The Vaccine

[tabbibus]

Who beat the grass? The trolls are out in full force this morning!? Please do not feed them.

 

[the MfM]

Time to lock the thread!!!

 

[adrianp89]

Who beat the grass? The trolls are out in full force this morning!? Please do not feed them.

They aren't wrong though....an opinion different from yours does not make someone a troll.

 

[the MfM]

Who beat the grass? The trolls are out in full force this morning!? Please do not feed them.

Personal attack. Two points.

 

[adrianp89]

Personal attack. Two points.

If you are pro-vaccine, you are untouchable.

 

[Jim_in_Delaware]

In addition to Monoclonal Antibodies he also took some Z-pak and Ivermectin (the human kind you get prescribed). The same that won a Nobel prize for treating other diseases. To this day many of the media dolts still have misinformation plastered on their website, videos etc saying OMG Joe Rogan took an unproven concoction of horse dewormer lol. Like these idiots at NPR lol....

Joe Rogan Says He Has COVID-19 And Has Taken The Drug Ivermectin

Following his diagnosis, the 54-year-old host of The Joe Rogan Experience podcast said he "immediately threw the kitchen sink at it." That included a cocktail of unproven treatments.

www.npr.org

Here is what is in the your linked article,

"Rogan says he took a drug the FDA urges people not to use

His methods included taking ivermectin, a deworming veterinary drug that is formulated for use in cows and horses. While a version of the drug is sometimes prescribed to people for head lice or skin conditions, the formula for animal use is much more concentrated. The Food and Drug administration is urging people to stop ingesting the animal version of the drug to fight COVID-19, warning it can cause nausea, vomiting, abdominal pain, neurologic disorders and potentially severe hepatitis requiring hospitalization."

So, your linked article says more than he told an unproven concoction of a horse dewormer.

As I posted earlier in this thread, even Merck (the manufacturer of Ivermcectin) tells folks not to use this drug for Covid.

For humans, ivermectin tablets are approved at very specific doses to treat some parasitic worms, and there are topical (on the skin) formulations for head lice and skin conditions like rosacea. It continues to astound me that folks think just because of a drug may treat some parasitic worms, that it would be an effective anti-viral for a specific type of virus. To me, this shows they do not understand the human body.

Here are the two major problems I see with people blindly following the Ivermectin bandwagon.
- First, it has not be shown to work for Covid. If a patient is taking monoclonal antibodies, then it may not matter as they may get better due to the monoclonal antibodies. However, if the patient only takes Ivermectin, the drug likely will not help battle Covid, and their could die.
Second, a run on Ivermectin for Covid use, can cause a shortage of the drug, that could have devastating to the the human (or animal) that needs the drug for it's indicated use.

Jim

 

[tabbibus]

?‍
happy friday, lads.

 

[Julian]

In addition to Monoclonal Antibodies he also took some Z-pak and Ivermectin (the human kind you get prescribed). The same that won a Nobel prize for treating other diseases. To this day many of the media dolts still have misinformation plastered on their website, videos etc saying OMG Joe Rogan took an unproven concoction of horse dewormer lol. Like these idiots at NPR lol....

Joe Rogan Says He Has COVID-19 And Has Taken The Drug Ivermectin

Following his diagnosis, the 54-year-old host of The Joe Rogan Experience podcast said he "immediately threw the kitchen sink at it." That included a cocktail of unproven treatments.

www.npr.org

I don’t watch JR pod casts. I do catch some of his clips from time to time if it pops up on my YT. Dude is certainly out there but I like that he isn’t afraid to speak his mind and hold people accountable for lying.

The article you posted doesn't say a single thing about him taking horse dewormer. That said, morons are still taking the animal version of the drug and getting sick - which is what the article DOES warn about:

. The Food and Drug administration is urging people to stop ingesting the animal version of the drug to fight COVID-19, warning it can cause nausea, vomiting, abdominal pain, neurologic disorders and potentially severe hepatitis requiring hospitalization.​

As others have said, far too many people listen to these comedians, and trust their opinions over the prevailing medical science (even some here apparently). Then, unfortunately, they take this tiny nugget of information and use it wrong (take their horse's drug without talking to their doc). Its dangerous.

I wouldn't touch the stuff until a large scale study done in a first world country proves its does anything for Covid. And this has yet to happen - and lots have tried!

