Some water getting in Resolved

[drewkaree]

Well all the parts came in and then I realize the machine screws are a little bigger than the holes drilled. That wouldn't normally be an issue, but some of them are really close to the edge and some have been filled & redrilled. This is making me cautious and thinking I should get a 3/16” sized screw. I should have been paying more attention to your post @drewkaree.
If anyone is interested in doing the same project with bigger hardware I have a fair amount. I might see if I can return some. The weld nuts I found on eBay, likely stuck with them.

Couple things - when you mention that the holes are a little small, what is that in reference to, the cleanout tray itself, or the fiberglass decking underneath? Can you shoot me some pics? If it's the cleanout tray, I wouldn't worry in the least about it, but I'll await your response (and pics, hopefully) as to why. If it's the fiberglass decking, I'd really need to see a pic in order to reasonably comment. I don't know if I have any pics to match up to what you could show, but I can snap a few next weekend. I have a picture in my head as to what you might be referring to, but actual comparison and working through this via pics would be the best way to progress forward on this.

I will mention this - I had a similar issue as you, I thought the holes were going to be too small, but I went ahead with it (and can show you pics of how it turned out), and in the end, all turned out perfectly fine. There are a few holes that I thought would be suspect, even after fixing/addressing them, but the gasket (which you have) is really the superstar in all of this, and the bolts and weld nuts are really nothing more than something to compress the gasket and hold it tight to the fiberglass decking. Screws COULD be used, but the reason I went with the bolts is so that I would have something that wouldn't strip out on me like at least a few screws seem to do for everyone. The combo of something solid to thread into (the weld nuts), and the little tab on the weld nuts is enough to keep everything together and solid, with no future worries of stripping out as well as a reasonably solid connection to compress the gasket.

I believe that If your machine screws are 1/4-20, that's the easy route to go, and the easiest to get any replacements in the future, if necessary.

I have two other things to share, once the final part hits my doorstep - I learned my lesson when I went to order my scupper drain tubing, and it seems to be sold out everywhere, unless I want to pay an arm and a leg. As it is, the part I've been waiting on has been delayed almost two weeks, and it's finally made it to my STATE yesterday, so it should be delivered tomorrow, hopefully, or at the latest, on Monday.

One thing I will mention is that I swapped out the cleanout tray drain fitting with the one shown in post #109, and I couldn't be more happy with that fitting. I'll shoot you a link via PM in case you want to put in an order, it really is noticeably different, and I swapped it out with the original stainless replacement fitting, and used that new old stainless fitting (does that make sense?) in place of the old plastic lower cleanout tray drain fitting. I know that sounds very confusing when reading it, but pics when I'm done will show what I did. Then end result is that I have stainless fittings on both ends of the cleanout tray drain hose.

Pics! I'll do my level best to help you work through this!

 

[drewkaree]

Topside cleanout tray drain fittings I had/have. This is the original plastic, which always left (to me, anyway) an annoying amount of water in the area:




What I first bought to replace that thick-ass fitting (this is now my LOWER cleanout tray drain fitting, 4200'd to the bottom of the boat:




And my final final solution, my TOPSIDE cleanout tray drain fitting, and I'm as happy as someone could be about a stupid piece of metal:



That final fitting is also concave, so everything drains nicely inward, down to the tube, and out of the boat. One more piece to be delivered, and I'll be finished with THIS problem, and on to the next ? These pics and measurements don't really do justice to how much different it looks compared to how it was originally - the difference is noticeable to my wife, which should bear witness to just how evident it is....honey, put down that frying pan, it was just a joke!

 

[hapyfishrmn]

I already started browsing the web for some #10-32 sized weld nuts, washers, and machine screws. This should allow me to use them in the existing holes without making the holes bigger. I'll snap a picture tomorrow for reference.
I looked at the drain fitting and wondered if I should take it out while it's open. The tubing that is in there very secure on the fitting. Could be siliconed...? Sometimes if it works it maybe best to leave it alone. I do like the way the metal looks in comparison to the plastic. The good thing is with only using the gasket I don't see the need to silicone too. Taking this off and replacing the drain in the future will be less of a hassle, no more scraping silicone.

 

[drewkaree]

I already started browsing the web for some #10-32 sized weld nuts, washers, and machine screws. This should allow me to use them in the existing holes without making the holes bigger. I'll snap a picture tomorrow for reference.
I looked at the drain fitting and wondered if I should take it out while it's open. The tubing that is in there very secure on the fitting. Could be siliconed...? Sometimes if it works it maybe best to leave it alone. I do like the way the metal looks in comparison to the plastic. The good thing is with only using the gasket I don't see the need to silicone too. Taking this off and replacing the drain in the future will be less of a hassle, no more scraping silicone.

