The Vaccine

[Lurch]

Fair point, I'll use the work Complain from now on....unless whining is really involved. But some of the logic is infantile....ok....not infantile - but 3rd grade math level.

LOL - It's enlightening how you view your inferiors.

 

[Jim_in_Delaware]

Wow. Delusion comes to mind with this entire post. It is nothing but regurgitatrion of the FDA talking points. Did your bosses give you a script for this nonsense? The horse dewormer narrative is so overdone. I suggest you get on the phone and tell all the people running these trials all over the world that they are using a HORSE WORMER. Also be sure to tell them that it is unethical to prescribe it. They should stop right after hearing from you.

I'm done with this Ivermectin 'discussion'.

Why do you insist in putting words in my mouth? I never described Ivermectin as "HORSE WORMER". There are your words not mine. Again, Ivermectin is a wonderful drug for both man and animal, for the labeled diseases. In my link that you have quoted, it also doesn't describe Ivermectin as a "HORSE WORMER". On the contrary, the link notes, "There seems to be a growing interest in a drug called ivermectin for the prevention or treatment of COVID-19 in humans. Certain animal formulations of ivermectin such as pour-on, injectable, paste, and "drench," are approved in the U.S. to treat or prevent parasites in animals. For humans, ivermectin tablets are approved at very specific doses to treat some parasitic worms, and there are topical (on the skin) formulations for head lice and skin conditions like rosacea."

Hopefully, neither of us will get Covid. If I do, however, I ain't taking either Ivermectin or Hydroxychloroquine, I'm taking one of the proven treatments for Covid (maybe Merck's molnupiravir will also be approved by then). You can take Ivermectin if you wish, although I sincerely hope you opt for one of the treatments.

Jim

 

[Jim_in_Delaware]

If the goal here is to dispel misinformation why do you keep calling Ivermectin a Horse De wormer when its been approved for human use for 40 plus years.
Ivermectin is a broad spectrum anti-parasitic, with approved uses in animals and humans. The drug was developed in the late 1970s. In humans, ivermectin is indicated for, among other conditions, two neglected tropical diseases, river blindness (onchocerciasis) and lymphatic filariasis.

Evil, whose post are you responding too? Maybe I missed something, but I have gone back the three pages posted today and the only references I see to horse dewormer is in Rogan's complaint about CNN and Rogan's supporters using that phrase.

Jim

 

[Julian]

Study after study has shown it does nothing for mortality and at best might shorten hospital stays by 1 day. What it does do is make Gilead Sciences 3000 dolars per dose. In spite of this it is still on most hospitals covid regimen WHY you might ask. $$$$$$$$$$$.

But when you say "follow the money" on this one....that violates the "plan" (although I'm baffled what the "plan" is).
The study quote earlier had a "Positive" results group, and a "Negative" results group. I'm sure no one read it and noticed that not A SINGLE STUDY in the "Positive" group was a randomized controlled study (blind or not) - NOT ONE. However, a number of them in the "Negative" group not only were, but had over 1000 participants. It was also not peer reviewed - which would have called that crap out (and has done since).

LOL - It's enlightening how you view your inferiors.

It has nothing to do with inferiors. When you want to have an intelligent discussion about statistics being published, you can't do that if you don't understand the basics of math. I wouldn't dream of discussing physics - I never took it, and would be out of my depth. I would be "inferior". Which is why I read this thread. I have a pretty decent understand of healthcare (having worked in the field for 25 years), but I defer to the PHD's here when it comes to the details - as I'm over my head then. Yet we have lots of people on here arguing with PHDs about the science (and not PHDs in unrelated fields-people who are treating dying patients with Covid!)

I'm all for a spirited discussion on anything. But I know my limits. Math I'm pretty strong in. Hospital operations - Strong. Practicing Medicine - Nope.

If you honestly post the recent UK data and don't understand why its sad how basic a flaw in mathematics their premise is based on, then you are out of your depth (and I don't recall who posted it). You really don't have to know much more than algebra to see the flaw.

 

[crazy4life]

But when you say "follow the money" on this one....that violates the "plan" (although I'm baffled what the "plan" is).
The study quote earlier had a "Positive" results group, and a "Negative" results group. I'm sure no one read it and noticed that not A SINGLE STUDY in the "Positive" group was a randomized controlled study (blind or not) - NOT ONE. However, a number of them in the "Negative" group not only were, but had over 1000 participants. It was also not peer reviewed - which would have called that crap out (and has done since).

