Stereo upgrade help

[adrianp89]

I would go closet to what is rated, which is probably 80 amps.

I was thinking the same at least on the amps. One of the amplifiers has two fuses on it a 40 amp and a 35 amp does anyone know if I were to add a fuse from the box to the amp would I need a 75 amp fuse or just a 40 amp fuse.

would

 

[Mainah]

Now I am confuzeled. Is one side bridgeable and the other not? I am sure there is a reason but with a couple of glasses of wine after a long week of work it is not immediately apparent to me why there are two different rated fuses. My best mathematicaly supported guess is to fuse the block to that amp at 50 amps. 400 watts/12 volts ~= 33amps. Then factoring in about 85% efficiency at max normal operating current draw and you get ~40 amp max normal operating draw. Now bump it to a 50 amp fuse so it is not blowing the fuse under normal operating conditions all the time. I block fused my JL 400 watt amps with 50 amp fuses.

Conventional wisdom says to do the same and even with some wine in me I think the simple math supports that wisdom. Math does not lie but data does (kind of what I do for a living).

 

[Julian]

This review also had no idea why the two fuses would be different sizes....

http://pasmag.com/car-audio/test-reports/2049-test-report-polk-audio-pa-d40004-amplifier-

Looks to me like a 40 amp in line fuse would be what you want....

 

[robert843]

This review also had no idea why the two fuses would be different sizes....

http://pasmag.com/car-audio/test-reports/2049-test-report-polk-audio-pa-d40004-amplifier-

Looks to me like a 40 amp in line fuse would be what you want....

Great find @Julian I was confused as well when I saw the two different size fuses and thought the same thing to my self that wouldn't the 35 amp just blow first. I have never used Polk amps I'm not a big Polk fan at all usually stick to Orion or JL on the amps but Orion doesn't make marine rated audio that I know of. I was going to go JL but after reading the the specs and reviews that this Polk Amp was producing the power it said it did 500 watts at 4 ohm and 800 watts at 2 ohm it couldn't be past up when I found them on Walmart's web site for almost half the original price at $199. The second amp is a JL MHX300 that will be dedicate just to the subwoofer.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Polk-4CH...54589&wl11=online&wl12=39822657&wl13=&veh=sem

 

[Mainah]

This review also had no idea why the two fuses would be different sizes....

http://pasmag.com/car-audio/test-reports/2049-test-report-polk-audio-pa-d40004-amplifier-

Looks to me like a 40 amp in line fuse would be what you want....

Good so I am not losing it. The author of the article states that are output side of the fuses are in parallel. That being the case you should be able to remove one of those fuses and still have it operate normally. Weird. Now if they were in series and the 35 amp was a slow blow and the 40 amp a normal fast blow it might almost make sense (slow blow atc are not very common). With a soft turn on circuit the only way that would make sense is if amps were super sensitive to demand spikes. Oh well if it works it does not really matter.

At any rate this tells me that Polk felt that 40 amps was enough to protect the amp without causing the amp to turn off from both fuses blowing. Since your amp is already fused I still recommend fusing higher at the block (50 amp). Think of it like your home circuit breaker panel with a sub panel in a detached garage.

That said a 40 amp at the block would not hurt and likely never blow but to @Julian point why blow the 2 in the amp and the one in the block all at the same time.

At least you picked the right time of year for the install. Climbing in helm for an extended period when it is hot is brutal.

 

[Speedling]

I did kind of the opposite of @Julian - I ran big Knukonceptz wires to the helm using a large 150Amp breaker:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001PT7XBE/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o08_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I have a bunch of instruments in the helm, so I needed power anyway.
This is what I mean, LOL:
View attachment 66446

You want the main fuse/breaker to be able to handle a maximum load on all devices you would run at the same time. My ballast pumps are the major suckers for power, each of the 4 is fused at 25Amp.


The big 150 Amp Bussmann breaker is by the battery - mounted on the battery compartment wall that I rebuilt, don't have a good pic:
View attachment 66447View attachment 66448

Here is the wire I used, on @Mainah recommendation. This wire is phenomenal.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0050X0LEC/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o07_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
View attachment 66436

Going over the fuel tank is relatively easy, too. I loom everything there and then use a pool noodle to prevent any chafing and rattling.
View attachment 66437View attachment 66438

I ended up manufacturing my own mini-distribution blocks for easy access:
View attachment 66439

Having those all routed and labelled for easy access in the helm lets me disconnect/reconnect the pumps when not needed - for example, when going to Bimini I did not want to think about accidentally activating a pump in the middle of Florida Strait, LOL, etc. Here are various stages of this project:
View attachment 66440View attachment 66441

I run many cables, partially loomed, inside the strbd gunnel - lots of wires... including ballast etc. Taking cup holders out helps.
View attachment 66442


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Did you build the box for the batteries or is that how the new boats come?