Until then, I'll stick with the vaccines that were developed over 20 years and have been proven over a large scale -- 500 million people? Unfortunately at the same time, the remaining unvaccinated will either get their immunity via a Covid infection (and run the gauntlet of death, long haulers etc) or self isolate. And unfortunately, while sick, they will become the vector for spreading it to others. While the vaccinated population will, for the most part not get infected, and the ones that have break through infections most won't be hospitalized, and will be sick for a far shorter period, thus spreading the virus less. Not hard to understand - unless you don't want to - perhaps because you listen to too many comics practicing medicine without a license.

 

[Beachbummer]

... It continues to astound me that folks think just because of a drug may treat some parasitic worms, that it would be an effective anti-viral for a specific type of virus. To me, this shows they do not understand the human body...

To be fair, it does not surprise me someone would try to make that connection..Bleach kills viruses, maybe a few sips will kill it no? This pill kills ugly undesired crap, maybe it kills COVID? It shows these are "logical" connections, Exactly as you state from those that DON'T know how the body works (ME included)

What does impact me greatly is that even AFTER the idea is consulted with experts and explained clearly as to WHY it's a terrible idea and it DOES NOT work, some in the masses continue to pursue it to their own detriment. I think ASKING is legitimate, but once it's understood and answered, the pursuit into the wormhole ought to stop.

When my daughter was 5 she wanted to build some wings and test them by jumping off our roof. I told her It was a cool idea but it would NOT work as it had been tested before, and I was happy to go help her look at prior attempts and look into the experience of others on why, but that she would certainly NOT be jumping of the roof. She became quite mad, telling me parents were supposed to be supportive. It was an easy answer for me..NOPE. I happen to know more than you and I'm happy to explain the logic of my decision, but I also have control over you since you are 5, so no jumping. She is older now and does not remember, and finds it extremely funny.

How do we deal with it as a society when someone way older than 5 wish to jump of the roof with their bad choices, defying logic and gravity? We don't seem to be doing great. I admit if the consequences did not affect me I would not care a great deal, but it turns out if you get COVID and die you probably occupied space in the hospital that could prevent me or my family from being treated for things we do not control. A family death can have great impact to many around you. Knowing we have a working parachute, why would you not use it?

For those unconvinced Perhaps more time and continued increased deaths of those not vaccinated will convince you, Or you will eventually get sick and hopefully survive and build some immunity, Or perhaps you won't survive, either way hospitalizations and deaths will hopefully go down, maybe before another wave? maybe after several? Time will tell.

 

[Skierdad]

I have not yet seen all 3 hours of the podcast, but will say this.

A guy who is non-college educated spent 3 hours talking medicine with a guy who has a Ph.D in it. And he held his own? Shouldn't this have been a blowout? Maybe it was and I will see that when I watch/listen to the podcast.

 

[tabbibus]

To be fair, it does not surprise me someone would try to make that connection..Bleach kills viruses, maybe a few sips will kill it no? This pill kills ugly undesired crap, maybe it kills COVID? It shows these are "logical" connections, Exactly as you state from those that DON'T know how the body works (ME included)

What does impact me greatly is that even AFTER the idea is consulted with experts and explained clearly as to WHY it's a terrible idea and it DOES NOT work, some in the masses continue to pursue it to their own detriment. I think ASKING is legitimate, but once it's understood and answered, the pursuit into the wormhole ought to stop.

When my daughter was 5 she wanted to build some wings and test them by jumping off our roof. I told her It was a cool idea but it would NOT work as it had been tested before, and I was happy to go help her look at prior attempts and look into the experience of others on why, but that she would certainly NOT be jumping of the roof. She became quite mad, telling me parents were supposed to be supportive. It was an easy answer for me..NOPE. I happen to know more than you and I'm happy to explain the logic of my decision, but I also have control over you since you are 5, so no jumping. She is older now and does not remember, and finds it extremely funny.

How do we deal with it as a society when someone way older than 5 wish to jump of the roof with their bad choices, defying logic and gravity? We don't seem to be doing great. I admit if the consequences did not affect me I would not care a great deal, but it turns out if you get COVID and die you probably occupied space in the hospital that could prevent me or my family from being treated for things we do not control. A family death can have great impact to many around you. Knowing we have a working parachute, why would you not use it?

For those unconvinced Perhaps more time and continued increased deaths of those not vaccinated will convince you, Or you will eventually get sick and hopefully survive and build some immunity, Or perhaps you won't survive, either way hospitalizations and deaths will hopefully go down, maybe before another wave? maybe after several? Time will tell.

love the anecdote with your daughter.