It has nothing to do with inferiors. When you want to have an intelligent discussion about statistics being published, you can't do that if you don't understand the basics of math. I wouldn't dream of discussing physics - I never took it, and would be out of my depth. I would be "inferior". Which is why I read this thread. I have a pretty decent understand of healthcare (having worked in the field for 25 years), but I defer to the PHD's here when it comes to the details - as I'm over my head then. Yet we have lots of people on here arguing with PHDs about the science (and not PHDs in unrelated fields-people who are treating dying patients with Covid!)

I'm all for a spirited discussion on anything. But I know my limits. Math I'm pretty strong in. Hospital operations - Strong. Practicing Medicine - Nope.

If you honestly post the recent UK data and don't understand why its sad how basic a flaw in mathematics their premise is based on, then you are out of your depth (and I don't recall who posted it). You really don't have to know much more than algebra to see the flaw.

Could you please post all the peer reviewed studies that show remdesiver decreases mortality. Gotta be dozens by now.
It’s ok to be baffled so don’t feel bad about that. I am also baffled how you quoted me on something I never said. Could you please show me where I said follow the money in the post you quoted. Also the part where I said that was the plan that left you baffled. Maybe I can explain it in laymen’s terms for you.

 

[Jim_in_Delaware]

Ironically, on the way to the pharmacy, all this talk about animal dewormers, got me thinking about animal drugs.

This may be news to a lot of folks, but animal drugs (at least in the U.S.) are not second-rate pharmaceuticals. The quality of animal drugs is the same as human drugs.

Animal drugs have both innovator and generic applications (difference being animal drugs are approved by FDA’s Center for Veterinary Medicine and human drugs are approved by FDA’s Center for Drug Evaluation and Research). Both human and animal drugs are manufactured to the exact same standards, 21 CFR 211 – Current Good Manufacturing Practices for Finished Pharmaceuticals. Quite often, the exact same drug product (with the exact same active and inactive ingredients) is used to treat animals and humans, only differing in dosage strength due to weight or metabolism differences. Since the manufacturing process is the same, both human and animal drug products can be manufactured in the same pharmaceutical plant.

Funny story that happened to me a few years ago. My wife was taking an antibiotic and asked me to get it for her. So, being a good husband, I went downstairs and got her medication for her. A short time, later, it was time for the dogs medication. As it was the same size, color, and shape as the medication I had also just given my wife, I had to pause to make sure that I gave my wife her medication and not the dogs! It turns out that both my wife and the dog had been prescribed the exact same antibiotic, including the same dosage strength. The only difference better the two generic medications was that they were made at different manufacturing facilities by different companies!

Jim

 

[haknslash]

The article you posted doesn't say a single thing about him taking horse dewormer.

Sure it does. Directly from the link...

“His methods included taking ivermectin, a deworming veterinary drug that is formulated for use in cows and horses.”

 

[crazy4life]

Sure it does. Directly from the link...

“His methods included taking ivermectin, a deworming veterinary drug that is formulated for use in cows and horses.”

GTFO with the truth. We don’t need any of that up in here.

 

[haknslash]

Here is what is in the your linked article,

"Rogan says he took a drug the FDA urges people not to use

His methods included taking ivermectin, a deworming veterinary drug that is formulated for use in cows and horses. While a version of the drug is sometimes prescribed to people for head lice or skin conditions, the formula for animal use is much more concentrated. The Food and Drug administration is urging people to stop ingesting the animal version of the drug to fight COVID-19, warning it can cause nausea, vomiting, abdominal pain, neurologic disorders and potentially severe hepatitis requiring hospitalization."

So, your linked article says more than he told an unproven concoction of a horse dewormer.

As I posted earlier in this thread, even Merck (the manufacturer of Ivermcectin) tells folks not to use this drug for Covid.

For humans, ivermectin tablets are approved at very specific doses to treat some parasitic worms, and there are topical (on the skin) formulations for head lice and skin conditions like rosacea. It continues to astound me that folks think just because of a drug may treat some parasitic worms, that it would be an effective anti-viral for a specific type of virus. To me, this shows they do not understand the human body.

Here are the two major problems I see with people blindly following the Ivermectin bandwagon.
- First, it has not be shown to work for Covid. If a patient is taking monoclonal antibodies, then it may not matter as they may get better due to the monoclonal antibodies. However, if the patient only takes Ivermectin, the drug likely will not help battle Covid, and their could die.
Second, a run on Ivermectin for Covid use, can cause a shortage of the drug, that could have devastating to the the human (or animal) that needs the drug for it's indicated use.

Jim

Im not going to read all of your novel. I also don’t care about Ivermectin. I was simply pointing out the lies of the media saying Joe Rogan took the deworming version of the medicine, nothing more.

