RIVA Maptuner X ECU Reflash: Throttle Response and Speed Control

[J-RAD]

I don't presume to know all that's going on here in this conflict, I only know what I've seen here recently. For some reason I feel the urge to say something... however ignorant I may prove to be. I just feel bothered by the situation and thought that by sharing it might aid in some conflict resolution. I'm not a physiologists or trained in any like manner, but I can bullsh** with the best.

Anyway, from an outsider's perspective maybe it's a little more clear to see the cause of the rift between the two offended parties. It's clear @gmtech16450yz that somewhere along the lines of your interaction with @swatski you've personally offended him. Whether intentional or not it happened... he bluntly stated as much in this thread. As a matter of fact I'm guilty of taking a little offense myself to the callousness of your post about his "wife's feelings". I think the tone of your reply treated him as ignorant... which was not well received. Which in turn has lead me to swing a bit more it @swatski's defense here.

Now offense can go both ways, all to often the person whose offended becomes so without notifying the person whose done the offending. They tend to burden themselves with angst and act annoyed and defensive while the offending party carries on seemingly unaffected. What I'm leading to with this whole post is that there's a need for communication here...

@gmtech16450yz I'm not educated enough on engine tuning to say whose right or wrong here with regard to the Maptuner... I don't know if that really needs to be made clear anyway, @swatski is just sharing his impressions of it... I'm here to learn from everyone's incites and share, the same as you. What matters here, and what you need to take responsibility for is the fact that during your course of sharing your knowledge with someone here you've offended them. Nobody expects you to apologize for sharing things that are in fact true, but if the manner in which it was shared is offensive then that deserves an apology. I don't think that's happened yet.

Again, I'm not privy to all your interactions. I don't mean to presume this is all one sided. Clearly you feel that there has been some retaliation that has tainted your stats and perhaps you feel that there's an apology needed there...

As much as we all love to see drama unfold, I'd rather see everyone here blissfully get along and continually gush over one another's mods and achievements. You both have great and insightful things to share. Sorry if offence has been taken to any of my words. All I can say is I encourage you two and others to communicate with one another, be specific in what you expect from the individual to resolve the conflict. In the future, respect one another's opinions, be sensitive to their pride and humble your own. Bla bla bla...

Back to your regularly scheduled programming.

 

[swatski]

I don't presume to know all that's going on here in this conflict, I only know what I've seen here recently. For some reason I feel the urge to say something... however ignorant I may prove to be. I just feel bothered by the situation and thought that by sharing it might aid in some conflict resolution. I'm not a physiologists or trained in any like manner, but I can bullsh** with the best.

Anyway, from an outsider's perspective maybe it's a little more clear to see the cause of the rift between the two offended parties. It's clear @gmtech16450yz that somewhere along the lines of your interaction with @swatski you've personally offended him. Whether intentional or not it happened... he bluntly stated as much in this thread. As a matter of fact I'm guilty of taking a little offense myself to the callousness of your post about his "wife's feelings". I think the tone of your reply treated him as ignorant... which was not well received. Which in turn has lead me to swing a bit more it @swatski's defense here.

Now offense can go both ways, all to often the person whose offended becomes so without notifying the person whose done the offending. They tend to burden themselves with angst and act annoyed and defensive while the offending party carries on seemingly unaffected. What I'm leading to with this whole post is that there's a need for communication here...

@gmtech16450yz I'm not educated enough on engine tuning to say whose right or wrong here with regard to the Maptuner... I don't know if that really needs to be made clear anyway, @swatski is just sharing his impressions of it... I'm here to learn from everyone's incites and share, the same as you. What matters here, and what you need to take responsibility for is the fact that during your course of sharing your knowledge with someone here you've offended them. Nobody expects you to apologize for sharing things that are in fact true, but if the manner in which it was shared is offensive then that deserves an apology. I don't think that's happened yet.

Again, I'm not privy to all your interactions. I don't mean to presume this is all one sided. Clearly you feel that there has been some retaliation that has tainted your stats and perhaps you feel that there's an apology needed there...