My experience was that the topside drain fitting had zero sealant on the hose, but it had a good splooge on the lower drain fitting. Not enough to go completely around, just enough to keep the fitting in place, it seemed. If yours is anything like mine, the only reason it feels secure is that the black tubing is so dang stiff, it's a wonder they were able to connect the two fittings, since they weren't in a straight line. I suspect they may have had the fittings offset to try to slow or lessen the water that would shoot back up through there, or it could just be the place they felt like drilling holes on that particular day at the assembly plant.

The ease of removal of the cleanout tray was THE reason I went this route, instead of simply running another bead of silicone around the cleanout tray. The original sealant, in the areas where there was some, didn't seem to have very good adhesion, and multiple people have posted similar comments. Tightening the screws is obviously a fruitless endeavor, since you'll strip the holes out before you can ever get it tight enough. Stress cracks emanating from the screw holes, again, similar to multiple other forum members, led me to consider bolt holes instead, since it seemed to me that it'd be less pressure on the hole itself, and the weld nuts would help to spread that pressure out to the surrounding decking areas.

Really, I understand this might all be a waste of my time compared to a simple bead of silicone, but it seems to be working in practice, and I believe the result is going to be a one-time output of effort for ease of boat management in the future. I'm trying to work hard once, so I can be lazier in the future. Time will tell if I'm just stupid all the time! ?

 

[drewkaree]

Here's how the topside drain fitting looks after installation. The second pic does a decent job of capturing how the concave opening keeps things flowing OUT, instead of the plastic fitting with the rounded edges seeming to make it more difficult.

 

[RobbieO]

Looks great. I guess you guys who boat in saltwater have a lot of water coming over the back. So far, my boat has stayed bone dry (lakes) . Can't wait to install my thru hull drain fitting for the anchor locker, and my scupper valve.

 

[hapyfishrmn]

Here are few pictures of my cleanout hole's that were factory drilled. Some of them have been patched up (not sure with what). I have a few that have not much space to drill and was worried about breaking the hole completely. Might not be a huge deal with the weld but, I'm going cautious and finding a direct match to the whole size.

 

[drewkaree]

Here are few pictures of my cleanout holes that were factory drilled. Some of them have been patched up (not sure with what). I have a few that have not much space to drill and was worried about breaking the hole completely. Might not be a huge deal with the weld but, I'm going cautious and finding a direct match to the whole size.

A few of those look like my anchor locker drain hole, I think it was drilled with a .45 FMJ, y'know, for the cleaner hole than JHP! ?

@zipper pointed out that filling those with 5200 will allow you to redrill them once they're cured, if you wanted to fix the job that should have been done right in the first place.

I had a few on the tray itself that were pretty close. I figured if I drilled them out and it didn't work, I could always fill them and redrill if needed. After screwing them down, it's apparent that the gasket is doing all the work of sealing, and that as long as the bolts hold, and the washers and weld nuts do their part in spreading out the clamping pressure, it wasn't necessary. On your fiberglass decking, you may want to fill and redrill, I agree with you that those are AWFULLY close to the edge. Something else that I did was countersink every bolt hole. I don't have a pic of what it looks like, but when I remove the cleanout tray to finalize everything, I'll try to remember pics for demonstration.

These were my two problem holes, and they DEFINITELY leaned on the center of the cleanout tray when drilling them, because I couldn't get the holes to line up unless I leaned on the center of the tray myself. Also, the new old drain fitting is installed on the tray, circled in pink. That's now my lower drain fitting, and you can see the difference in how the two metal fittings are shaped.









I'd also suggest putting two screws in these locations. The tray is molded to angle down, but there's nothing other than the molded shape to keep it tight to the deck. Thankfully, they splooged sealant in those two areas, otherwise it would have simply poured into the bilge even faster than it did.

 

[drewkaree]

Here's the part I was waiting on. Check valve, gonna be putting that in the cleanout tray drain tube line. I have no idea how it will work, but the design seems to be pretty simple, it's going in vertically, and there's a ball inside. A bar keeps it from falling out when it the open state, and when water enters, it floats the ball upwards, sealing it against an o-ring. I went with the metal one, because it was only $6 more than their plastic version. It's used in brewing, and is supposed to be pressure rated up to 280 psi, so I don't foresee any issues with it as long as I can remember to install it in the proper orientation.

