be ALS at first, but thank God it wasn’t. Her neurologist said that it couldn’t be vaccine related. Fortunately she found a support group for the vaccine injured. They all have similar stories and issues. Within a short period of receiving the vaccine, various problems occur, and their doctors refuse to report them as vaccine related. These aren’t slow onset issues either. It’s flip a switch and awful neurological problems start. She, and everyone in her support group are very offended by the idea of being thought of as anti-vaxers, because they were all very pro vaccine until their injuries. Hell they got the vaccine, so how can they be anti-vaxers. There seems to be a mass effort to suppress information regarding people with adverse reactions in order to avoid “vaccine hesitancy”. Everyone in the vaccine injured group says their doctors repeat the same phrase when they say it started after the vaccine, like robots “vaccines are safe and effective, and the covid 19 vaccines are among the safest”……. It’s like the Stepford wives of doctors.

Yeah man. We doctors are just mindless idiots. Not sure why people come to the hospital risking their lives by being treated by us robots. Better to stay home, me thinks.

 

[TX_Mercenary]

@Jim_in_Delaware I never had COVID. didnt realize it was prescribed for animals, until i looked it up. But while i was praying for some of the colleagues who had COVID, 8 out 8 folks explained to me their experiences with what their doctor used to prescribe them helped them exponentially from different parts of the US none of these people knew each other. i knew this is only a small sample of the population in my little bubble but it looks promising in my opinion. The idea of being given something also given for live stock doesnt sound appealing but their physician thought it was their best course of action at the time of injection. Not that ethnicity matters 2 of them were white and the rest ranging from middle east to south east asia, and 1 hispanic

 

[TX_Mercenary]

not all doctors are the same or treat their patients the same. not sure why some doctors assume they are always right and their path is always the right way. you guys went through the vigorous studies but not all go through the same training nor does every doctor has the same experience.

 

[Julian]

I’m one of them. I took the human grade at the onset of symptoms, and other than a positive test saying I really had covid, it was the least sick I’ve ever been. I went back for another test 3 days later because I still didn’t believe I actually had covid, but the second test was also positive. Just a very mild scratchy throat, and a slightly runny nose for 2 days. I’ve had much worse colds. I’m also really big into vitamins, so I think that helped as well. My wife however is one of the 10’s of thousands who has been injured by the vaccine. She has muscle twitching and other neurological issues. She was told that it could be ALS at first, but thank God it wasn’t. Her neurologist said that it couldn’t be vaccine related. Fortunately she found a support group for the vaccine injured. They all have similar stories and issues. Within a short period of receiving the vaccine, various problems occur, and their doctors refuse to report them as vaccine related. These aren’t slow onset issues either. It’s flip a switch and awful neurological problems start. She, and everyone in her support group are very offended by the idea of being thought of as anti-vaxers, because they were all very pro vaccine until their injuries. Hell they got the vaccine, so how can they be anti-vaxers. There seems to be a mass effort to suppress information regarding people with adverse reactions in order to avoid “vaccine hesitancy”. Everyone in the vaccine injured group says their doctors repeat the same phrase when they say it started after the vaccine, like robots “vaccines are safe and effective, and the covid 19 vaccines are among the safest”……. It’s like the Stepford wives of doctors.

Let's pretend covid and vaccines don't exist. How many people each year develop muscle spasms or neuropathy? My brother (super healthy bikes 20-30 miles a day) developed it....before being vaccinated. Had it developed AFTER being vaccinated perhaps he'd be with your wife and their support group.
The fact is, when you vaccinate 250 million Americans (not sure what the number is....but a big number) you are going to have a large number of people who naturally develop a problem that would have begun with or without the vaccine.
There is no correlation between the vaccine and these symptoms other than coincidence. Does that mean there aren't side effects....no. But just because x thousand people have muscle spasms doesn't mean the vaccine caused them. The CDC does look at these side effects and compares them to normal rates and flags increases to look into.
I think one can also add to the VAERS data oneself.....(not sure about that).

And Israel isn't in the top 30 countries for vaccination. I think you are looking at a subset of their population. They are at 65.1% according to worldmeter. When I asked my staff there why so low, it's because kids aren't getting it very quickly yet (began at the end of November), and orthodox population isn't.

 

[Can0n11]

Changing meds here, How about sildenafil as a treatment? 25mg 3x a day. For men and women.

Sildenafil for treating patients with COVID-19 and perfusion mismatch: a pilot randomized trial

SARS-CoV-2 seems to affect the regulation of pulmonary perfusion. Hypoperfusion in areas of well-aerated lung parenchyma results in a ventilation–perfusion mismatch that can be characterized using subtraction computed tomography angiography (sCTA). ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[tabbibus]

Changing meds here, How about sildenafil as a treatment? 25mg 3x a day. For men and women.

Sildenafil for treating patients with COVID-19 and perfusion mismatch: a pilot randomized trial

SARS-CoV-2 seems to affect the regulation of pulmonary perfusion. Hypoperfusion in areas of well-aerated lung parenchyma results in a ventilation–perfusion mismatch that can be characterized using subtraction computed tomography angiography (sCTA). ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

It's not a bad idea in theory. But so far hasn't panned out. Per the article you linked, it didn't work (see below). On the patients I've seen it used here, no change either. I did see hypotension with it so if anything it made things worse

 

[tabbibus]

not all doctors are the same or treat their patients the same. not sure why every doctor assume they are always right and their path is always the right way. you guys went through the vigorous studies but not all go through the same training nor does every doctor has the same experience.

You know, at least in my group and my ICU we do not assume we are right. We are constantly looking at literature and data to see what we can learn and do differently.