As much as we all love to see drama unfold, I'd rather see everyone here blissfully get along and continually gush over one another's mods and achievements. You both have great and insightful things to share. Sorry if offence has been taken to any of my words. All I can say is I encourage you two and others to communicate with one another, be specific in what you expect from the individual to resolve the conflict. In the future, respect one another's opinions, be sensitive to their pride and humble your own. Bla bla bla...

Back to your regularly scheduled programming.

I'm a little busy and will have to respond later, but undoing all my dislikes now - albeit I find it kind of funny.
I appreciate what you are saying.
Let me know if missed any!

@gmtech16450yz I have no interest in dealing with you. Good luck, Sir.

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[swatski]

I don't presume to know all that's going on here

Well, going back to my original intentions here...

There are few performance mods available for 1.8 N/A engines and fewer yet work and/or are practical enough to be implemented by an average Joe. I would list "ribbon delete" and the "L13" as two mods that are solid, in my book.
(That is besides pump mods, sealing/porting etc.)

For boaters at elevation, I have had numerous asks/PMs from dealers who are trying to help their clients - to go beyond the obvious, ribbon delete/L13. In those cases, impeller repitch is definitely considered great help - and should be added to the short list.
(The OEM is still the best as far as I know, albeit the 6CW is said to perform the best there - that is the single engine OEM impeller used in twins - for elevation).
Beyond those 2-3 items there is not much more that can easily be done, TTBOMK, which brings me to the ECU reflash.

In this regard, based on my first hand experience with my old 190 and my current AR240 (both N/A 1.8s) I think the current version of the RIVA/Maptuner X set up is probably the best choice (for a recreational boater like myself) based on compatibility, performance, reliability, risks, etc. I have run their reflash on and off over the past 200 hours with zero issues. Of the 3-4 programs I tested somewhat extensively I have a clear favorite, in my tuner it is called "torque 102" or something.

The X is not a panacea, nor breakthrough, but for anyone looking for a bit of an edge in performance and major improvement in throttle response curve it is a pretty good way to go, if you ask me.
And that's that.


EDIT: no personal affiliation with any of those vendors (zero affiliation, of any kind).

--

 

[SamCF]

Well, going back to my original intentions here...

There are few performance mods available for 1.8 N/A engines and fewer yet work and/or are practical enough to be implemented by an average Joe. I would list "ribbon delete" and the "L13" as two mods that are solid, in my book.
(That is besides pump mods, sealing/porting etc.)

For boaters at elevation, I have had numerous asks/PMs from dealers who are trying to help their clients - to go beyond the obvious, ribbon delete/L13. In those cases, impeller repitch is definitely considered great help - and should be added to the short list.
(The OEM is still the best as far as I know, albeit the 6CW is said to perform the best there - that is the single engine OEM impeller used in twins - for elevation).
Beyond those 2-3 items there is not much more that can easily be done, TTBOMK, which brings me to the ECU reflash.

In this regard, based on my first hand experience with my old 190 and my current AR240 (both N/A 1.8s) I think the current version of the RIVA/Maptuner X set up is probably the best choice (for a recreational boater like myself) based on compatibility, performance, reliability, risks, etc. I have run their reflash on and off over the past 200 hours with zero issues. Of the 3-4 programs I tested somewhat extensively I have a clear favorite, in my tuner it is called "torque 102" or something.

The X is not a panacea, nor breakthrough, but for anyone looking for a bit of an edge in performance and major improvement in throttle response curve it is a pretty good way to go, if you ask me.
And that's that.


EDIT: no personal affiliation with any of those vendors (zero affiliation).

--

I don't have experience with the Maptuner, but definitely agree with the rest of your statements.

My list would be: Ribbon delete, add ventilation to engine compartment, Lucky 13, re-pitch impeller for max rpm, tune if you have the cash.

 

[FloJet]

So in a nut shell this comes down to likes and dislikes? WOW. Go to facebook for that BS. So childish man. Taking online personal is not good man. Who cares who gets more likes or dislikes. We shouldn't live life by worrying what others think about us. Just be yourself. I respect both of your inputs but you did reference personal statements that had no place in this forum. Substance and objectivity I will defend that all day. But when it deviates from that, it becomes childish.

