The Vaccine

[swatski]

Boarderline obsession much? It’s a German word, Google is your friend.

Googled it.
It is an African male name.

 

[Evil Sports]

There is a difference between testing positive and, having been vaccinated, more likely to experience mild symptoms - and dying, no?

But you NEVER hear anything about people with breakthrough positive tests and what they experienced. All you hear is the symptoms were mild but I cant remember anyone coming out and saying anything to support it. What about the Yankee players or other pro athletes, sad to say but people listen to them. They should have taken a marketing approach to this and that means high profile spokes people. Again sad to say but thats the world we live in today where Instagram influencers have more credibility than scientists.
Remember Im not taking a stand here, just sharing some of the things I see or dont see.

 

[jlcj7]

I think the real “morons” are the ones who keep trying to change each other’s mind at this point. Funny how grown adults resort to name calling when people disagree with them. Seems like some of us who left the “other” site due to arguing and attacking are starting to get that here. I guess it all comes full circle.
I don’t even have my jet boat anymore. (Jet ski and pontoon now) but have stuck around because this forum has been great. This thread is giving me doubts…

Back to topic:

I was skeptical of the vaccine (just because I am no expert and it all came fast) but eventually decided to get it since I travel internationally for work a lot. First shot, no issue, second shot just a little tired for a day. It was nothing.

 

[Robconn]

But you NEVER hear anything about people with breakthrough positive tests and what they experienced. All you hear is the symptoms were mild but I cant remember anyone coming out and saying anything to support it. What about the Yankee players or other pro athletes, sad to say but people listen to them. They should have taken a marketing approach to this and that means high profile spokes people. Again sad to say but thats the world we live in today. where Instagram influencers have more credibility than scientists.
Remember Im not taking a stand here, just sharing some of the things I see or dont see.

I can report from my locality regarding breakthrough symptoms. Of all hospital admissions last week, only 2 were breakthrough. And of those two, one was completely asymptotic, no fever, no cough etc. every admission gets tested. So my takeaway is ultimately less severity.
I can also state staff members are out with covid most are breakthrough but not hospitalized. The one co- worker non vaccinated, religious reasons, is hospitalized elsewhere. I have access to daily isolation reports.

 

[Evil Sports]

Why are people getting admitted for breakthrough? especially asymptomatic?
And you will never see me call people names or belittle them for their opinion on a message board.

 

[Robconn]

I think the real “morons” are the ones who keep trying to change each other’s mind at this point. Funny how grown adults resort to name calling when people disagree with them. Seems like some of us who left the “other” site due to arguing and attacking are starting to get that here. I guess it all comes full circle.
I don’t even have my jet boat anymore. (Jet ski and pontoon now) but have stuck around because this forum has been great. This thread is giving me doubts…

Back to topic:

I was skeptical of the vaccine (just because I am no expert and it all came fast) but eventually decided to get it since I travel internationally for work a lot. First shot, no issue, second shot just a little tired for a day. It was nothing.

I sold my jet ski, kept the boat. I agree as well as to how awesome this platform has been and continues to be. Personally I don’t want to come across as an alarmists. I focus on what is occurring locally compared to the media.

 

[Robconn]

Why are people getting admitted for breakthrough? especially asymptomatic?
And you will never see me call people names or belittle them for their opinion on a message board.

My understanding of the efficacy of this vaccine or any for that matter is they do not 100% prevent one from getting covid, flu or other malady. They primarily work to reduce severity of symptoms. Thus, decreasing missed work days, hospital admissions and reduce transmission rates. The greater the number of vaccinated the greater the effect on the general population.
Not everyone should get a vaccine. Those that are imunocompromised or have had long term symptoms from previous vaccines are not advised.

 

[Robconn]

Why are people getting admitted for breakthrough? especially asymptomatic?
And you will never see me call people names or belittle them for their opinion on a message board.

Good question. That person had an injury that required immediate medical attention. It was just by chance due to that circumstance the patient found out. Otherwise, the patient would be at home or wherever unknowingly with covid, or until any symptoms potentially arise. That’s also why it’s recommended that vaccinated people wear masks in public because the vaccine also does not prevent a vaccinated person to spread it once re- infected and may not know it.

 

[Julian]

Yikes man. You believe that stuff? Everything isn't a conspiracy. Somethings things just.....happen.