Also, funny you say that not all have the same experience. Most docs who prescribe ivermectin are not pulmonary or critical care doctors. Yes, I know about FLCCC, that's a whole other conversation.

 

[Mesa50]

Changing meds here, How about sildenafil as a treatment? 25mg 3x a day. For men and women.

Sildenafil for treating patients with COVID-19 and perfusion mismatch: a pilot randomized trial

SARS-CoV-2 seems to affect the regulation of pulmonary perfusion. Hypoperfusion in areas of well-aerated lung parenchyma results in a ventilation–perfusion mismatch that can be characterized using subtraction computed tomography angiography (sCTA). ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Slidenafil is also the active ingredient in viagra, so a sildenafil treatment could be fun!

 

[tabbibus]

I was I no way referring to you. I’m sure that if a patient came to you and said “I’ve never had these symptoms before in my life, and they began 48 hours after my second vaccine”… you would take them seriously, and not just try to convince them they had anxiety.

Fair. And I apologize if I snapped. A common trend now is that if we don't accept fringe theories or treatment that has poor data, then we are the bad guys. It gets tiresome. We just wanna make people better, man. That's all.

 

[Troch1]

not all doctors are the same or treat their patients the same. not sure why every doctor assume they are always right and their path is always the right way. you guys went through the vigorous studies but not all go through the same training nor does every doctor has the same experience.

Speaking as a doctor, any doctor who thinks they are always correct is one you should avoid. Any doc treating patients based solely on their own experience is also one you should avoid.

Individual Experience is important, but the ultimate skill is to understand that no matter how many thousands of people I treat, my total treatment population for any one disease will not be enough to determine the best available treatment. That is where research comes in, along with the ability to understand proper methodology and limitations on individual studies.

No one doctor can KNOW anything based solely on their own patient panel. They need to continue to learn and stay abreast of high quality studies and how to interpret them. Only THEN should one feel confident they are doing what’s best for their patients. It’s so much more than just going to school for a long time and then showing up to the office every day.

 

[Can0n11]

It's not a bad idea in theory. But so far hasn't panned out. Per the article you linked, it didn't work (see below). On the patients I've seen it used here, no change either. I did see hypotension with it so if anything it made things worseView attachment 169979

Agreed, wasn't sildenafil originally tested as a hypertension drug? I was going to run this by my wife as a BP treatment, not sure how that would shake out. My PA-C kid is seeing large numbers of people with Covid like symptoms daily. She caught it last month and had head cold like symptoms again. Thanks for the work all of you do in this battle.
A friend of ours was just ventilated yesterday. He gave a DNR and 5 days on the vent request. Not a good situation.

 

[TX_Mercenary]

serious question, as i am not in the medical profession, what if a pulmonary or critical care doctor did prescribe them? Do you feel only Pulmonary or Critical Care specialist are the only ones qualified for justifications of the use of ivermectin?

 

[Jim_in_Delaware]

@Jim_in_Delaware I never had COVID. didnt realize it was prescribed for animals, until i looked it up. But while i was praying for some of the colleagues who had COVID, 8 out 8 folks explained to me their experiences with what their doctor used to prescribe them helped them exponentially from different parts of the US none of these people knew each other. i knew this is only a small sample of the population in my little bubble but it looks promising in my opinion. The idea of being given something also given for live stock doesnt sound appealing but their physician thought it was their best course of action at the time of injection. Not that ethnicity matters 2 of them were white and the rest ranging from middle east to south east asia, and 1 hispanic

Don't think of drugs prescribed to animals as a negative. There are many drugs that are approved for use in both animals and humans. Many antibiotics are use to treat both humans and animals. I tell my students that one time (about two years ago) before bed my wife asked me to get her medication, so I went downstairs (we kept them in one of the kitchen cabinets). About 30 minutes later I gave our dog his antiobiotic as prescribed by our Veterinarian. When I opened the vial and got out the medication, it dawned on me that his medication looked just like what I had given to my wife 30 minutes earlier. Definitely an aw shit moment! However, as I compared the two vials, both my wife and my dog had prescriptions for the exact same drug and even the same dosage strength, the only difference was that they were made by different generic manufacturers.

Ivermectin is another drug that is prescribed to both humans and animals. It is an anti-parasitic drug approved in humans for treatment of certain tropical diseases (not common in the U.S., but common in many tropical countries.) Ivermectin tablets are approved at very specific doses to treat some parasitic worms, and topical (on the skin) formulations are used for head lice and skin conditions like rosacea. In this country, Ivermectin is most commonly used in the treatment of animals to treat or prevent parasites.

Jim

 

[ripler]

Slidenafil is also the active ingredient in viagra, so a sildenafil treatment could be fun!

Not really. There would be nothing worse than walking around with a woody all day and nothing to do with it.

 

[tabbibus]

serious question, as i am not in the medical profession, what if a pulmonary or critical care doctor did prescribe them? Do you feel only Pulmonary or Critical Care specialist are the only ones qualified for justifications of the use of ivermectin?

My point was not clear. What I was trying to imply is that most prescribers of these meds do not have any interaction with truly sick COVID patients.

 

[adrianp89]

You know, at least in my group and my ICU we do not assume we are right. We are constantly looking at literature and data to see what we can learn and do differently.

Also, funny you say that not all have the same experience. Most docs who prescribe ivermectin are not pulmonary or critical care doctors. Yes, I know about FLCCC, that's a whole other conversation.

Curious your thoughts on Peter McCullough.

 

[tabbibus]

Curious your thoughts on Peter McCullough.

Don't know who he is. Cursory Google search revealed some remarks that seem inaccurate and disingenuous. I would have to read the context of his remarks and what he actually is saying.