 

[DavisAR195]

I don't have experience with the Maptuner, but definitely agree with the rest of your statements.

My list would be: Ribbon delete, add ventilation to engine compartment, Lucky 13, re-pitch impeller for max rpm, tune if you have the cash.

@SamCF I was thinking about running a reverse blower set up to my CAI but was curios if that would pose any concerns with ventilation? My thought is that it would help cycle the air in the engine compartment better. Thoughts?

@swatski I know you have a different set up and it's not apples to apples but did you ever experience any heat soak running on the stage 1 tune running WOT after any amount of time. I have a 2017 AR195 and considering the Maptuner X, but wondering if would be better to upgrade the IC first?

 

[SamCF]

@SamCF I was thinking about running a reverse blower set up to my CAI but was curios if that would pose any concerns with ventilation? My thought is that it would help cycle the air in the engine compartment better. Thoughts?

@swatski I know you have a different set up and it's not apples to apples but did you ever experience any heat soak running on the stage 1 tune running WOT after any amount of time. I have a 2017 AR195 and considering the Maptuner X, but wondering if would be better to upgrade the IC first?

If I had a 195 I would run a cold air intake up to the engine compartment ventilation hole behind the swim deck seats and do the Fizzle intercooler with dedicated line and high flow strainer. It should be able to pull up to the rev limiter in any weather with that setup.

 

[swatski]

@swatski I know you have a different set up and it's not apples to apples but did you ever experience any heat soak running on the stage 1 tune running WOT after any amount of time. I have a 2017 AR195 and considering the Maptuner X, but wondering if would be better to upgrade the IC first?

No heat soak in N/As and no overheat issues as long as the pumps are not cavitating. But all 192s and probably most 195s can benefit from a IC upgrade.
@SamCF is THE MAN to follow with the 195.

I think a lot of performance potential is locked up in pump sealing/porting/blueprinting. One member @erj1452002 has done it with @WFO Performance, pretty awesome work - just as an example.
https://jetboaters.net/threads/jet-pump-blueprinting-how-its-done-by-wfo-performance.12127/

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[Nsboost]

I don't presume to know all that's going on here in this conflict, I only know what I've seen here recently. For some reason I feel the urge to say something... however ignorant I may prove to be. I just feel bothered by the situation and thought that by sharing it might aid in some conflict resolution. I'm not a physiologists or trained in any like manner, but I can bullsh** with the best.

Anyway, from an outsider's perspective maybe it's a little more clear to see the cause of the rift between the two offended parties. It's clear @gmtech16450yz that somewhere along the lines of your interaction with @swatski you've personally offended him. Whether intentional or not it happened... he bluntly stated as much in this thread. As a matter of fact I'm guilty of taking a little offense myself to the callousness of your post about his "wife's feelings". I think the tone of your reply treated him as ignorant... which was not well received. Which in turn has lead me to swing a bit more it @swatski's defense here.

Now offense can go both ways, all to often the person whose offended becomes so without notifying the person whose done the offending. They tend to burden themselves with angst and act annoyed and defensive while the offending party carries on seemingly unaffected. What I'm leading to with this whole post is that there's a need for communication here...

@gmtech16450yz I'm not educated enough on engine tuning to say whose right or wrong here with regard to the Maptuner... I don't know if that really needs to be made clear anyway, @swatski is just sharing his impressions of it... I'm here to learn from everyone's incites and share, the same as you. What matters here, and what you need to take responsibility for is the fact that during your course of sharing your knowledge with someone here you've offended them. Nobody expects you to apologize for sharing things that are in fact true, but if the manner in which it was shared is offensive then that deserves an apology. I don't think that's happened yet.

Again, I'm not privy to all your interactions. I don't mean to presume this is all one sided. Clearly you feel that there has been some retaliation that has tainted your stats and perhaps you feel that there's an apology needed there...

