The Vaccine

[Troch1]

CDC: 74% Of People Infected in Massachusetts COVID-19 Outbreak Were Vaccinated

Most states aren't even tracking breakthrough cases.

CDC seems sufficiently concerned to me..

https://www.washingtonpost.com/context/cdc-breakthrough-infections/94390e3a-5e45-44a5-ac40-2744e4e25f2e/?fbclid=IwAR0dJwvwHyIaFFeAEqxDiARrCCIEPhAXnhQoueoS55hiN2fiIdvwZS7ZZ5Y

Take home points…. Vaccinated folks are about 3 fold less likely to get infected with Delta. Vaccinated folks are about 3-4 fold less likely to get symptomatic infections if they do get Delta. Vaccinated folks are about 20 fold less likely to die from Delta.

Also worth noting, however, is that vaccinated folks infected with Delta carry a similar high load of virus in the upper airways meaning they can potentially spread it, as well.

TL;DR…We’d be done by now if everyone got their vaccines….

 

[tabbibus]

CDC seems sufficiently concerned to me..

https://www.washingtonpost.com/context/cdc-breakthrough-infections/94390e3a-5e45-44a5-ac40-2744e4e25f2e/?fbclid=IwAR0dJwvwHyIaFFeAEqxDiARrCCIEPhAXnhQoueoS55hiN2fiIdvwZS7ZZ5Y

Take home points…. Vaccinated folks are about 3 fold less likely to get infected with Delta. Vaccinated folks are about 3-4 fold less likely to get symptomatic infections if they do get Delta. Vaccinated folks are about 20 fold less likely to die from Delta.

Also worth noting, however, is that vaccinated folks infected with Delta carry a similar high load of virus in the upper airways meaning they can potentially spread it, as well.

TL;DR…We’d be done by now if everyone got their vaccines….

I mean, yes. yes. yes yes. and yes...

and yet.... argh. Maybe Thanos was right.

 

[tabbibus]

I'm sorry, what? A terminally ill patient who would otherwise live 5 months, gets covid and dies in 1 week, died from freaking covid.

Yes, we decided to use the thousands of deaths and even more chronically impaired after surviving covid as a political weapon. That's how we roll. We intentionally lie so that... checks notes... we can call Trump a racist or win political points.

Your local MD better have good proof about that, and report it. Otherwise he's just sucks.

You would think by now I would let these comments pass, but today is particularly rough covid wise, and it is so frustrating to still see this statements out there.

Oh, and that editorial from march of 2020 that you linked to is exactly what Bruce means. If we were to NOT follow the scentific method we would still be saying that COVID aint such a big deal. But hey, science happened. And we learned. And we changed our stance based on what we learned. You will be surprised to find out that we don't do routine blood letting for "hysteria" anymore, cause you know, science.

 

[BigN8]

We just pulled out of the International Roofing Expo in Vegas that was set for Aug 11. We are also probably pulling out of the big Building Envelope convention scheduled for Phoenix in Sept. I would say concerts are about to come to a grinding halt, and whelp, say goodbye to sports venues.

 

[Dean P]

OMG...for the love of GOD, grow up.

 

[msavold]

??
Dang people!
I've been off this thread for a while and still it spins in circles that I simply can't comprehend...
1. Persistent questioning of "mixed messages" from CDC/docs/etc. Filter out the (predominantly political) yahoos that get most of the press by making ignorant uninformed comments for their own personal, political, or financial benefit (eg: Kamala Harris saying she wouldn't take a "Trump vaccine", Pelosi on numerous occasions...). Those are all uniformed or misguided crap that often gets intermingled with messages from those that truly KNOW what's going on AT THE TIME. Seriously, who among us hasn't either personally or professionally found themselves in a situation where we thought "oh, shit, this is MUCH worse than I first thought" and then changed course of action? At first particularly here in NA we dismissed CoVID as a 'foreign' problem - as did Australia, New Zealand, etc. So why worry about it - and that's the message that went out, rightly or wrongly. Would you have preferred a message of "PANIC in case it comes here"? Then it got F*ing awful and the message was PANIC. Got better so the message was "ok, you can ease up on masks etc." But now it appears to be getting worse again so what should the message be? Ramp up defenses and get criticized for mixed messages or let it ride and be "consistent"?
2. Criticism that the vaccines were developed "too fast". Just a few pages back someone questioned that this vaccine was developed in less than a year instead of the 'normal' multiple years or even decades. Uh.... anyone care to acknowledge that technology and our GLOBAL knowledge base has changed IMMENSELY, even since the last major vaccine was developed? Best analogy I've come up with is aviation. Go back to when man first tried to fly, flinging themselves off cliffs with paper contraptions. Shit, that didn't work! Innovation from the Wright brothers until about WW2 was slow and still involved hit-or-miss stuff. Now, it's all computer modeled and done in a relative blink of an eye. Yeah, 737-8 got a lot of bad press for speed lately - but what about all the other aircraft that have come on line in the last 20 years, all computer designed and verified - and safe. Same thing with vaccines.
3. There are countless articles and posts from countless sources - including here - documenting that the ratio of unvaccinated people dying lately is shocking. Wait. Vaccinated people are getting sick too! Ok. BUT THEY'RE NOT DYING! I'll take that. I don't want - or better don't NEED - the government to tell me to get vaccinated. If it means a vaccine increases the likelihood of seeing my brand new granddaughter grow up, I'll get in line all on my own, thank you! Spurious arguments also get thrown in about how some of the unvax that are getting ill and dying have other conditions going on. When the ratio is, what, 97:3 or better, isn't 'mitigating conditions' grasping at straws?
As I know others have said here, even recently, and I think I've said here before, there is one thing that is a positive about this whole pandemic: it has exposed people that I know personally and professionally, even family members, that are easily manipulated and completely incapable of logical, quantitative, rational thought. Sigh. Let the chlorination of the gene pool continue!
<stepping off soapbox again>

