Some water getting in Resolved

[drewkaree]

I may be an overthinker, but I can point to this project as proof that I am ALSO guilty of not thinking at all!

I got enough done to be able to test this out, and I'm going with "passes with flying colors!", even though I can't finish it until next week.

I'll post video later, but time stamps show this keeps water out for at least 2 hours, and it's not even finished! Not sure how the 4200 will work, unsure if the amount used will be enough, and temps are kind of low, so unsure of how it will cure. If it's unsuccessful, I can remove the weld nuts and redo them next weekend when I finish the rest of them.

Main takeaway, IT WORKS!

 

[HangOutdoors]

@drewkaree This looks fantastic and I will be going in this direction. But I took a knee on this for now. Figured I will be opening up the hatch again to put in second bilge pump soon anyhow. I wanted to get the boat water ready. With so many mods recently done, I want to get out on the water and test them. I put white silicone around the hatch and screwed it back together last night and secured all hose and tube clamps.

 

[rad1026]

I'm trying to track down a leak also. I am seeing the bilge pump a few times here and there and also get a couple gallons when I pull the plug. I noticed yesterday before I pulled the plug I let the boat sit for a while with the bow up pretty high. Water was dripping out the drain plug. I just got a new plug and I can see its not sealing good. I put it in snug. I don't want to over tighten it. It just seems like a wimpy jet ski design. It is definitely letting water in. Is there any kind of upgrade for a different drain plug. This was a new plug with a new o-ring.

 

[drewkaree]

I'm trying to track down a leak also. I am seeing the bilge pump a few times here and there and also get a couple gallons when I pull the plug. I noticed yesterday before I pulled the plug I let the boat sit for a while with the bow up pretty high. Water was dripping out the drain plug. I just got a new plug and I can see its not sealing good. I put it in snug. I don't want to over tighten it. It just seems like a wimpy jet ski design. It is definitely letting water in. Is there any kind of upgrade for a different drain plug. This was a new plug with a new o-ring.

Lube your O-ring on your drain plug, and MAKE SURE you aren't cross-threading the plug when you put it in. That o-ring, like most plumbing fittings, does not need to be wrenched in any tighter than finger-tight+. If it does leak, it will be because the o-ring is damaged, or the fitting is damaged, in that order of likelihood. If you need to replace the o-ring, swap it out with one of the interior drain plugs for a temporary fix to allow you to use the boat until you can source a replacement.

It is VERY easy to cross-thread that plug. It sounds like that might be happening to you.

That’s the absolute first thing to verify. If that's good, then your next plan of action is to start at the front of the boat and work your way back to the stern for areas that may be causing you problems.

Verify that all the fittings on the OUTSIDE of the boat are not cracked/loose, and are in good condition. Check the rub rail all around the boat for damage or missing chunks. If not, move to the inside of the boat for the next possible culprits.

First area, check your anchor locker. Search the forums for anchor locker leak threads to compare against your boat and how it looks.

Second area, remove your cup holders, front to back, to see if they are connected to any tubing. Some DO NOT need it if they drain to the bilge, unless YOU don't want them draining to the bilge. Some will drain into your storage compartments. Fix those to have them drain to where you want them to drain. Cup holders shouldn't be your biggest problem, but they contribute to your problems.

This cleanout tray would be the third area to check, IMO. Using a hose or a large pitcher of water, open the cleanout tray hatch so you can see underneath your cleanout tray, then pour water over the area, and look to see if your tray is allowing water to leak under the tray into the bilge. If so, address it if you so desire.

You should go over these areas often, ideally before/after every outing, but at least address things from least problematic to greatest, to help you as you're trying to determine the severity of your issues. If you have a glaring issue, obviously tackle that first.

Last item is to check your interior drain fittings and plugs. If they leak around the fitting and allow water into the bilge, they might just need to be resealed, or possibly replaced. Mine had NO sealant on the ski locker fitting, and they damaged the fitting with the mounting screws, so it's getting a replacement, and I now have a replacement plug and o-ring if the need arises.

 

[rad1026]

I really appreciate the reply. Believe me I have been reading and tightening and sealing. Just not having much result. Yeah, I think its time to fill the bilge and see if I can really tell where the water is coming in from. I have really looked at the drain plug and the seat and everything looks like it is in good shape. I did use a new drain plug and o-ring and it threads in tight with no cross threading. I mean you can see the o-ring seated in there but still leaking so obviously its not seated like it needs to be. I will look at the cup holder lines. I know the two on the back swim area on the port side, the tube was loose and I thought I got it back on there good, but maybe I didn't. I will fill the bilge this weekend and see if I get any results.