No one dies from Covid. Even this concept isn't well understood by many. The same way that no one dies from Alzheimer's - it doesn't kill you, it causes and exacerbates other things that kill you. In my Mom's case she died of starvation, because she forgot how to swallow. She died WITH Alzheimers, the same way people die WITH Covid. The cause of death from Covid is sepsis, cardiac arrest, etc (I'm sure @tabbibus could give us the primary list) WITH Covid, COPD, hypertension, diabetes etc. But that said, COVID is the trigger that put them over the edge. There is NO OTHER KNOWN CAUSE to have triggered the tsunami of deaths in the last year besides Covid. It didn't take long to isolate it either because SARS is a well know virus we've been dealing with for decades.

So we know:

1. Covid is the trigger of 626,179 deaths in the US alone. It caused heart attack etc in someone who otherwise wouldn't have died. We are also pretty certain that this number is a 24% UNDERCOUNT based on excess death data.
2. We know we have a vaccine for it that massively reduces hospitalizations and severe complications. The approach for this vaccine began in 1999, and was in full swing in 2012 with the Sars Outbreak. This is why we were able to create the vaccine in literally 24 hours and then begin testing.
3. The last time a vaccine saved the country was in 1955 - fortunately then we didn't have social media then! This disease (Polio) only killed 5000/year - less than 1/100 as deadly as Covid - yet we developed a vaccine and have effectively eliminated the threat - Awesome!
4. We have Vaccine Resistors that believe in "Social Proof" or are swept up by a "Hype Machine" rather than credible messengers.

Nothing I can say will tackle #4 above. I can point to the credible research all I want, but if the hype machine keeps pushing I'm simply wasting my time. What I can suggest, and perhaps some will realize they have succumbed to a disinformation campaign, is READ. READ vociferously. Read the all sides. Study the data. Use your brain. Don't let an article tell you what to think - understand the data and why it makes sense. Search for an article with an opposing position. Read and try to understand that position. Use the data to come to a rational conclusion. Follow some of this links I embedded. Don't listen to me, don't read the MEMEs, study the data.

Why are people getting admitted for breakthrough? especially asymptomatic?
And you will never see me call people names or belittle them for their opinion on a message board.

There are a very small percentage of vaccinated people with break through symptoms that have gotten severe enough to warrant hospitalization and even some deaths. But based on raw data what we are seeing is:

• Unvaccinated people represent 98.9-99.2% of new hospitalizations/deaths due to Covid and are 31.7% of the population
• Vaccinated people therefor (or unknown vax status) represent .8-1.1% of new hospitalizations or deaths and are 68.3% of the population.

Based on those numbers, it is clear that being vaccinated massively improves your chances of not being hospitalized or dying from Covid (no it doesn't eliminate that chance).

My guess is that if an Admin wasn’t a primary contributor to this dumpster fire it would have been closed a long time ago.

We actually refrain from closing threads whenever possible. That is our policy. We do have policies. We do follow them, and we have closed threads where they got too personal. So far, this thread hasn't. This thread has been pretty civilized with regards to name calling. Thank you all for that.

 

[swatski]

But you NEVER hear anything about people with breakthrough positive tests and what they experienced. All you hear is the symptoms were mild but I cant remember anyone coming out and saying anything to support it. What about the Yankee players or other pro athletes, sad to say but people listen to them. They should have taken a marketing approach to this and that means high profile spokes people. Again sad to say but thats the world we live in today where Instagram influencers have more credibility than scientists.
Remember Im not taking a stand here, just sharing some of the things I see or dont see.

The vaccine is just that, a vaccine. It is not a cure and it is impossible to predict the exact response in an individual due to enormous variation in congenital / innate immune system constitution, HLA (Major Histocompatibility Complex) haplotype, and acquired antibody and T-cell receptor repertoire - the latter two being somatically rearranged, not germline encoded, and generating enormous Ig/TCR repertoire diversity.


But, I will say this:
when a Republican governor of Alabama tells you 'It's the unvaccinated folks that are letting us down', you pretty much know it's time to get the jab, if you can, or shut the fuck up.

--

 

[WiskyDan]

We actually refrain from closing threads whenever possible. That is our policy. We do have policies. We do follow them, and we have closed threads where they got too personal. So far, this thread hasn't. This thread has been pretty civilized with regards to name calling. Thank you all for that.

Wait, what??

I've seen more vitriol amongst members in this thread than all of the others combined since I started frequenting this wonderful site.

Then again I'm just adding fuel to this by replying so I'm just gonna stop and hope that cooler heads prevail..........I'm not gonna hold my breath.

 

[Julian]

Wait, what??

I've seen more vitriol amongst members in this thread than all of the others combined since I started frequenting this wonderful site.

Then again I'm just adding fuel to this by replying so I'm just gonna stop and hope that cooler heads prevail..........I'm not gonna hold my breath.

Guess you must have missed the bad ones then! Yes there is vitriol, but unless I missed them, the personal attacks have been kept to a minimum (I don't think we handed out any warnings yet). Does that mean people aren't heated....no.