 

[Ronnie]

Thanks Bruce, your statements align with my current understanding. That is, the vaccinated are not immune from contracting Covid but those that have been vaccinated are a lot less likely to experience severe reactions or die than those who have not been vaccinated.

If this is correct it would have made deciding to get vaccinated easier / a no brainer for me had I not already been vaccinated. Getting back to the father of 5 who recently passed away, personally I would have gotten vaccinated if I was on the fence and only had one child. Now there are an additional 5 kids that have to grow up without a father. Losing a day or two getting vaccinated and recovering from being vaccinated looks like a small price to pay compared to the alternative, death/losing the rest of the days of your life.

I am glad my immediate family and self have been vaccinated. We are headed to mexico soon, no test on the way out but must pass one to come back. I will be sure to pack and use masks when appropriate. The county I live in and the surrounding counties here in the SF Bay Area just reimplemented mandatory mask use while indoors at businesses. The vendors don’t like it but must comply or be shut down.

 

[I_squared_r]

I'm thinking about getting the vaccine this week.. its been a little over 3 months since I recovered from COVID and the cases have been increasing here. I'm definitely not trying to lose a week of my summer to getting covid again.

I tried googling if there was any new information about people who recovered and the vaccine, but it seems there's no research into this.. Just a few sources that say 1 shot is enough and the CDC says 2 shots. But the CDC has been leaning to the side of caution and late on everything.. Anyone have info?

 

[mark_m]

I'm thinking about getting the vaccine this week.. its been a little over 3 months since I recovered from COVID and the cases have been increasing here. I'm definitely not trying to lose a week of my summer to getting covid again.

I tried googling if there was any new information about people who recovered and the vaccine, but it seems there's no research into this.. Just a few sources that say 1 shot is enough and the CDC says 2 shots. But the CDC has been leaning to the side of caution and late on everything.. Anyone have info?

Anecdotal info:

My wife had it (Covid) and she got the moderna shot. I never tested positive but I know I had Covid. After getting the shots I actually felt like the vaccine was the answer to kicking off long Covid. I had a persistent cough and it felt like bronchitis for months until I got the shot it didn’t go away. The inhaler (albuterol) and some antibiotics never seemed to kick it.

please be well and take care

 

[mark_m]

Interesting piece from the former director of health and human services, Alex Azar. I Was the Architect of Operation Warp Speed. I Have a Message for All Americans.

 

[Mesa50]

I'm sorry, what? A terminally ill patient who would otherwise live 5 months, gets covid and dies in 1 week, died from freaking covid.

Yes, we decided to use the thousands of deaths and even more chronically impaired after surviving covid as a political weapon. That's how we roll. We intentionally lie so that... checks notes... we can call Trump a racist or win political points.

Your local MD better have good proof about that, and report it. Otherwise he's just sucks.

You would think by now I would let these comments pass, but today is particularly rough covid wise, and it is so frustrating to still see this statements out there.

Oh, and that editorial from march of 2020 that you linked to is exactly what Bruce means. If we were to NOT follow the scentific method we would still be saying that COVID aint such a big deal. But hey, science happened. And we learned. And we changed our stance based on what we learned. You will be surprised to find out that we don't do routine blood letting for "hysteria" anymore, cause you know, science.

So science is making random, and incorrect statements, until one of the incorrect statements is grasped on to by enough people who then get angry when challenged. Once you have achieved a consensus on the incorrect information, you move on to the next incorrect statement, dragging your followers along. These followers, all believe they are far too intelligent to have been misled, so will then defend all the initial bad information. All while funding =Science

I'm thinking about getting the vaccine this week.. its been a little over 3 months since I recovered from COVID and the cases have been increasing here. I'm definitely not trying to lose a week of my summer to getting covid again.