 

[Julian]

How do we deal with it as a society when someone way older than 5 wish to jump of the roof with their bad choices

I can already hear this discussion:
A "There are plenty of wing suits that work just fine!!!! Stop trashing wing suits! I'm free to test my wings if I want!!!"
B "Dude---those wing suits are basically sky diving suits modified so let you steer a little...not fly"
A "BULLSHIT-- YOU CAN'T tell me they don't work! FAKE NEWS"

What is interesting is that correlation does not mean something works. But it MIGHT. This is how Hydroxychloroquine became popular - doctors in India noticed that patients that took it weren't dying Covid (true), but what they didn't realize is that only patients with no heart or respiratory issues were give it. So they weren't predisposed to die from Covid. So although the correlation was valid, it wasn't why there was a lower death rate in that group. This sort of "Obvious" data is what is so hard for some to understand, and why full double blind controlled studies are used to prove if an approach works. This is similar to the "math" challenge people have with the UK data - on the surface it looks compelling. Once the math is done you realize how stupid that compelling view is!!

Regarding Rogan - you can edit anything to make it sound good one way or another. A really good (ignorant) speaker can run circles around an expert introvert - I've seen it far too often at work.

 

[MidnightRider]

For humans, ivermectin tablets are approved at very specific doses to treat some parasitic worms, and there are topical (on the skin) formulations for head lice and skin conditions like rosacea. It continues to astound me that folks think just because of a drug may treat some parasitic worms, that it would be an effective anti-viral for a specific type of virus. To me, this shows they do not understand the human body.

I don't why you are "astounded". Its true Ivermectin has not been "proven" to be affective against Covid. However, there are still ongoing studies looking at it. Why? Because it has shown to have anti-viral activity on virus replication in the past. Ivermectin has a history of studied use as anti-viral treatment for RNA viruses (Zika, Yellow Fever, Dengue, West Nile). So not proven as a Covid treatment but it is a big leap to say its astounding for people to consider it. There is reason they are studying it as a possible treatment.

Edit: This is what happens, people chose to look a certain direction that doesn't fit the narative, maybe it is legitimate, maybe not - but its smart people making decisions for their own health who then the main stream turns them into horse dewormer consuming idiots and that becomes part of the propagated narrative. (btw - this edit was not directed at your post Jim but a general statement)

 

[Lurch]

What does impact me greatly is that even AFTER the idea is consulted with experts and explained clearly as to WHY it's a terrible idea and it DOES NOT work, some in the masses continue to pursue it to their own detriment. I think ASKING is legitimate, but once it's understood and answered, the pursuit into the wormhole ought to stop.

I'm mainly in agreement, however, my Dr. disagrees with the belief that it's a terrible idea and does not work. He's unsure if it does work, but due to the possibility that it might, and the fact that Ivermectin is an incredibly safe drug, prescribed it for my family members who caught Covid. To the best of my knowledge, he is not nor has ever been a comedian, but I can't verify that.

 

[Beachbummer]

If you haven't seen this I HOPE we can all agree...this is pretty cool...

 

[Lurch]

Regarding Rogan - you can edit anything to make it sound good one way or another. A really good (ignorant) speaker can run circles around an expert introvert - I've seen it far too often at work.

I'm not sure I'd classify Dr. Gupta as an introvert incapable of holding his own in a 3 hour podcast, given his high profile job. I did watch the podcast, they both made good points (the Dr. more than Rogan)

 

[tabbibus]

3 hours? yeesh!

 

[Lurch]

3 hours? yeesh!

I agree, but it was a more entertaining 3 hours than watching that new Bond turd.

 

[tabbibus]

I agree, but it was a more entertaining 3 hours than watching that new Bond turd.

oh that sucks. I had high hopes

 

[Jim_in_Delaware]

@MidnightRider, point taken. I should have been a bit clearer, and I wrote my post in haste. I'm astounded that at this point in time, people would consider Invermectin as a course of treatment for Covid. After all, we currently have several vaccines (one with full approval) and proven treatments for Covid infections. Why folks, continue to promote Ivermectin, when there have been no long scale clinical trials showing its effectiveness in treating Covid is what astounds me.

Early on, in the pandemic, when there were no vaccines or proven treatments for Covid, I can understand the push for Ivermectin, as there was nothing else available and the possibility it might be helpful.

Jim