I have no idea what the bad reviews on Amazon seem to be referencing, but the updated description mentions a redesign to address those 3 bad reviews due to mechanical failure, and I'm choosing to ignore the doorknob who said it was too loud. It's warrantied for 3 years, and I'll be putting the screws to it well before it's out of warranty. This will be installed next weekend, along with the tubing for the drain fitting, and my new scupper valve tubing, at which point my bilge should be a lot drier than it used to be.

i Flow H2O Check Valve 1/2" Brass Barbed, Fits 1/2" (ID) Vinyl Braided Tubing,Premium Quality,Potable H2O,Micro Brew,Fish Aquarium FLTR Pumps,Boat Marine,Hydroponics,RV,Hydronic, Wirsbo/ProPex Tubing: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific

i Flow H2O Check Valve 1/2" Brass Barbed, Fits 1/2" (ID) Vinyl Braided Tubing,Premium Quality,Potable H2O,Micro Brew,Fish Aquarium FLTR Pumps,Boat Marine,Hydroponics,RV,Hydronic, Wirsbo/ProPex Tubing: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific

www.amazon.com

 

[RobbieO]

Here's the part I was waiting on. Check valve, gonna be putting that in the cleanout tray drain tube line. I have no idea how it will work, but the design seems to be pretty simple, it's going in vertically, and there's a ball inside. A bar keeps it from falling out when it the open state, and when water enters, it floats the ball upwards, sealing it against an o-ring. I went with the metal one, because it was only $6 more than their plastic version. It's used in brewing, and is supposed to be pressure rated up to 280 psi, so I don't foresee any issues with it as long as I can remember to install it in the proper orientation.

I have no idea what the bad reviews on Amazon seem to be referencing, but the updated description mentions a redesign to address those 3 bad reviews due to mechanical failure, and I'm choosing to ignore the doorknob who said it was too loud. It's warrantied for 3 years, and I'll be putting the screws to it well before it's out of warranty. This will be installed next weekend, along with the tubing for the drain fitting, and my new scupper valve tubing, at which point my bilge should be a lot drier than it used to be.

i Flow H2O Check Valve 1/2" Brass Barbed, Fits 1/2" (ID) Vinyl Braided Tubing,Premium Quality,Potable H2O,Micro Brew,Fish Aquarium FLTR Pumps,Boat Marine,Hydroponics,RV,Hydronic, Wirsbo/ProPex Tubing: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific

i Flow H2O Check Valve 1/2" Brass Barbed, Fits 1/2" (ID) Vinyl Braided Tubing,Premium Quality,Potable H2O,Micro Brew,Fish Aquarium FLTR Pumps,Boat Marine,Hydroponics,RV,Hydronic, Wirsbo/ProPex Tubing: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific

www.amazon.com

View attachment 150103

How has the check valve worked out for you? I always suspected water was coming up through that drain. Can you share the link for the fitting? Thanks!

 

[RobbieO]

For installation, I'll put the bolt through the washer, drop it down through the holes, add a bit of 4200 to the weld nut, get the bolt started in the weld nut, then hold the weld nut in position while I tighten down the bolt. This should draw the weld nut tight to the underside of the decking, compress the 4200 to spread it out and have it make contact with the decking for a reasonably permanent installation. The bolt should hold everything in place while the 4200 cures. In the future, should I need to remove the hatch, the weld nuts should remain in place, allowing for easy removal and reinstallation, as well as give something for the bolt to grab onto. This should (hopefully) ensure the gasket seals completely agains the topside of the boat and keeps water from entering the bilge.

I also got a different drain fitting. The lip is slightly thinner, and the fitting itself is metal. Since it has a gasket, the plan is to remove all the stuff left over from the old plastic drain fitting, add some sealant to the flange of the new fitting and slide it into place, then add the gasket and nut to the bottom side of the fitting, under the cleanout tray. That should be 2 lines of defense from water intrusion in that area, and the fitting should have less water left in the area since it'll be lower than the old plastic one, allowing more water to drain.

