The Vaccine

[Dean P]

Another country heard from...

 

[Lurch]

I read a private message by our family friend, a long time family practitioner, a neurologist by subspecialty, living and practicing in one of the midwestern states. He was my wife's former high school swim team member in Tulsa, OK, she said this is the first time ever she had seen him post anything about covid.

I find it poignant; do we still belong in so called "developed world"? I'm honestly not sure.

This is his post:
"This information is too preposterous not to share. This is the kind of shit the medical profession has to deal with: My home town ER #1 reason for an ER visit last week - Covid 19 (no surprise and has been the case for 2 months now), but the new #2 reason for an ER visit----- Ivermectin overdose! I just wish I was kidding "

--

To follow Dean's lead, I'd like to see the underlying data here, otherwise it's just propaganda.

 

[Lurch]

Because there isn't any. Why do you think there are? There is no magic bullet. People like being noticed and apparently will do anything to get there. I'm sure if the science was there to back it up we'd all join the bandwagon. But, it's not...

Are you really stating that maintaining a healthy weight, exercise regimen, smoking cessation and other factors that promote lung health, personal hygiene and nutrition have no bearing on the severity of a COVID infection? Follow the science indeed...

 

[AZMark]

Are you really stating that maintaining a healthy weight, exercise regimen, smoking cessation and other factors that promote lung health, personal hygiene and nutrition have no bearing on the severity of a COVID infection? Follow the science indeed...

You can’t do anything meaningful about those factors in two weeks, which is about how long it takes the vaccine to work.

 

[Lurch]

You can’t do anything meaningful about those factors in two weeks, which is about how long it takes the vaccine to work.

That's a strawman - If I was in a high risk group, and knew I was going to get COVID in two weeks, I'd get the jab. Of course, maintaining an unhealthy lifestyle would likely result in dying of heart disease, lung cancer, diabetic complications, etc. before departing this mortal coil due to COVID complications.

 

[Jim_in_Delaware]

From the FDA Consumer Report that I linked above,

"Here’s What You Need to Know about Ivermectin

• The FDA has not authorized or approved ivermectin for use in preventing or treating COVID-19 in humans or animals. Ivermectin is approved for human use to treat infections caused by some parasitic worms and head lice and skin conditions like rosacea.
• Currently available data do not show ivermectin is effective against COVID-19. Clinical trials assessing ivermectin tablets for the prevention or treatment of COVID-19 in people are ongoing.
• Taking large doses of ivermectin is dangerous.
• If your health care provider writes you an ivermectin prescription, fill it through a legitimate source such as a pharmacy, and take it exactly as prescribed.
• Never use medications intended for animals on yourself or other people. Animal ivermectin products are very different from those approved for humans. Use of animal ivermectin for the prevention or treatment of COVID-19 in humans is dangerous. "

Jim

 

[Jim_in_Delaware]

That's a strawman - If I was in a high risk group, and knew I was going to get COVID in two weeks, I'd get the jab. Of course, maintaining an unhealthy lifestyle would likely result in dying of heart disease, lung cancer, diabetic complications, etc. before departing this mortal coil due to COVID complications.

I understand your point about maintaining a healthy lifestyle. Please note, however, that not all heart diseases, lung cancers, or diabetes are caused by unhealthy lifestyles.

Jim

 

[Lurch]

Yep - clinical trials are ongoing. Meaning there is at least some indication that it may be an effective therapeutic/prophylactic. That being said, please don't go eat a tube of horse paste without talking to your Dr.

 

[Lurch]

I understand your point about maintaining a healthy lifestyle. Please note, however, that not all heart diseases, lung cancers, or diabetes are caused by unhealthy lifestyles.

Jim

Absolutely agreed! But the lifestyle choices I'd stated above do certainly correlate to higher incidence of those diseases.

 

[AZMark]

That's a strawman - If I was in a high risk group, and knew I was going to get COVID in two weeks, I'd get the jab. Of course, maintaining an unhealthy lifestyle would likely result in dying of heart disease, lung cancer, diabetic complications, etc. before departing this mortal coil due to COVID complications.