 

[drewkaree]

I really appreciate the reply. Believe me I have been reading and tightening and sealing. Just not having much result. Yeah, I think its time to fill the bilge and see if I can really tell where the water is coming in from. I have really looked at the drain plug and the seat and everything looks like it is in good shape. I did use a new drain plug and o-ring and it threads in tight with no cross threading. I mean you can see the o-ring seated in there but still leaking so obviously its not seated like it needs to be. I will look at the cup holder lines. I know the two on the back swim area on the port side, the tube was loose and I thought I got it back on there good, but maybe I didn't. I will fill the bilge this weekend and see if I get any results.

Check the "threads" on the transom plug fitting itself. I put "threads" in quotes, because it's not what you would consider normal threading, it's staggered blocks of plastic in a thread-like pattern inside that fitting, if yours is the same type as mine. One of those might be boogered up due to past cross-threading or something like that. Lubing that o-ring is a big help, but don't rely on a spray, like WD-40, use something else, plenty of guys on the forums rely on a pool gasket lube. Vaseline works just fine as well.

Yours sounds like mine - I can see a bit of the o-ring, even when all is seated well. The only difference between yours and mine is that mine doesn't leak.

Additionally, are you saying that your transom drain plug leaks water while it's screwed in (but on the trailer)?

 

[rad1026]

yeah, before I pulled it after trailering from about 4 hours in the water. I waited to pull the plug until the area was clean and dry and yes, water dripping from the plug while screwed in.

 

[drewkaree]

yeah, before I pulled it after trailering from about 4 hours in the water. I waited to pull the plug until the area was clean and dry and yes, water dripping from the plug while screwed in.

So check the "threads", and for sure lube your o-ring. That will allow it to seat and seal better, and that may be the end of that problem. For the water that's getting into the bilge, start with the stuff I mentioned, and I'm sure there's others who will chime in with their ideas as well, or what you've already found out by searching around the forums.

I'm going into my third year of ownership, and my boat hasn't sank yet, so there's hope for you too! ?

To be quite honest, mine may be doing the exact same thing yours is doing, but to my mind, your issue is that water is getting OUT of the boat, which is a good thing. KEEPING it out might mean your drip could completely disappear, and you're only noticing it because you have water where it's not supposed to be - IN your boat. If it's not a steady stream, then it's not likely coming IN as a steady stream as well, but that's to be figured out after checking out the simple stuff first.

 

[drewkaree]

NOTICEABLY thinner! Headed to the lake, my quest continues tomorrow! Yes, I fear the same thing, it's becoming a sickness ?

 

[RobbieO]

So, has a consensus been reached on where in install the high water alarm? I'm going for the engine comp. I will add an additional bilge pump when I replace my scupper (on order), and as @Julian has stated in his scupper video, that will happen when it's actually needed.

 

[hapyfishrmn]

@drewkaree did you end up using rubber washers? Looks like on the picture the stainless ones are installed.

 

[drewkaree]

@drewkaree did you end up using rubber washers? Looks like on the picture the stainless ones are installed.

Yes, I did. I finalized this yesterday, using some 5200 fast cure. I neglected to take pics of the final result because rain was rolling in, and we had to pack up to head home as well.

I ended up using the stainless AND the rubber washers. I stopped at a Fleet Farm store and bought some 5/16 rubber washers. Those went against the cleanout tray itself, then the stainless washers, and the bolt was ran through both of them. The longer bolts that I had to get had smaller heads for some reason, and they compressed the washer and deformed it too much for my liking. I would have used a 1/4" rubber washer, and that likely would have been perfectly fine, but they only had 3, and they weren't set to get a delivery from that vendor for 2 weeks, and there was no guarantee that he would be filling that particular size washer. Since I already had the stainless, I just doubled them up.

I'm headed back in 2 weeks, so I'll update at that time.

The 4200 fast cure did not hold at all - I didn't do any surface prep, so that was likely the cause of failure. Didn't sand the fiberglass underneath (recommended on the package), and didn't clean off the weld tabs or rough them up for better adhesion (also recommended on the package). The stupid stuff hardened in the tube, and for this application, using the tip is invaluable - this would not have worked EASILY by cutting open the tube to utilize the rest of the 4200. I used the 4200 for other stuff, and used the 5200 to redo the weld nuts after doing the proper prep this time.

