CoVID-19 / SARS-CoV-2 Information and Questions

[Bruce]

@Farny, myocarditis is a risk with infection including viruses and vaccines against them. Study after study has found the risk of myocarditis to be many fold lower from vaccination than from unvaccinated SARS-CoV-2 infection.

For example, among 40M people in the UK “We estimated an extra two (95% confidence interval (CI) 0, 3), one (95% CI 0, 2) and six (95% CI 2, 8) myocarditis events per 1 million people vaccinated with ChAdOx1, BNT162b2 and mRNA-1273, respectively, in the 28 days following a first dose and an extra ten (95% CI 7, 11) myocarditis events per 1 million vaccinated in the 28 days after a second dose of mRNA-1273. This compares with an extra 40 (95% CI 38, 41) myocarditis events per 1 million patients in the 28 days following a SARS-CoV-2 positive test. We also observed increased risks of pericarditis and cardiac arrhythmias following a positive SARS-CoV-2 test. Similar associations were not observed with any of the COVID-19 vaccines, apart from an increased risk of arrhythmia following a second dose of mRNA-1273.”

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-021-01630-0

The Moderna vaccine is almost the same as the Pfizer vaccine but dosed at 100mcg versus 30mcg. Moderna has consistently had more adverse effects and longer lasting efficacy

Arguing against fully FDA approved vaccines with some of the largest studies in history and billions of doses administered seems more than a little silly.

 

[Jim_in_Delaware]

The above isn’t a scientific article (Ron Johnson round table), its a nonsensical display of statistics. Only could get a couple of minutes into the video, before the b.s. level became too high for me. Speaking of nonsensical conclusions, did you also know that there is a correlation between eating ice cream and drowning?

Asking if any drug of vaccine that we take is 100% safe is not the right question to ask. As with most things in life, we should be asking ourselves “do the benefits outweigh the risks?” In the case of mRNA, the data clearly shows that for the general public, the benefits of being vaccinated outweigh the potential side effects. This is why the vaccines were approved by the FDA. Does this mean there are no side effects and possible risks of death to any specific person? No, it does not. It does mean, however, the risk of side effects and possible death from Covid is much higher that the risks posed by taking the vaccine.

Jim

 

[Farny]

The above isn’t a scientific article (Ron Johnson round table), its a nonsensical display of statistics. Only could get a couple of minutes into the video, before the b.s. level became too high for me. Speaking of nonsensical conclusions, did you also know that there is a correlation between eating ice cream and drowning?

Asking if any drug of vaccine that we take is 100% safe is not the right question to ask. As with most things in life, we should be asking ourselves “do the benefits outweigh the risks?” In the case of mRNA, the data clearly shows that for the general public, the benefits of being vaccinated outweigh the potential side effects. This is why the vaccines were approved by the FDA. Does this mean there are no side effects and possible risks of death to any specific person? No, it does not. It does mean, however, the risk of side effects and possible death from Covid is much higher that the risks posed by taking the vaccine.

Jim

Agreed - do the benefits outweigh the risks? Informed consent critical…. Would like to see a physical copy of the safety insert for informed consent. It should contain all the massive study data so people can make an informed personal health choice.

 

[Jim_in_Delaware]

Agreed - do the benefits outweigh the risks? Informed consent critical…. Would like to see a physical copy of the safety insert for informed consent. It should contain all the massive study data so people can make an informed personal health choice.

Apologies, but it’s not clear to me what you are talking about. Informed consent for what?

For the clinical trails, here is a link to the FDA guidance on Informed Consent. Every participant (or their representative signs one of be part of a clinical trial.) Here are the basic elements, although there may be additional ones depending on the study:

PART 50 -- PROTECTION OF HUMAN SUBJECTS
Subpart B - Informed Consent of Human Subjects

Sec. 50.25 Elements of informed consent.