I tried googling if there was any new information about people who recovered and the vaccine, but it seems there's no research into this.. Just a few sources that say 1 shot is enough and the CDC says 2 shots. But the CDC has been leaning to the side of caution and late on everything.. Anyone have info?

I had both doses of the Pfizer vaccine, and only had a mild headache for a few hours the morning after the 2nd dose. It actually has been a relief, and I feel much more comfortable doing things in public. I didn’t do anything around groups of other people from Late March 2020 until mid May this year. I’ve actually been to two professional baseball games, and it felt weird for a little bit, but it was nice to act like a normal American again.

 

[fatboyroy]

I'm thinking about getting the vaccine this week.. its been a little over 3 months since I recovered from COVID and the cases have been increasing here. I'm definitely not trying to lose a week of my summer to getting covid again.

I tried googling if there was any new information about people who recovered and the vaccine, but it seems there's no research into this.. Just a few sources that say 1 shot is enough and the CDC says 2 shots. But the CDC has been leaning to the side of caution and late on everything.. Anyone have info?

1st one was almost no effect to me, 2nd dose I was tired all day the following day, feel like I worked out 8 hours straight lol. Not bad at all, I picked 2 dose Moderna! Only J&J (1 dose) have known side effect of blood clotting to mostly woman, I dont want to take chance so I took Moderna.

 

[Bruce]

So science is making random, and incorrect statements, until one of the incorrect statements is grasped on to by enough people who then get angry when challenged. Once you have achieved a consensus on the incorrect information, you move on to the next incorrect statement, dragging your followers along. These followers, all believe they are far too intelligent to have been misled, so will then defend all the initial bad information. All while funding =Science

It is often said that criticism is the backbone of the scientific method. Science rarely plays out so quickly or has so much interference from politics.

 

[Mesa50]

??
Dang people!
I've been off this thread for a while and still it spins in circles that I simply can't comprehend...
1. Persistent questioning of "mixed messages" from CDC/docs/etc. Filter out the (predominantly political) yahoos that get most of the press by making ignorant uninformed comments for their own personal, political, or financial benefit (eg: Kamala Harris saying she wouldn't take a "Trump vaccine", Pelosi on numerous occasions...). Those are all uniformed or misguided crap that often gets intermingled with messages from those that truly KNOW what's going on AT THE TIME. Seriously, who among us hasn't either personally or professionally found themselves in a situation where we thought "oh, shit, this is MUCH worse than I first thought" and then changed course of action? At first particularly here in NA we dismissed CoVID as a 'foreign' problem - as did Australia, New Zealand, etc. So why worry about it - and that's the message that went out, rightly or wrongly. Would you have preferred a message of "PANIC in case it comes here"? Then it got F*ing awful and the message was PANIC. Got better so the message was "ok, you can ease up on masks etc." But now it appears to be getting worse again so what should the message be? Ramp up defenses and get criticized for mixed messages or let it ride and be "consistent"?
2. Criticism that the vaccines were developed "too fast". Just a few pages back someone questioned that this vaccine was developed in less than a year instead of the 'normal' multiple years or even decades. Uh.... anyone care to acknowledge that technology and our GLOBAL knowledge base has changed IMMENSELY, even since the last major vaccine was developed? Best analogy I've come up with is aviation. Go back to when man first tried to fly, flinging themselves off cliffs with paper contraptions. Shit, that didn't work! Innovation from the Wright brothers until about WW2 was slow and still involved hit-or-miss stuff. Now, it's all computer modeled and done in a relative blink of an eye. Yeah, 737-8 got a lot of bad press for speed lately - but what about all the other aircraft that have come on line in the last 20 years, all computer designed and verified - and safe. Same thing with vaccines.
3. There are countless articles and posts from countless sources - including here - documenting that the ratio of unvaccinated people dying lately is shocking. Wait. Vaccinated people are getting sick too! Ok. BUT THEY'RE NOT DYING! I'll take that. I don't want - or better don't NEED - the government to tell me to get vaccinated. If it means a vaccine increases the likelihood of seeing my brand new granddaughter grow up, I'll get in line all on my own, thank you! Spurious arguments also get thrown in about how some of the unvax that are getting ill and dying have other conditions going on. When the ratio is, what, 97:3 or better, isn't 'mitigating conditions' grasping at straws?
As I know others have said here, even recently, and I think I've said here before, there is one thing that is a positive about this whole pandemic: it has exposed people that I know personally and professionally, even family members, that are easily manipulated and completely incapable of logical, quantitative, rational thought. Sigh. Let the chlorination of the gene pool continue!
<stepping off soapbox again>

Exactly my point. I got the vaccine, and I’m encouraging my family to do the same. I was simply trying to say we shouldn’t have a difficult time understanding people’s hesitancy, given how irresponsible our national leadership’s rhetoric was.