 

[the MfM]

Ironically, on the way to the pharmacy, all this talk about animal dewormers, got me thinking about animal drugs.

This may be news to a lot of folks, but animal drugs (at least in the U.S.) are not second-rate pharmaceuticals. The quality of animal drugs is the same as human drugs.

Animal drugs have both innovator and generic applications (difference being animal drugs are approved by FDA’s Center for Veterinary Medicine and human drugs are approved by FDA’s Center for Drug Evaluation and Research). Both human and animal drugs are manufactured to the exact same standards, 21 CFR 211 – Current Good Manufacturing Practices for Finished Pharmaceuticals. Quite often, the exact same drug product (with the exact same active and inactive ingredients) is used to treat animals and humans, only differing in dosage strength due to weight or metabolism differences. Since the manufacturing process is the same, both human and animal drug products can be manufactured in the same pharmaceutical plant.

Funny story that happened to me a few years ago. My wife was taking an antibiotic and asked me to get it for her. So, being a good husband, I went downstairs and got her medication for her. A short time, later, it was time for the dogs medication. As it was the same size, color, and shape as the medication I had also just given my wife, I had to pause to make sure that I gave my wife her medication and not the dogs! It turns out that both my wife and the dog had been prescribed the exact same antibiotic, including the same dosage strength. The only difference better the two generic medications was that they were made at different manufacturing facilities by different companies!

Jim

I have my vet write a script for the dog and then bring it to the local pharmacy to be filled… the vet wants two bucks a pill for doxy. The pharmacy fills the bottle for under ten dollars.

 

[Jim_in_Delaware]

I have my vet write a script for the dog and then bring it to the local pharmacy to be filled… the vet wants two bucks a pill for doxy. The pharmacy fills the bottle for under ten dollars.

This is actually a pretty common practice, depending of the vet. We had a great vet with our last dog. He always gave us the price and choice of having the script filled at his office, or giving us a script to have it filled at our local pharmacy. Like in your example, we almost always had it filled at the pharmacy we used.

Jim

 

[crazy4life]

I'm done with this Ivermectin 'discussion'.

Why do you insist in putting words in my mouth? I never described Ivermectin as "HORSE WORMER". There are your words not mine. Again, Ivermectin is a wonderful drug for both man and animal, for the labeled diseases. In my link that you have quoted, it also doesn't describe Ivermectin as a "HORSE WORMER". On the contrary, the link notes, "There seems to be a growing interest in a drug called ivermectin for the prevention or treatment of COVID-19 in humans. Certain animal formulations of ivermectin such as pour-on, injectable, paste, and "drench," are approved in the U.S. to treat or prevent parasites in animals. For humans, ivermectin tablets are approved at very specific doses to treat some parasitic worms, and there are topical (on the skin) formulations for head lice and skin conditions like rosacea."

Hopefully, neither of us will get Covid. If I do, however, I ain't taking either Ivermectin or Hydroxychloroquine, I'm taking one of the proven treatments for Covid (maybe Merck's molnupiravir will also be approved by then). You can take Ivermectin if you wish, although I sincerely hope you opt for one of the treatments.

Jim

Please show me where I said that you stated that Ivermectin is a horse wormer. In the link that you posted this comes right up front and center.


Hmmm why show a horse when talking about ivermectin prescribed for humans. Part of the FDA smear campaign against Ivermectin?
Does the photo above from the link that you provided look familiar?

From the FDA twitter page


"A physical prescribing Ivermectin for Covid-19, especially at this time, is unethical." After making this statement I just thought that you would want to inform the scientists from around the world running over 100 clinical trials on ivermectin that what they are doing is unethical.

Carry on

 

[Jim_in_Delaware]

Please show me where I said that you stated that Ivermectin is a horse wormer. In the link that you posted this comes right up front and center.

View attachment 165372
Hmmm why show a horse when talking about ivermectin prescribed for humans. Part of the FDA smear campaign against Ivermectin?
Does the photo above from the link that you provided look familiar?

From the FDA twitter page
View attachment 165373

"A physical prescribing Ivermectin for Covid-19, especially at this time, is unethical." After making this statement I just thought that you would want to inform the scientists from around the world running over 100 clinical trials on ivermectin that what they are doing is unethical.

Carry on

Lordy, I tried!

I honestly do not know why this is so hard to understand. FDA has approved Ivermectin for animal use. FDA has also approved Ivermectin for human use. Humans should not take the Ivermectin that has been approved for animal use.