 

[swatski]

Did you build the box for the batteries or is that how the new boats come?

Yep, I built it.
I ended up manufacturing an enclosure - space is pretty limited and it was the best option as I need all the room I can get for a big ballast bag I have installed there - 800lbs.
I think it came out really good, and everything held up PERFECTLY well through the Bimini trip, too.
I also moved the fume canister inside the gunnel, and rerouted the fuel hose slightly, but I was also adding a ton of sound deadening into the engine compartment.

Here is the 800 lbs SUMO in there (I usually take it out when we are not surfing):

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[robert843]

Do you guys think the stock speaker line can handle a 2 ohm load? I plan to run four speakers at 2 ohms trying to decide if those four speakers need wires rerun. Heck can the factory wires handle 100 to 125 watts each at 4 ohm?

 

[swatski]

Do you guys think the stock speaker line can handle a 2 ohm load? I plan to run four speakers at 2 ohms trying to decide if those four speakers need wires rerun. Heck can the factory wires handle 100 to 125 watts each at 4 ohm?

I wouldn't replace factory speaker wire. Just add new runs to new locations. I have not heard of anyone reporting any gains by upgrading speaker wire in these boats, plus it is a bit of a PIA (if you can avoid it).

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[robert843]

I wouldn't replace factory speaker wire. Just add new runs to new locations. I have not heard of anyone reporting any gains by upgrading speaker wire in these boats, plus it is a bit of a PIA (if you can avoid it).

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I agree I have desire to run new wire I just do know when you drop the ohms it can make a difference. anyone know what gauge the stock wires are?

 

[Mainah]

The factory wire may be ok. Keep in mind that a small gauge speaker wire won’t just be an issue for the amount of AC current running through the wire it will also impact the amp. The amp will heat up faster/more with wire that is not big enough which is not only less than ideal for the amp but heat also equals wasted energy in this case. If you like bass heavy music, like it loud or in my case a bit of both I do recommend running new speaker wire to high power handling speakers like Polk MM, Wetsounds or JL audio. 16 AWG is sufficient for most speakers but if at it why not run 14 AWG and give your amp the most help you can. 10 to 12 AWG for subs depending on the amp, power handling of the sub and length of run.

 

[robert843]

The factory wire may be ok. Keep in mind that a small gauge speaker wire won’t just be an issue for the amount of AC current running through the wire it will also impact the amp. The amp will heat up faster/more with wire that is not big enough which is not only less than ideal for the amp but heat also equals wasted energy in this case. If you like bass heavy music, like it loud or in my case a bit of both I do recommend running new speaker wire to high power handling speakers like Polk MM, Wetsounds or JL audio. 16 AWG is sufficient for most speakers but if at it why not run 14 AWG and give your amp the most help you can. 10 to 12 AWG for subs depending on the amp, power handling of the sub and length of run.

I took your guys advice and order the power cables you all recommended so I spent yesterday doing a seadek install instead of this. I ordered speaker wire as well. I plan to let my four channel amp power 6 kicker 6.5 speakers so I may leave the front two speakers on the stock speaker line but probably will run the 4 rears in parallel and run new wire since I'm decreasing the ohm load. I figure the front run at 4 ohm and only running 5-8 ft or so should be fine but ordered enough that if i decide to run all new wires I can. I may later add tower speakers and let them pull from the same amp dropping the front run to 2 ohm as well so I may just upgrade the front lines as well in case I decide to do so later.