 

[Julian]

Interesting piece from the former director of health and human services, Alex Azar. I Was the Architect of Operation Warp Speed. I Have a Message for All Americans.

I didn't read it all....but it seemed to only call out Republicans. There are plenty on both sides not getting vaccinated. In particular in minority communities.

Glad to see vaccination rates are picking up though!

 

[mark_m]

I didn't read it all....but it seemed to only call out Republicans. There are plenty on both sides not getting vaccinated. In particular in minority communities.

Glad to see vaccination rates are picking up though!

It’s worth a read. It’s pointing out facts like the virus is non partisan and some suggestions around messaging that might reduce vaccine hesitancy,

 

[Ronnie]

I was at a birthday lunch at a buffet a few weeks ago when one of my wife’s uncles tried to convince me and a nurse in the family that the Covid is a hoax. Thankfully my family was seated at another table already, I just didn’t want to talk about Covid that day, the first buffet I’d been to since March of 2020 )it sucked by the way). I’m sure the nurse stuck at his table was suffering having to listen to such claims.

i just looked into booking a room near the water in old Sacramento for a boating weekend in mid September. Now I’m not sure if I should do so since masks are now being required in some counties and if the restrictions are reimplemented it’s won’t be as social/fun to be in old Sacramento, where most of the business are bars, restaraunts or candy shops.

 

[Evil Sports]

I'm thinking about getting the vaccine this week.. its been a little over 3 months since I recovered from COVID and the cases have been increasing here. I'm definitely not trying to lose a week of my summer to getting covid again.

I tried googling if there was any new information about people who recovered and the vaccine, but it seems there's no research into this.. Just a few sources that say 1 shot is enough and the CDC says 2 shots. But the CDC has been leaning to the side of caution and late on everything.. Anyone have info?

I have been tracking my lgG antibodies since March as a result of my infection in December. I almost went and got the J&J yesterday but got sucked into a busy day. I wish there was more info on previous infection but the rate of people with reinfection is So low its not even discussed. Im not one to follow the herd blindly like many but I am a do the right thing guy. Ill be watching for more opportunities to get the J&J near me, especially with the Vax pass chatter out of NY

 

[MidnightRider]

Covid is a serious problem. Vaccines are important. The liberty for people to choose what they put in their own bodies is essential. The ability for government at any level to dictate what a person is forced to inject into their body is extremely dangerous. I'll never understand how people are so haphazard about precedent as long as the issue lines up with their beliefs/views/agenda. What people do not seem to get is that precedent is set for years to come, then they start crying in the future when that precedent is used to force something on them that they don't agree with. Giving up your freedom of choice today to force someone to conform to your beliefs/views/agenda may end in you giving up your freedom of choice later to be forced against your own beliefs/views/agenda.

I have been tracking my lgG antibodies since March as a result of my infection in December. I almost went and got the J&J yesterday but got sucked into a busy day. I wish there was more info on previous infection but the rate of people with reinfection is So low its not even discussed. Im not one to follow the herd blindly like many but I am a do the right thing guy. Ill be watching for more opportunities to get the J&J near me, especially with the Vax pass chatter out of NY

I too think data on immunity from previous infection would be very interesting to see in comparison to current immunity from the vaccination.
Anecdotally, my wife just was at a big convention down south. She stayed with and hung out with a group of women from where we live. On return a number of those ladies got sick with COVID, not just a little sick but in bed sick. They were all vaccinated. My wife has chose not to get vaccinated as she previously had COVID... she did not get sick. Again, I understand this is anecdotal and nothing to base anything on but it does make me very curious as to vaccine immunity vs previous infection immunity data beyond the official statements I've seen that are filled with "it may", "it might", "we think", "we assume", "some evidence" etc.

 

[Bruce]

@Evil Sports, @MidnightRider I believe you will find this not to be the detailed census that you desire but to be interesting and informative. Prospects for durable immune control of SARS-CoV-2 and prevention of reinfection - Nature Reviews Immunology

My personal, not medical, opinion is that the antibodies formed to vaccination were designed to be responsive against variants making them more desirable that naturally acquired antibodies. This may be evident in the resolution of long CoVID symptoms that has occurred for many after vaccination. Personally I would prefer to get vaccinated then acquire natural antibodies rather than the other way around.

Evil Sports why take J&J? The mRNA vaccines are in sufficient supply and look to be both more effective and safer. All three authorized vaccines are safe and effective however the mRNA vaccines do seem to be better than the virally delivered J&J DNA vaccine.