(a) Basic elements of informed consent. In seeking informed consent, the following information shall be provided to each subject: (1) A statement that the study involves research, an explanation of the purposes of the research and the expected duration of the subject's participation, a description of the procedures to be followed, and identification of any procedures which are experimental. (2) A description of any reasonably foreseeable risks or discomforts to the subject. (3) A description of any benefits to the subject or to others which may reasonably be expected from the research. (4) A disclosure of appropriate alternative procedures or courses of treatment, if any, that might be advantageous to the subject. (5) A statement describing the extent, if any, to which confidentiality of records identifying the subject will be maintained and that notes the possibility that the Food and Drug Administration may inspect the records. (6) For research involving more than minimal risk, an explanation as to whether any compensation and an explanation as to whether any medical treatments are available if injury occurs and, if so, what they consist of, or where further information may be obtained. (7) An explanation of whom to contact for answers to pertinent questions about the research and research subjects' rights, and whom to contact in the event of a research-related injury to the subject. (8) A statement that participation is voluntary, that refusal to participate will involve no penalty or loss of benefits to which the subject is otherwise entitled, and that the subject may discontinue participation at any time without penalty or loss of benefits to which the subject is otherwise entitled.

For drugs and vaccines, the inserts (including safety information) is part of the labeling and is reviewed by the FDA as part of the drug/vaccine review process. If you really wanted to review the insert, you could ask your healthcare provider, Regarding consent, in a non-mandated setting, you give your consent prior to getting the vaccine. As the Covid vaccines are currently approved products, ALL of the safety and effectiveness data has been reviewed by the PhD and MD reviewers at the FDA.

If we are talking about consent and mandates, we already had many page of this earlier in the thread, so I'm not going to rehash any of them.

If you don't know whom to trust on the safety issue of these vaccines, talk to you own doctor. He/she can help you make an informed decision based on your own personal health history.

Jim

 

[Farny]

Apologies, but it’s not clear to me what you are talking about. Informed consent for what?

For the clinical trails, here is a link to the FDA guidance on Informed Consent. Every participant (or their representative signs one of be part of a clinical trial.) Here are the basic elements, although there may be additional ones depending on the study:

PART 50 -- PROTECTION OF HUMAN SUBJECTS
Subpart B - Informed Consent of Human Subjects

Sec. 50.25 Elements of informed consent.

(a) Basic elements of informed consent. In seeking informed consent, the following information shall be provided to each subject: (1) A statement that the study involves research, an explanation of the purposes of the research and the expected duration of the subject's participation, a description of the procedures to be followed, and identification of any procedures which are experimental. (2) A description of any reasonably foreseeable risks or discomforts to the subject. (3) A description of any benefits to the subject or to others which may reasonably be expected from the research. (4) A disclosure of appropriate alternative procedures or courses of treatment, if any, that might be advantageous to the subject. (5) A statement describing the extent, if any, to which confidentiality of records identifying the subject will be maintained and that notes the possibility that the Food and Drug Administration may inspect the records. (6) For research involving more than minimal risk, an explanation as to whether any compensation and an explanation as to whether any medical treatments are available if injury occurs and, if so, what they consist of, or where further information may be obtained. (7) An explanation of whom to contact for answers to pertinent questions about the research and research subjects' rights, and whom to contact in the event of a research-related injury to the subject. (8) A statement that participation is voluntary, that refusal to participate will involve no penalty or loss of benefits to which the subject is otherwise entitled, and that the subject may discontinue participation at any time without penalty or loss of benefits to which the subject is otherwise entitled.

For drugs and vaccines, the inserts (including safety information) is part of the labeling and is reviewed by the FDA as part of the drug/vaccine review process. If you really wanted to review the insert, you could ask your healthcare provider, Regarding consent, in a non-mandated setting, you give your consent prior to getting the vaccine. As the Covid vaccines are currently approved products, ALL of the safety and effectiveness data has been reviewed by the PhD and MD reviewers at the FDA.

If we are talking about consent and mandates, we already had many page of this earlier in the thread, so I'm not going to rehash any of them.

If you don't know whom to trust on the safety issue of these vaccines, talk to you own doctor. He/she can help you make an informed decision based on your own personal health history.