 

[robert843]

The last thing I have not ordered is my inline fuse. I think I'm going to go the 150 amp circuit breaker route since I'm adding a power block for other items as well. I found this it looks neat just currious if I should just buy the big busman type circuit breaker instead I just like how compact this is and no need to add additional connectors to the 12 volt line.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B06ZYH61WP/ref=ox_sc_act_title_3?smid=A3ARNTPHPM9C80&psc=1

 

[swatski]

The last thing I have not ordered is my inline fuse. I think I'm going to go the 150 amp circuit breaker route since I'm adding a power block for other items as well. I found this it looks neat just currious if I should just buy the big busman type circuit breaker instead I just like how compact this is and no need to add additional connectors to the 12 volt line.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B06ZYH61WP/ref=ox_sc_act_title_3?smid=A3ARNTPHPM9C80&psc=1

So - this is a breaker not a fuse.
Which is good, I think, and the way to go unless you really know what you doing like @Mainah. For the rest of us, if you are like me, I like to be able to shut all the systems off when I want it, and with a fuse it is not ideal as you need to install it in the output wire coming off your house battery switch. Which is not ideal for many reasons.
On the other hand, if you go with a breaker, you can install it in your good Knukonceptz wire and connect direct to house battery with a simple ring terminal connector - kind of fool-proof for semi-competents like myself, LOL. And then you just use it as a switch to open/close that circuit.
That is also why I like Bussmann, which is basically designed with that in mind.

Anyhow, that's how I have it rigged. This way I can shut EVERYTHING off when I park the boat. The only live circuit then is my secondary bilge pump, which is connected by a separate fused circuit direct to house battery.


Just some ideas for you to ponder.

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[robert843]

So - this is a breaker not a fuse.
Which is good, I think, and the way to go unless you really know what you doing like @Mainah. For the rest of us, if you are like me, I like to be able to shut all the systems off when I want it, and with a fuse it is not ideal as you need to install it in the output wire coming off your house battery switch. Which is not ideal for many reasons.
On the other hand, if you go with a breaker, you can install it in your good Knukonceptz wire and connect direct to house battery with a simple ring terminal connector - kind of fool-proof for semi-competents like myself, LOL. And then you just use it as a switch to open/close that circuit.
That is also why I like Bussmann, which is basically designed with that in mind.

Anyhow, that's how I have it rigged. This way I can shut EVERYTHING off when I park the boat. The only live circuit then is my secondary bilge pump, which is connected by a separate fused circuit direct to house battery.


Just some ideas for you to ponder.

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Correct this is a breaker. I do not need to fuse the line as well if I use a breaker right? The breaker should still act the same if it exceeds 150 amps it will pop but instead of replacing a fuse I just reset the breaker at least I think that should all be correct if I'm wrong please let me know.

 

[swatski]

Correct this is a breaker. I do not need to fuse the line as well if I use a breaker right? The breaker should still act the same if it exceeds 150 amps it will pop but instead of replacing a fuse I just reset the breaker at least I think that should all be correct if I'm wrong please let me know.

Correct.
And I also use mine as an on/off switch (for the circuit, not under load, not to turn on/off any devices).

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[Mainah]

When I did my install I was not even aware those breakers existed. I have since seen them thans to this forum and I will certainly use those as my preference in the future as opposed to anl type fuses.

 

[Seadeals]

I learn so much here. I snagged one of those breakers for my “winter project” too. I also liked all the good recommendations of the Clarion XC1410, but decided to experiment with the 2510 since I finally want to add a (subtle) sub -JL Audio M8IB5-SG-TB. I also got the KnuKonceptz 4 gauge wire to run to helm with (hopefully) a blue seas distribution block from Santa.

Also, I never shared, but also made a guard for the batteries. It has large triangular openings as I was worried about venting and wanted to be able to hook up the battery minder alligator clips without removing. I also added a voltage check block with leads to read individual battery voltage (with a meter) without pulling the cover. I labeled that upside down ‘cause that’s how my head is when I put the leads in the holes. The battery switch is just aft of the enclosure.

 

[robert843]

@Seadeals if you have not already purchased the 8 inch sub I would highly recommend grabbing a 10 inch instead. You can always lower the gain on the amp if you feel it's over powering but I think if you get an 8 inch sub you will be satisfied immediately but find yourself wanting a little more shortly after.

 

[Seadeals]

Thank for the suggestion. I read that many times and understand the difference with surface area and air movement. There are some REALLY deep threads on the forum that helped me learn more that I every expected I would have the attention to digest. I have been very satisfied with no sub for years and decided I just needed another good winter project without spending $300 on a sub alone. I got the JL M8 for way less... a price I could justify for something I don’t “need”. I am also planning to put it on the front face of the aft starboard storage so at least it will be right under my a$$!