As much as we all love to see drama unfold, I'd rather see everyone here blissfully get along and continually gush over one another's mods and achievements. You both have great and insightful things to share. Sorry if offence has been taken to any of my words. All I can say is I encourage you two and others to communicate with one another, be specific in what you expect from the individual to resolve the conflict. In the future, respect one another's opinions, be sensitive to their pride and humble your own. Bla bla bla...

Back to your regularly scheduled programming.

Ive been lurking for a month as I hold the same opinion on the Maptuner as GMtech. It’s beyond overpriced (look up hp tuners cost and credit system. Or efilive and their credit system… maptuner is highway robbery).. there is no such thing as a one tune fits all.. and without doing data logging and emailing those to the guy writing the tunes, your getting far from a optimized tune. And personally I believe the edit license is so expensive because they don’t want people see what changes they made.

Swatski is literally angry that GMtech is spilling facts on the canned tunes and the maptuner.
You all want to jump GMtech for being immature about his likes/dislikes… but is it not just as immature to dislike all GMtechs posts because he isn’t a fan boy of Riva?

seriously tho.. people like GMtech is the reason anyone has any aftermarket options. Someone who explores options, digs deeper, and tests things out (for better or worse). If there weren’t guys doing this you would all be riding stock skis.

My Riva tuned ski is dog ass rich (we run boats a bit richer but not to the point that we gas the oil doen. Doesn’t take a degree to tell by the plugs and oil. I own a trans am that I built the motor.. I built the trans.. I built the turbo kit.. and I tuned it.. it runs 5s in the 1/8 (8s in the 1/4) like a bracket car. Oh an I’m doing it with stock rods, stock crank, stock heads with 30psi of boost. Tuning isnt rocket science.

I believe Riva is the end all tuners about as much as I believe Dr Fauci cares more about lives than he does money.

Are their tunes bad?I’m not saying that. Is there fair amount of room for improvement? Definitely. Beyond a shadow of a doubt.

sorry for necromancing these topics. But this all seems insane.If it was Gladdis trying to improve on products already available, or showing you their short comings, you would all praise him. But some random car guy better not try to find new more sensible ways to do things? Lol sheesh people.

 

[SamCF]

Competition drives prices. Maptuner is not overpriced for what it does because there is no competitor. I ran Dean's tune which is arguably the best tune on the market. Before I sold the boat I swapped to Maptuner. The boat ran just as fast, but with a little better low end.

 

[J-RAD]

Ive been lurking for a month as I hold the same opinion on the Maptuner as GMtech. It’s beyond overpriced (look up hp tuners cost and credit system. Or efilive and their credit system… maptuner is highway robbery).. there is no such thing as a one tune fits all.. and without doing data logging and emailing those to the guy writing the tunes, your getting far from a optimized tune. And personally I believe the edit license is so expensive because they don’t want people see what changes they made.

Swatski is literally angry that GMtech is spilling facts on the canned tunes and the maptuner.
You all want to jump GMtech for being immature about his likes/dislikes… but is it not just as immature to dislike all GMtechs posts because he isn’t a fan boy of Riva?

seriously tho.. people like GMtech is the reason anyone has any aftermarket options. Someone who explores options, digs deeper, and tests things out (for better or worse). If there weren’t guys doing this you would all be riding stock skis.

My Riva tuned ski is dog ass rich (we run boats a bit richer but not to the point that we gas the oil doen. Doesn’t take a degree to tell by the plugs and oil. I own a trans am that I built the motor.. I built the trans.. I built the turbo kit.. and I tuned it.. it runs 5s in the 1/8 (8s in the 1/4) like a bracket car. Oh an I’m doing it with stock rods, stock crank, stock heads with 30psi of boost. Tuning isnt rocket science.

I believe Riva is the end all tuners about as much as I believe Dr Fauci cares more about lives than he does money.

Are their tunes bad?I’m not saying that. Is there fair amount of room for improvement? Definitely. Beyond a shadow of a doubt.

sorry for necromancing these topics. But this all seems insane.If it was Gladdis trying to improve on products already available, or showing you their short comings, you would all praise him. But some random car guy better not try to find new more sensible ways to do things? Lol sheesh people.