Jim

I am talking about the required insert that comes with the shot. Not consent for the clinical trial study. For example when you go to your local pharmacy for a shot. The folded safety data sheet required for any medicine. Would like to see what’s printed on it.

 

[Bruce]

@Farny, if you go get vaccinated then you get the package insert and have the opportunity to discuss any adverse effects you may be concerned about with your pharmacist.

The package insert (label), dosing guides and approval documents are all online as well. For example (COVID-19 Vaccine, mRNA)

 

[Jim_in_Delaware]

The Moderna COVID-19 Vaccine is now marketed as Spikevax, and here is a link to it's package insert. There is also a patient package insert as well.

Jim

 

[crazy4life]

I am talking about the required insert that comes with the shot. Not consent for the clinical trial study. For example when you go to your local pharmacy for a shot. The folded safety data sheet required for any medicine. Would like to see what’s printed on it.

You can read actual Pfizer Clinical Trial Data if it would help you with your decision. Good news is there were only 275 strokes.

https://www.phmpt.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/reissue_5.3.6-postmarketing-experience.pdf

 

[Farny]

You can read actual Pfizer Clinical Trial Data if it would help you with your decision. Good news is there were only 275 strokes.

https://www.phmpt.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/reissue_5.3.6-postmarketing-experience.pdf

Wow and that study is just thru Feb 2021. Wonder what the numbers look like adding the next 1.9 years?

 

[Farny]

The Moderna COVID-19 Vaccine is now marketed as Spikevax, and here is a link to it's package insert. There is also a patient package insert as well.

Jim

Thanks - reading through that is enlightening.

 

[Bruce]

You can read actual Pfizer Clinical Trial Data if it would help you with your decision. Good news is there were only 275 strokes.

https://www.phmpt.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/reissue_5.3.6-postmarketing-experience.pdf

That is not clinical trial data. Not sure why you would misrepresent it as such.

Regardless I do appreciate the conclusions. Thanks for sharing.

 

[Jim_in_Delaware]

You can read actual Pfizer Clinical Trial Data if it would help you with your decision. Good news is there were only 275 strokes.

https://www.phmpt.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/reissue_5.3.6-postmarketing-experience.pdf

One really needs to look at cost/benefit when deciding to take (or not take) a drug or a vaccine. In the data noted above, it's also important to look at the number of doses administered and the benefit to the folks who have taken the vaccine. From the article linked, "It is estimated that approximately 126,212,580 doses of BNT162b2 were shipped worldwide from the receipt of the first temporary authorisation for emergency supply on 01 December 2020 through 28 February 2021."

Thus, if one assume 90% of the doses were administered, this would be in excess of 113 million doses. One would then have to decide if the number of deaths and serious injuries prevented by vaccination outweighed the risks of all reported serious adverse events? In our country (and many others) the public health experts have reviewed in depth the data and decided "yes".

Jim

 

[crazy4life]

One really needs to look at cost/benefit when deciding to take (or not take) a drug or a vaccine. In the data noted above, it's also important to look at the number of doses administered and the benefit to the folks who have taken the vaccine. From the article linked, "It is estimated that approximately 126,212,580 doses of BNT162b2 were shipped worldwide from the receipt of the first temporary authorisation for emergency supply on 01 December 2020 through 28 February 2021."

Thus, if one assume 90% of the doses were administered, this would be in excess of 113 million doses. One would then have to decide if the number of deaths and serious injuries prevented by vaccination outweighed the risks of all reported serious adverse events? In our country (and many others) the public health experts have reviewed in depth the data and decided "yes".

Jim

95% of the population in the United States with children has decided that they looked at the data and decided “NO” when it comes to vaccinating their children with a booster that was tested on 8 lab mice. Hmmmmm me thinks that they all can’t be silly conspiracy nutjobs. 53% of the adult population said “NO” Thats millions of people who decided not to believe big Pharma and their propagandists. Just because some committee of 10 or 15 people decided to approve something does not make it a good idea.

you should really do some research into the thousands of people that have been vaccine injured or had their children or loved ones die from the vaccine, maybe there’s not 1 million of them but there’s thousands of them and these people can get no compensation or recourse with their injuries.Look up how many people have been compensated by the vaccine injury fund and get back to me.