Some people believe the hype about Ivermectin for Covid and buy it wherever they can. This includes from farm stores where they are buying animal dosages of Ivermectin for their own personal use. And yes, believe it or not, some people do eat Ivermectin paste that is sold as a topical for animals. It has actually become difficult in many parts of the country for folks raising animals to get Ivermectin for their animals.

There is no smear FDA smear campaign against Ivermectin. There are human versions of Ivermectin that have been approved. Quite frankly, suggesting that there is an agency smear campaign is one of the craziest things I have read on this forum. What there is an educational campaign by the FDA telling people not to use animal Ivermectin for human use.

By the way I don't follow anyone of Twitter, including the FDA.

Jim

 

[Crob83]

Congrats Joe, I barely remembered who you were before all this. Now, everyone is talking about you. The reality is about 98% of people like him would get better without doing anything. But he also took antibodies which do work. So his recovery was almost assured and says little about the effectiveness of any other treatment. Nothing to see here.

Congrats to Joe Rogan? You mean the UFC announcer and #1 podcast in the world who nearly everyone knows who he is.

 

[Julian]

Congrats to Joe Rogan? You mean the UFC announcer and #1 podcast in the world who nearly everyone knows who he is.

There really aren't world wide stats....he's popular in the US for sure, but his podcasts are only in English, so he can't really be a top world wide Podcaster until he gets translated into other big languages like Chinese Spanish Hindi etc.

 

[Bruce]

Immune response to other coronaviruses is a positive finding. Hopefully we will see a single vaccine to combat most coronaviruses in the coming years. A similar vaccine for multiple influenza strains might be possible as well.

Covid Vaccines Could Protect Against Other Coronaviruses, Study Finds

The study boosts hopes that a single vaccine could eventually protect against multiple viruses and stave off another pandemic.

www.forbes.com

 

[ripler]

LOL at people saying Rogan did this to gain popularity. He has a 100 million dollar deal with Spotify, he's a well known UFC commentator, and is a successful stand up comic. He's right to be pissed about CNN's reporting on his Covid treatment. Everything that he took to treat Covid was prescribed by his doctor, right or wrong. He was going to get vaccinated, but couldn't because of a scheduling conflict. He started to question the vaccine after a friend of his had a bad reaction to the vaccine.

 

[tabbibus]

Immune response to other coronaviruses is a positive finding. Hopefully we will see a single vaccine to combat most coronaviruses in the coming years. A similar vaccine for multiple influenza strains might be possible as well.

Covid Vaccines Could Protect Against Other Coronaviruses, Study Finds

The study boosts hopes that a single vaccine could eventually protect against multiple viruses and stave off another pandemic.

www.forbes.com

We're going to start seeing a lot of breakthroughs in this field. It would be great if we can get more immunity to those pesky colds that can put you out of work for a day or two.

Also promising are the flu/covid mRNA combo shots.

 

[haknslash]

Sure it does. Directly from the link...

“His methods included taking ivermectin, a deworming veterinary drug that is formulated for use in cows and horses.”

The silence is deafening.

Anyways, NPR is not the only MSM that constantly lies and twists the facts to drive their misinformation campaigns. Allow me to post screen shots of just a handful of MSM propaganda outlets still to this day lying to the public and feeding the narrative that he took veterinarian version for deworming. Again, it’s not about the medicine but the message being portrayed....errr..flat out lies.

 

[crazy4life]

The silence is deafening.

Anyways, NPR is not the only MSM that constantly lies and twists the facts to drive their misinformation campaigns. Allow me to post screen shots of just a handful of MSM propaganda outlets still to this day lying to the public and feeding the narrative that he took veterinarian version for deworming. Again, it’s not about the medicine but the message being portrayed....errr..flat out lies.

View attachment 165406View attachment 165407View attachment 165408View attachment 165409View attachment 165410View attachment 165411View attachment 165412View attachment 165413View attachment 165414View attachment 165415View attachment 165416View attachment 165417

75 cents of every advertising dollar is spent by the pharmaceutical industry. The amounts to roughly 6.4 billion dollars a year. Every year.If you do not think that they can control the narrative through the advertising dollar you are delusional. When you have the power to go to ABC and say we will not spend our $450 million next year on your net work unless you do as we ask you’re crazy. Why do you think you cost 10 bucks on one little blue pill to get your dick hard? Do yourself a favor and see how much money the pharmaceutical industry contribute to politicians on the left and the right you will be shocked. This is probably the reason that there is a law that says Medicare cannot negotiate on drug prices——insanity. I seriously get a kick out of people they think the pharmaceutical industry is altruistic in any shape or form, but then again they probably believe in rainbows and unicorns