Gee, I made myself sound awfully sensible playing meditator... Lol! I think I negated my neutral position when I later handed out a "golden douchebag award" to GMtech... Seemed deserving at the time. Probably a bit of a violation if the ethical standards here on my part.

I don't think anyone doubts GMtech has some personal/professional knowledge about tuning. That's great. He's also shared some creative mods with the group. In this instance also don't believe @swatski deserved to have his arse raked over the coals for his mod or the open review of it. It seemed like a harsh attack vs constructive criticism.

Water under the bridge at this point... maybe?

 

[swatski]

Ive been lurking for a month as I hold the same opinion on the Maptuner as GMtech. It’s beyond overpriced (look up hp tuners cost and credit system. Or efilive and their credit system… maptuner is highway robbery).. there is no such thing as a one tune fits all.. and without doing data logging and emailing those to the guy writing the tunes, your getting far from a optimized tune. And personally I believe the edit license is so expensive because they don’t want people see what changes they made.

Swatski is literally angry that GMtech is spilling facts on the canned tunes and the maptuner.
You all want to jump GMtech for being immature about his likes/dislikes… but is it not just as immature to dislike all GMtechs posts because he isn’t a fan boy of Riva?

seriously tho.. people like GMtech is the reason anyone has any aftermarket options. Someone who explores options, digs deeper, and tests things out (for better or worse). If there weren’t guys doing this you would all be riding stock skis.

My Riva tuned ski is dog ass rich (we run boats a bit richer but not to the point that we gas the oil doen. Doesn’t take a degree to tell by the plugs and oil. I own a trans am that I built the motor.. I built the trans.. I built the turbo kit.. and I tuned it.. it runs 5s in the 1/8 (8s in the 1/4) like a bracket car. Oh an I’m doing it with stock rods, stock crank, stock heads with 30psi of boost. Tuning isnt rocket science.

I believe Riva is the end all tuners about as much as I believe Dr Fauci cares more about lives than he does money.

Are their tunes bad?I’m not saying that. Is there fair amount of room for improvement? Definitely. Beyond a shadow of a doubt.

sorry for necromancing these topics. But this all seems insane.If it was Gladdis trying to improve on products already available, or showing you their short comings, you would all praise him. But some random car guy better not try to find new more sensible ways to do things? Lol sheesh people.

I don't know if your post deserves an answer, but whatever.

How many 1.8 yamaha engine have you tuned? How many 1.8 yamaha engines has GMTECH tuned? How many have Riva guys tuned? WHat would you use to read the Yamaha ECU and data logging? RIva software?

And just being curious: what does that have to do with dr Fauci? Do you know him? Are you also a virologist?

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[FSH 210 Sport]

Arrogance I can live with and even find engaging when its someone’s personality coming through in text form. That said, there are ways of saying things without being overly rude.

No easy segway. I experienced something interesting but not all that unexpected. Long story about lake levels and needing my boat trailer to grab a hot tub. Suffice it to say that I had run my boat across the lake at 8am this morning when it was 36 degrees out. Winter hat, ski googles, ski jacket, and ski gloves actually made it better than bearable to my surprise.

Ok so for the data I have to share. Sustained WOT over 7.7k rpms this morning at 36 degrees f which is higher rpm than I have ever seen in my 1.8l NA CARB (4star) engines. WOT for me is normally under 7.5k rpms in the middle of the summer with high heat and humidity. It takes a 50-60 degree drop in temperature with half the humidity to get a couple more hundred rpm and with that a couple more mph (engines warmed up in both cases with the same load). It would seem that the CARB engines have the same rev limit but there is insufficient O2 for the sensors, or too much heat for the CAT, or air intake temp sensor impacts top rpm, or thermo sensor/switch is impacted. Any best educated guesses? Not sure how that may help with tuning or mods for more normal operating temps in the CARB engines but she ran great this morning.

A 6 person hot tub also fits perfectly between the fenders on a 24ft shorelander trailer and the winch comes in handy.

Your density altitude lowered due to the lower air temp and less humidity which increased cylinder pressure and the ECU added more fuel accordingly within the scope of the map so the engine delivered more hp.