It’s not a strawman at all. You’re proposing something that takes a year or much more for seriously unhealthy people as though it’s some type of alternative to the vaccine.
Yes, being healthy is obviously good and would probably reduce the impact of covid on most people. It’s not a realistic solution for a highly contagious disease that’s already out there spreading though.

 

[2kwik4u]

@tabbibus, I think we all respect your strong passion about this topic. What city is your hospital in?

I don't know if you're dealing with a regional issue, but there is rising evidence that hospitals globally aren't seeing the same thing you are, and that the vaccinations could be provoking the situation. Locally, I hear first hand accounts from people in our hospital system that they aren't being inundated with the unvaccinated. It's also perplexing that we're also seeing about as many press reports that say that hospitals are bursting with unvaccinated cases as reports that show the contrary. Several times a week we're seeing fully-vaccinated sports personalities benched due to Covid19 infections. Now, we're starting to see numerous press reports of Israel, arguably the MOST vaccinated and herd immune country in the world becoming a hotbed of breakout cases.

Inside Israel's recent outbreak: Why mostly vaccinated people are testing positive

The first country to reach vaccine herd immunity has seen a recent rise in cases, mostly among vaccinated people. What does this mean? What’s going on?

www.deseret.com

Most Hospitalizations In Israel Are 'Vaccinated'...Breakthough Infections Skyrocketing - Tsionizm

Perhaps investigators should look at relationships between Israeli government officials and big Pharma.

tsionizm.com

With all due respect. Those two linked stories are SIGNIFICANTLY different in their credibility and content, sharing only the similarity of headlines.

The first is well written, has appropriate length, and draws some vague conclusions based on information presented. Lots of "facts reported you draw a conclusion" tone in this piece.

The second is from a largely unknown source, and makes a heavy accusation at the end after drawing data from a single twitter post. Lots of "here's the conclusion you should draw" with a demeaning tone in this piece. The even went so far as to put the word vaccine in quotes.

I use this site a LOT to find bias and intention within new reporting. It's worth a bookmark in the age if misinformation. Interactive Media Bias Chart - Ad Fontes Media The more I use it the easier it is to spot disingenuous reporting.

 

[2kwik4u]

Show examples. I keep seeing you and others say I post misinformation. Where?

I’m not antivax and never acted as such. I got vaccinated. I agree it helps and better than the alternative. I also agree with individual rights. These are the views I’ve shared plenty of times. That doesn’t mean I can’t have concerns with what I put in my body. That’s the concept I think some of y’all are having a hard time grasping. There are many people like myself who took the vaccine but can still have reason to worry. It’s is not just 2 sides of pro vaccine and anti vaccine.

Honest question.

What are your concerns? Is it personal (if so, that's a fine answer and needs nothing further) or is it something else?

 

[tabbibus]

@tabbibus, I think we all respect your strong passion about this topic. What city is your hospital in?

I don't know if you're dealing with a regional issue, but there is rising evidence that hospitals globally aren't seeing the same thing you are, and that the vaccinations could be provoking the situation. Locally, I hear first hand accounts from people in our hospital system that they aren't being inundated with the unvaccinated. It's also perplexing that we're also seeing about as many press reports that say that hospitals are bursting with unvaccinated cases as reports that show the contrary. Several times a week we're seeing fully-vaccinated sports personalities benched due to Covid19 infections. Now, we're starting to see numerous press reports of Israel, arguably the MOST vaccinated and herd immune country in the world becoming a hotbed of breakout cases.

Inside Israel's recent outbreak: Why mostly vaccinated people are testing positive

The first country to reach vaccine herd immunity has seen a recent rise in cases, mostly among vaccinated people. What does this mean? What’s going on?

www.deseret.com

Most Hospitalizations In Israel Are 'Vaccinated'...Breakthough Infections Skyrocketing - Tsionizm

Perhaps investigators should look at relationships between Israeli government officials and big Pharma.

tsionizm.com

I'm in the Atlanta. All the hospitals in the state show large burden of unvaxxed vs vaxxed. I have not seen actual numbers of a hospitals here or elsewhere in the US showing more vaxxed than unvaxxed.