View attachment 147626

That looks like the anchor drain fitting, only 1/2" instead of 3/8"

 

[RobbieO]

Topside cleanout tray drain fittings I had/have. This is the original plastic, which always left (to me, anyway) an annoying amount of water in the area:

View attachment 150002


What I first bought to replace that thick-ass fitting (this is now my LOWER cleanout tray drain fitting, 4200'd to the bottom of the boat:

View attachment 150003


And my final final solution, my TOPSIDE cleanout tray drain fitting, and I'm as happy as someone could be about a stupid piece of metal:

View attachment 150004

That final fitting is also concave, so everything drains nicely inward, down to the tube, and out of the boat. One more piece to be delivered, and I'll be finished with THIS problem, and on to the next ? These pics and measurements don't really do justice to how much different it looks compared to how it was originally - the difference is noticeable to my wife, which should bear witness to just how evident it is....honey, put down that frying pan, it was just a joke!

I'm hoping those fittings are one in the same, and you remeasured? I just ordered the same fitting.

 

[drewkaree]

How has the check valve worked out for you? I always suspected water was coming up through that drain. Can you share the link for the fitting? Thanks!

Link is directly above the pic in that post. I'm certain the check valve works, but for my case, I get wash-by past the cleanout plug seals - I definitely don't get anything coming back up past that check valve, and it drains out - works exactly as intended. I've been informed that it's on backorder for some sizes at Amazon right now.

That looks like the anchor drain fitting, only 1/2" instead of 3/8"

They're slightly different in 3 different ways, the first being the size, as you noted.

The second is that the anchor drain fitting I used is domed, like the cleanout drain fitting that I replaced.

The third is that the anchor locker drain fitting is completely threaded (since there is no hose attached). The cleanout tray drain fitting is barbed because it has a hose connected to the end, leading to the drain on the underside of the transom near the nozzle area.

You can see that for the cleanout tray, that lip is 2 mm thinner than the other SS fitting shown in the pic above it. I believe that fitting is the one I used either for the anchor locker, or I replaced the bottom fitting under the transom with that, since I now had it on hand. I don't have access to the boat right now, but I'm almost positive that's what I did, since the bottom cleanout tray drain fitting is plastic as well, since it wouldn't make sense to change the topside plastic out with SS, and leave the bottom plastic as-is.

I'm hoping those fittings are one in the same, and you remeasured? I just ordered the same fitting.

Yes, all pertinent measurements were taken so I could get a matching one. I don't believe they have changed much, since they likely get these fittings by the thousands, but there always exists the possibility.

 

[Julian]

Topside cleanout tray drain fittings I had/have. This is the original plastic, which always left (to me, anyway) an annoying amount of water in the area:

View attachment 150002


What I first bought to replace that thick-ass fitting (this is now my LOWER cleanout tray drain fitting, 4200'd to the bottom of the boat:

View attachment 150003


And my final final solution, my TOPSIDE cleanout tray drain fitting, and I'm as happy as someone could be about a stupid piece of metal:

View attachment 150004

That final fitting is also concave, so everything drains nicely inward, down to the tube, and out of the boat. One more piece to be delivered, and I'll be finished with THIS problem, and on to the next ? These pics and measurements don't really do justice to how much different it looks compared to how it was originally - the difference is noticeable to my wife, which should bear witness to just how evident it is....honey, put down that frying pan, it was just a joke!

Did you post a link to this drain fitting?

 

[RobbieO]

Link is directly above the pic in that post. I'm certain the check valve works, but for my case, I get wash-by past the cleanout plug seals - I definitely don't get anything coming back up past that check valve, and it drains out - works exactly as intended. I've been informed that it's on backorder for some sizes at Amazon right now.



They're slightly different in 3 different ways, the first being the size, as you noted.

The second is that the anchor drain fitting I used is domed, like the cleanout drain fitting that I replaced.

The third is that the anchor locker drain fitting is completely threaded (since there is no hose attached). The cleanout tray drain fitting is barbed because it has a hose connected to the end, leading to the drain on the underside of the transom near the nozzle area.

You can see that for the cleanout tray, that lip is 2 mm thinner than the other SS fitting shown in the pic above it. I believe that fitting is the one I used either for the anchor locker, or I replaced the bottom fitting under the transom with that, since I now had it on hand. I don't have access to the boat right now, but I'm almost positive that's what I did, since the bottom cleanout tray drain fitting is plastic as well, since it wouldn't make sense to change the topside plastic out with SS, and leave the bottom plastic as-is.




Yes, all pertinent measurements were taken so I could get a matching one. I don't believe they have changed much, since they likely get these fittings by the thousands, but there always exists the possibility.

Okay thank you. When I was checking the plastic fitting today, the nut was never tightened at the factory. I also pulled the swim platform cupholders, and those drain hoses were never connected....because they were cut too short and won't reach, so they left them like that. WTF. Luckily I haven't had any water get in my bilge yet. I'm going to replace both drain fittings as well. Thank you for the link.