I'm learning stuff. For example, I never contemplated the case of a person admitted to the hospital due to trauma, being tested for Covid and "counting" as a break through covid admission. I can see how the data would easily show that - filter for covid positive admissions. My company writes the software that produces reports like these....there isn't the ability in most systems to say "filter for primary admittance reason" because its just a list of diagnoses, blunt force trauma to......, Covid Positive, etc.

 

[Robconn]

Guess you must have missed the bad ones then! Yes there is vitriol, but unless I missed them, the personal attacks have been kept to a minimum (I don't think we handed out any warnings yet). Does that mean people aren't heated....no.

I'm learning stuff. For example, I never contemplated the case of a person admitted to the hospital due to trauma, being tested for Covid and "counting" as a break through covid admission. I can see how the data would easily show that - filter for covid positive admissions. My company writes the software that produces reports like these....there isn't the ability in most systems to say "filter for primary admittance reason" because its just a list of diagnoses, blunt force trauma to......, Covid Positive, etc.

That would help greatly the addition of admission categories. My example demonstrated only absolutes and not defined by circumstance. Thank you for recognizing that.
It is essential that we sort out a covid positive person upon admission no matter the severity In order to protect other patients and staff from potential outbreaks. We are getting more efficient at essentially running two hospitals simultaneously. Making sure every day routine procedures continue to happen while caring for the covid population. So many people previously had to post pone therapies which contributed to personal hardships.

 

[crazy4life]

But, I will say this:
when a Republican governor of Alabama tells you 'It's the unvaccinated folks that are letting us down', you pretty much know it's time to get the jab, if you can, or shut the fuck up.

--

I am not the only one that wished that applied to you. Telling anyone on this site to shut the fuck up is pretty arrogant even for you. So anyone who doesn’t agree with your opinion should shut the fuck up.
Your just can’t let it go can you. How about just post data and leave the snide comments and insults to your inferior neighbors.

it has been asked multiple times to leave your bullshit for Twitter or Facebook and not here.

Never gonna happen but one could only hope. Many members on the site have asked to keep this thread on topic and certain people think that it’s there opportunity to blatantly disparage other members.

 

[Julian]

That would help greatly the addition of admission categories. My example demonstrated only absolutes and not defined by circumstance. Thank you for recognizing that.

Yeah....the problem with reports like these is that in order to gain that next level of granularity, we need more data entered, and docs are already overwhelmed with the amount of data they are being asked to provide. Add a drop down for diagnosis priority/importance/relevance and its just another click.....and they are being clicked to death already!

The flip side, is I can easily see why it would be cool to have! Unfortunately it is also really hard to teach an AI/ML engine how to prioritize those reliably. This is where we are working with clinicians to try and build models that looking across the data COULD more reliably figure it out. See what has been ordered - cranial xray - huh---probably (but not certainly) head injury? Plasma etc. Then you teach it to look at all those things and go.....looks like trauma is first. But there is always that outlier that fouls it up - chest xray....trauma or lungs? Job security!

 

[tabbibus]

You guys do great work down there. Thanks!

That would help greatly the addition of admission categories. My example demonstrated only absolutes and not defined by circumstance. Thank you for recognizing that.
It is essential that we sort out a covid positive person upon admission no matter the severity In order to protect other patients and staff from potential outbreaks. We are getting more efficient at essentially running two hospitals simultaneously. Making sure every day routine procedures continue to happen while caring for the covid population. So many people previously had to post pone therapies which contributed to personal hardships.

 

[2kwik4u]

Telling anyone on this site to shut the fuck up is pretty arrogant even for you.

Not excusing those words, but we're essentially asking a firefighter to put down his hose to explain to us the benefits of water being sprayed on a fire, and then looking him in the face after his explanation and saying "Yea, but I read on the internet that water doesn't really work, and we don't know if it will kill us in a decade. You shouldn't be such a sheep and think for yourself like us".........Visualize that situation and let it sink in for a second.......Those words.........To a trained firefighter, that knows how water and fire interaction works, and knows what the aftermath of a fire without water looks like, and has the capability and authority to deliver the water to those on fire. He is quite literally the expert here. There isn't another person here that knows more than he does on this topic, in this discussion. A person that has spent a career studying, researching, experimenting, to create an understanding, then verifying his understandings with rigorous analysis.

I'm completely gobsmacked overall that he hasn't lost his shit until now (not saying he has, but those are pretty harsh words). I can only imagine the frustration. Again, not excusing those words, but I can see the source of agitation that created them.