Now Israel is interesting. We are learning a lot from them. Yes, they have a lot more vaxxed people in the hospital than us. And that can be due to a few factors of the top of my head:
- Protection wears off. I think this is well accepted now. Hence the booster shot. They saw a significant decrease in severe breakthrough cases with the booster.
- The vast majority of people are vaccinated. Hence the pools from which the population will come are skewed. Mathematically it is more likely that a vaccinated patient will be sick than unvaccinated just because they have so few unvaccinated people. Not because the vaccine does not work. Again, see reason #1

 

[Jim_in_Delaware]

- The vast majority of people are vaccinated. Hence the pools from which the population will come are skewed. Mathematically it is more likely that a vaccinated patient will be sick than unvaccinated just because they have so few unvaccinated people. Not because the vaccine does not work. Again, see reason #1

I would agree that it does not diminish the immense value of the vaccine, especially given the small number of break-though cases. But, it is an interesting mathematical point. ?

Jim

 

[scbruet]

My wife got her 2 pfizer shots early in her 3rd trimester, and we welcomed our first child into this world on 8/8. My wife had no complications, and neither did the baby. It's a great peace of mind knowing that some level of immunity did transfer to the baby, but I would like to see an antibody test for my own curiosity to see how effective the pfizer shot was at passing antibodies. I'm sure there are varying results so far.

 

[tabbibus]

My wife got her 2 pfizer shots early in her 3rd trimester, and we welcomed our first child into this world on 8/8. My wife had no complications, and neither did the baby. It's a great peace of mind knowing that some level of immunity did transfer to the baby, but I would like to see an antibody test for my own curiosity to see how effective the pfizer shot was at passing antibodies. I'm sure there are varying results so far.

Yeah, that would be interesting. But no one wants to poke a baby. haha.

I haven't seen this directly because I rarely work with OB patients, but my colleagues do tell me that they have seen way to many pregnant women have a failed pregnancy due to covid. Apparently it is quite a bad combo. Pregnancy already increases your risk of clotting, add COVID to that and it turns dire.

 

[Jim_in_Delaware]

My wife got her 2 pfizer shots early in her 3rd trimester, and we welcomed our first child into this world on 8/8. My wife had no complications, and neither did the baby. It's a great peace of mind knowing that some level of immunity did transfer to the baby, but I would like to see an antibody test for my own curiosity to see how effective the pfizer shot was at passing antibodies. I'm sure there are varying results so far.

Congratulations on your first child! It's great to hear that your baby and wife are doing fine.

It's an interesting question you ask about the level of immunity transferred to the baby. It's, of course, way to early to know, but the other question would be how long the baby's immunity might last.

Jim

 

[Dean P]

My wife got her 2 pfizer shots early in her 3rd trimester, and we welcomed our first child into this world on 8/8. My wife had no complications, and neither did the baby. It's a great peace of mind knowing that some level of immunity did transfer to the baby, but I would like to see an antibody test for my own curiosity to see how effective the pfizer shot was at passing antibodies. I'm sure there are varying results so far.

Congrats on the new baby! That's awesome.

 

[Lurch]

It’s not a strawman at all. You’re proposing something that takes a year or much more for seriously unhealthy people as though it’s some type of alternative to the vaccine.
Yes, being healthy is obviously good and would probably reduce the impact of covid on most people. It’s not a realistic solution for a highly contagious disease that’s already out there spreading though.

Sorry Mark, but you cherry-picked my post and moved the goalpost to "seriously unhealthy people". Taking supplemental vitamin D, C and Zinc, along with personal hygiene and adequate rest can take much less than a year to provide benefits, as can exercise and quitting smoking.

My point was, why is none of this being pushed?

 

[Julian]

My point was, why is none of this being pushed?

If your doctor wasn't already pushing all of this before the pandemic, you need a new doctor! Does all of that help....YUP. Does it provide the protection that any of the 3 vaccines available in the US provide....nope. There is a long list of things we all can do to be more healthy. There are 3 vaccines that are highly effective at preventing death and hospitalization from Covid.