 

[RobbieO]

Link is directly above the pic in that post. I'm certain the check valve works, but for my case, I get wash-by past the cleanout plug seals - I definitely don't get anything coming back up past that check valve, and it drains out - works exactly as intended. I've been informed that it's on backorder for some sizes at Amazon right now.



They're slightly different in 3 different ways, the first being the size, as you noted.

The second is that the anchor drain fitting I used is domed, like the cleanout drain fitting that I replaced.

The third is that the anchor locker drain fitting is completely threaded (since there is no hose attached). The cleanout tray drain fitting is barbed because it has a hose connected to the end, leading to the drain on the underside of the transom near the nozzle area.

You can see that for the cleanout tray, that lip is 2 mm thinner than the other SS fitting shown in the pic above it. I believe that fitting is the one I used either for the anchor locker, or I replaced the bottom fitting under the transom with that, since I now had it on hand. I don't have access to the boat right now, but I'm almost positive that's what I did, since the bottom cleanout tray drain fitting is plastic as well, since it wouldn't make sense to change the topside plastic out with SS, and leave the bottom plastic as-is.




Yes, all pertinent measurements were taken so I could get a matching one. I don't believe they have changed much, since they likely get these fittings by the thousands, but there always exists the possibility.

Can you share the link for the thinner concave fitting please? I'm running low on mods. ?

 

[RobbieO]

Can you share the link for the thinner concave fitting please? I'm running low on mods. ?

I ended up finding the fittings. I ordered the flat concave one for the top, and the mushroom one for the bottom.

 

[drewkaree]

Did you post a link to this drain fitting?

It's probably on the forums somewhere, I made the mistake of crapping up @HangOutdoors thread instead of dedicating my own to the project.

In any case, these are the two I got - my Amazon history says they were purchased a week apart, which makes sense to what I was thinking.

I used this fitting to replace the lower cleanout tray drain fitting, located under the transom near the nozzles: https://www.amazon.com/NRC-XRC-Stainless-Straight-Thru-Hull/dp/B07VS1ZQBD?th=1&psc=1

I used this fitting as my final replacement for the topside cleanout tray drain fitting: Amazon.com : Marine Part Depot Stainless Steel Thru-Hull with Mushroom Head, Barbed 1/2" : Sports & Outdoors

Between those two fittings, I installed the check valve shown a few posts above, and the link is right above the pic of the check valve.


I may write up a thread with just my fixes, or if you have a better idea to separate it out @Julian, I'm all ears.

 

[RobbieO]

It's probably on the forums somewhere, I made the mistake of crapping up @HangOutdoors thread instead of dedicating my own to the project.

In any case, these are the two I got - my Amazon history says they were purchased a week apart, which makes sense to what I was thinking.

I used this fitting to replace the lower cleanout tray drain fitting, located under the transom near the nozzles: https://www.amazon.com/NRC-XRC-Stainless-Straight-Thru-Hull/dp/B07VS1ZQBD?th=1&psc=1

I used this fitting as my final replacement for the topside cleanout tray drain fitting: Amazon.com : Marine Part Depot Stainless Steel Thru-Hull with Mushroom Head, Barbed 1/2" : Sports & Outdoors

Between those two fittings, I installed the check valve shown a few posts above, and the link is right above the pic of the check valve.


I may write up a thread with just my fixes, or if you have a better idea to separate it out @Julian, I'm all ears.

I ordered all three of them earlier. I guessed what you did, and I was correct! BTW, the reviews were bad on the check valve, but on Amazon it says the check valve has been redesigned. Thanks

 

[drewkaree]

I ordered all three of them earlier. I guessed what you did, and I was correct! BTW, the reviews were bad on the check valve, but on Amazon it says the check valve has been redesigned. Thanks

I saw the same thing, and the redesign. That check valve seems designed to be utilized in a brewing setup, or something far more stressful than what we're using it for. The issue seems to have been the ball/float that was used, and to my mind, if it DOES fail, it's not the end of the world, maybe it would block off the tubing and wouldn't allow water in anymore. Shucks ?

There's other check valves out there, but plastic was the usual material. That was the best metal valve for the cost, that I could find.

If it takes a crap on me, I would consider running the topside fitting to a pisser fitting out the side where the rest are, and sealing shut the lower fitting under the transom.

@FSH 210 Sport had the idea to plug the lower, because the FSH has the drain channels as well, and IMO it's a stupid decision to invite excess water INTO a boat, and I feel the same way about the anchor locker drain.