There are people committing suicide because they can’t live with the injuries. They can’t be treated by doctors because the doctors are told by the owners of their practice that these injuries don’t exist.

Meanwhile Pzizer and the rest of the vaccine manufacturers have pocketed over 100 BILLION DOLLARS from vaccine sales. if you don’t think that king of money has any influence on this subject you are not being objective in my opinion.

I do like having a debate with you though. You seem to be able to have a discussion without resorting to name calling and trying to browbeat people into seeing that your opinion is the only one that matters.

Good Day

 

[Bruce]

95% of the population in the United States with children has decided that they looked at the data and decided “NO” when it comes to vaccinating their children with a booster that was tested on 8 lab mice. Hmmmmm me thinks that they all can’t be silly conspiracy nutjobs. 53% of the adult population said “NO” Thats millions of people who decided not to believe big Pharma and their propagandists. Just because some committee of 10 or 15 people decided to approve something does not make it a good idea.

Someone fell off the conspiracy theorist’s wagon!

It is ok to debate science but please try a little honesty.

 

[crazy4life]

Someone fell off the conspiracy theorist’s wagon!

Was wondering when I would hear from you and your bullshit.

NIH patent payments are not secret or the data would not be available to the public.

I am still waiting for an answer to my question about your statement above. It is either a blatant lie or you just don't have a clue what you are talking about. I prefer to believe you are not lying on purpose and I do think from my experience you just make up shit and expect everyone to believe it. (picturing you furiously typing at your keyboard while searching google.)

Anxiously awating your answer. Please hurry because I do have an extremely large order of Aluminum foil hats I have to process.

 

[Bruce]

I am still waiting for an answer to my question about your statement above.

Your posting of the data clearly demonstrates that it is not secret. If you wish to see more details then legislation would be the best path to do so although that does seem awfully big government of you.

Would you like to revise your vaccination percentage lies with the actual numbers?

 

[crazy4life]

Your posting of the data clearly demonstrates that it is not secret. If you wish to see more details then legislation would be the best path to do so although that does seem awfully big government of you.

Would you like to revise your vaccination percentage lies with the actual numbers?

Good God man. You really are special. I posted the data? There are no names or companies on the so called data. Please show them to me. Surely the google master can show me the data that I posted. The money and companies are S E C R E T. I said it slowly that time. I posted that this info is secret and you said they were not. "NIH patent payments are not secret or the data would not be available to the public" .WHERE IS THE DATA oh enlightened one.

Once again I see reading comprehension is not your thing. I posted the booster uptake numbers, Right from the Big gubment.

COVID-19 Booster Dose Vaccination Coverage and Factors Associated with Booster Vaccination among Adults, United States, March 2022

COVID-19 Booster Dose Vaccination Coverage, USA

wwwnc.cdc.gov

Please do not hold your breath while you are stamping your feet because you could die and then what fun would I have.

 

[Julian]

Far fewer people are boosted for Covid than got the original vaccine. Are you two discussing different things?

Of course big pharma makes money on vaccines. If they didn't they wouldn't have the capitol to develop new vaccines.

Just like how health insurance companies make big money off all of us, and big oil etc etc. Surprise!

 

[seanmclean]

You can read actual Pfizer Clinical Trial Data if it would help you with your decision. Good news is there were only 275 strokes.

https://www.phmpt.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/reissue_5.3.6-postmarketing-experience.pdf

Are you under the impression that 275 CVAs (205 of which occurred in the elderly) across Europe in this timeframe are an unusual amount?

 

[Farny]

Are you under the impression that 275 CVAs (205 of which occurred in the elderly) across Europe in this timeframe are an unusual amount?

Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS)

vaers.hhs.gov

@crazy4life