 

[hapyfishrmn]

Yes, I did. I finalized this yesterday, using some 5200 fast cure. I neglected to take pics of the final result because rain was rolling in, and we had to pack up to head home as well.

I ended up using the stainless AND the rubber washers. I stopped at a Fleet Farm store and bought some 5/16 rubber washers. Those went against the cleanout tray itself, then the stainless washers, and the bolt was ran through both of them. The longer bolts that I had to get had smaller heads for some reason, and they compressed the washer and deformed it too much for my liking. I would have used a 1/4" rubber washer, and that likely would have been perfectly fine, but they only had 3, and they weren't set to get a delivery from that vendor for 2 weeks, and there was no guarantee that he would be filling that particular size washer. Since I already had the stainless, I just doubled them up.

I'm headed back in 2 weeks, so I'll update at that time.

The 4200 fast cure did not hold at all - I didn't do any surface prep, so that was likely the cause of failure. Didn't sand the fiberglass underneath (recommended on the package), and didn't clean off the weld tabs or rough them up for better adhesion (also recommended on the package). The stupid stuff hardened in the tube, and for this application, using the tip is invaluable - this would not have worked EASILY by cutting open the tube to utilize the rest of the 4200. I used the 4200 for other stuff, and used the 5200 to redo the weld nuts after doing the proper prep this time.

I just cleaned the surface of my clean out tray and have some weld nuts on weather stripping on order. I'm surprised the 4200 didn't hold up. That's what I had planned on using as well. Just in case they needed changed at some point, it would be possible to remove.

 

[drewkaree]

I just cleaned the surface of my clean out tray and have some weld nuts on weather stripping on order. I'm surprised the 4200 didn't hold up. That's what I had planned on using as well. Just in case they needed changed at some point, it would be possible to remove.

I would say the 4200 not working was entirely my fault - user error. I noticed the underside of the fiberglass was nice and slick. I never considered that it would need to be prepped - sand the area around the holes to abrade the surface for better adhesion, and wipe down the area with acetone afterwards. Same with the weld nuts, use some acetone to wipe them down well, they may have had something on them.

The temps could have possibly been the issue as well. Forecast said I should have been good to go, but overnight, temps dropped to the mid-30's, and the following day was crappy as well, never really climbed above 40 for 2 more days after applying, so the cure may have never been optimal either.

The 4200 worked perfectly fine on my scupper valve, anchor locker drain fitting, and the lower thru-hull fitting for the drain on the cleanout tray hose, so I wouldn't say you shouldn't use it, but to re-do it with my tube would have been a particularly messy event, as it had hardened in the tip, and I had to cut open the lower section of the tube to get at the rest of the usable product. Once you see the weld nuts, you'll see the dilemma. I would have had to use a popsicle stick or something to apply the 4200 to the weld nuts, which would have had nice strings of that stuff all over the place. IMO, using the nozzle with the tip trimmed to give a small-ish dot of 4200 is the best way to apply it, and you'll still end up somehow getting it in a few places you never wanted it. Wear a throwaway shirt, DO NOT HESITATE TO CHANGE GLOVES TO A FRESH PAIR, lay a towel down around the area to hopefully catch anything, and have a trash can or old bucket around to ditch all your paper towels right after using them. That stuff is like baby shit for this project - how the heck did it get here, or there? Seriously, in my hair?!?!? ?

I had the wife helping me. I think a helper is a godsend in this instance. She would dot the weld tab with 4200, and I would take it ever so gingerly, trying not to get any on myself or an unwanted place before screwing it down, and then tighten it down while she waited for me to stop swearing when one of them wouldn't easily thread on as I was contorted and turning red ?

I used 5200 fast cure because I had it on hand. I got one use out of the tube. The bottom of the metal tube got a pinhole leak about halfway in, and that was likely my fault as well. Get something just large enough to hold the tube, and fill it with warm water to help it warm up and flow better. Also, make sure you poke that entire seal out on the tube to help it flow properly - the plastic nozzle is what should determine the actual amount coming out, but you want to feed that nozzle as best you can.