 

[Bruce]

My understanding of the efficacy of this vaccine or any for that matter is they do not 100% prevent one from getting covid, flu or other malady. They primarily work to reduce severity of symptoms. Thus, decreasing missed work days, hospital admissions and reduce transmission rates. The greater the number of vaccinated the greater the effect on the general population.

That is correct. Vaccines do not prevent the contraction of a virus, they reduce the risk of the virus causing severe illness. Vaccination is training to fight, it is not a shield.

The more of the population that is vaccinated the less that the virus will spread as vaccinated people are less likely to spread the virus. Eventually this coronavirus will become like the others. Once enough of us have immunity the virus and most if not all future variants will be similar to the common cold. Most of us will experience mild coughing or sneezing symptoms but some either due to weakened immune system or lack of immunity will become very ill or die just like the common cold.

Not everyone should get a vaccine. Those that are imunocompromised or have had long term symptoms from previous vaccines are not advised.

For the immunocompromised the vaccine will have less benefit but in many instances it is advised. For example I know that muscular dystrophy patients who often take corticosteroids which reduce immune response and neutropenia patients who have little to no immune response are advised to and taking the vaccines with very few adverse effects.

As for previous vaccine experience. These are new vaccines that work very differently with different ingredients. Obviously something to discuss with a doctor but past negative vaccine experiences are unlikely to be reason to avoid these vaccines.

 

[tabbibus]

Not excusing those words, but we're essentially asking a firefighter to put down his hose to explain to us the benefits of water being sprayed on a fire, and then looking him in the face after his explanation and saying "Yea, but I read on the internet that water doesn't really work, and we don't know if it will kill us in a decade. You shouldn't be such a sheep and think for yourself like us".........Visualize that situation and let it sink in for a second.......Those words.........To a trained firefighter, that knows how water and fire interaction works, and knows what the aftermath of a fire without water looks like, and has the capability and authority to deliver the water to those on fire. He is quite literally the expert here. There isn't another person here that knows more than he does on this topic, in this discussion. A person that has spent a career studying, researching, experimenting, to create an understanding, then verifying his understandings with rigorous analysis.

I'm completely gobsmacked overall that he hasn't lost his shit until now (not saying he has, but those are pretty harsh words). I can only imagine the frustration. Again, not excusing those words, but I can see the source of agitation that created them.

Wowza! great analogy

 

[crazy4life]

Not excusing those words, but we're essentially asking a firefighter to put down his hose to explain to us the benefits of water being sprayed on a fire, and then looking him in the face after his explanation and saying "Yea, but I read on the internet that water doesn't really work, and we don't know if it will kill us in a decade. You shouldn't be such a sheep and think for yourself like us".........Visualize that situation and let it sink in for a second.......Those words.........To a trained firefighter, that knows how water and fire interaction works, and knows what the aftermath of a fire without water looks like, and has the capability and authority to deliver the water to those on fire. He is quite literally the expert here. There isn't another person here that knows more than he does on this topic, in this discussion. A person that has spent a career studying, researching, experimenting, to create an understanding, then verifying his understandings with rigorous analysis.

I'm completely gobsmacked overall that he hasn't lost his shit until now (not saying he has, but those are pretty harsh words). I can only imagine the frustration. Again, not excusing those words, but I can see the source of agitation that created them.

Not excusing those words, but we're essentially asking a firefighter to put down his hose to explain to us the benefits of water being sprayed on a fire, and then looking him in the face after his explanation and saying "Yea, but I read on the internet that water doesn't really work, and we don't know if it will kill us in a decade. You shouldn't be such a sheep and think for yourself like us".........Visualize that situation and let it sink in for a second.......Those words.........To a trained firefighter, that knows how water and fire interaction works, and knows what the aftermath of a fire without water looks like, and has the capability and authority to deliver the water to those on fire. He is quite literally the expert here. There isn't another person here that knows more than he does on this topic, in this discussion. A person that has spent a career studying, researching, experimenting, to create an understanding, then verifying his understandings with rigorous analysis.

I'm completely gobsmacked overall that he hasn't lost his shit until now (not saying he has, but those are pretty harsh words). I can only imagine the frustration. Again, not excusing those words, but I can see the source of agitation that created them.

More like a petulant child not getting his way. People such as yourself making excuses for someone telling other members to SHUT THE FUCK UP is maybe why he is like that.

I can get down in the mud with the best of them. Why I do not you might ask. Because I have respect for my fellow boaters on this site. I learned a long time ago that you and you alone are responsible for your actions. I do not need anyone making excuses for my behavior when I am acting untoward to other people. Could not care less about the firefighter and his hose. When that firefighter needs help from his other firefighters ———- well help might be so forthcoming if you know what I mean.