 

[hapyfishrmn]

Found these washers online, has anyone used these bonded type before?

https://www.amazon.com/Stainless-Neoprene-Marine-Bolt-Supply/dp/B01N49WA60/

 

[drewkaree]

Those look like they would be great for this application. Even if they separate, and come unbonded, you still have the two items being held in place by the bolt. I would try those without hesitation.

I spent almost that much on 24 rubber washers, so add in the cost of my stainless washers, and I'm well beyond the price of those. That's a good find!

 

[RobbieO]

Those look like they would be great for this application. Even if they separate, and come unbonded, you still have the two items being held in place by the bolt. I would try those without hesitation.

I spent almost that much on 24 rubber washers, so add in the cost of my stainless washers, and I'm well beyond the price of those. That's a good find!

The fact that they are concave probably keeps them loaded, and keeps the screws from loosening.

 

[rad1026]

Was still working on gel coat repairs yesterday afternoon and decided to pull my transom rub rail just to inspect for any holes or areas where the top and bottom were not sealed well. The seam looked perfect. I put a bead of silicone down it anyway. None of the screws had and sealant on them at all. So I put some clear silicone on them as I put it back together. Don't think it will make much difference but at least I know where I am NOT leaking from.

 

[FSH 210 Sport]

Just sealed mine up a few weeks ago... I used denatured alcohol to clean the surfaces before apply the silicone. Seems like it is holding up good so far and will provide a good seal against water. From the factory there were some pretty big gaps where there was not silicone under the clean out tray... Just had a trace of water come out last time out. I think as long as you silicone was still in place it will be good. Did you clean the surface with a degreasing agent like alcohol before apply the silicone? The OEM silicone on my boat came off pretty easily.

I think I may have another entry point of water around the deck hatch in the bow... get more water in the bilge when I use the bucket to wash down the deck and every other hatch is very snug. Will have to tighten up the twist latch on that bow hold and see what happens.

Update: After sealing up the clean out tray with silicone, and no deck wash down ZERO water came out. What I did find that the main deck drain L head fitting was leaking a small stream into the engine bay / bilge. This was a funny set of circumstances… I had bought some eye wear cleaning stuff that comes in a little white container, I had told myself to put that container somewhere else and did not. Anyway my friends and I were cleaning up the boat after coming home from the lake and my friend who was cleaning the inside said, hey, there’s a big puddle of water in here. I told himjust flush the drain out with the hose as something must have plugged it up. He tried that and said the water was just flowing back into the boat. ?. I got up in there and tried the hose, water came back at me… looked and couldn’t see anything… stuck my finger in there and hit something solid, that little white container fit perfectly inside the deck drain. The water was about 4” deep, and on a hunch I popped the engine cover and could see a small stream of water. Fished out the container and the water drained right out.

Pulled the L head drain fitting out….this was the proverbial can of worms….. the L head fitting is way too long and there is no way to get it out without raking the threads on the hull, I wondered why the threads looked kinda buggered before I pulled it out. But also to facilitate getting this L head fitting out, I had to pull the fuel tank access and its base, which I found was sealed as well as the clean out tray. Cleaned everything up and applied copious amount of silicone sealer to the surfaces and re installed. I was not able to get a perfect seal, but water flow was significantly reduced around the L head fitting. I‘ll be ordering a “short” version that east marine sells to replace that fitting. Also will order two more and a couple of other short fittings to go in the corners as I’m going to add two more deck drains in the back corners, just like the 190 series FSH boats have.

Checked the deck hatch in between the bow seats the other day, the lift and twist latch was not pulling that hatch lid down onto the gasket material. Grabbed an allen wrench to loosen the set screw on the latch piece, one turn tighter =better, one more turn tighter and now I can feel the latch pull down on the gasket material=hopefully best. I‘ll report back again after the next few trips out to let you know if that solved my issues.

Lots of great posts in this thread! This issue and our quest to solve it reminds me of Scrat trying to get his nut.

 

[hapyfishrmn]

Well all the parts came in and then I realize the machine screws are a little bigger than the holes drilled. That wouldn't normally be an issue, but some of them are really close to the edge and some have been filled & redrilled. This is making me cautious and thinking I should get a 3/16” sized screw. I should have been paying more attention to your post @drewkaree.
If anyone is interested in doing the same project with bigger hardware I have a fair amount. I might see if I can return some. The weld nuts I found on eBay, likely stuck with them.