Why is it illegal to sit in the transom seats underway in a jet boat?

[JimmyB]

Have there been any CM issues with Yamahas? The Admiral saw the article regarding the unfortunate passing of the 9 year old and is now leaning toward a row boat, canoe, or kayak for our boating. I told her I am careful when we idle and in no wake zones but that I would check around for any potential or known issues.

 

[Sbrown]

I would say that if it presents as a large concern for anybody, then installing a CO detector would be a smart move

 

[Julian]

Have there been any CM issues with Yamahas? The Admiral saw the article regarding the unfortunate passing of the 9 year old and is now leaning toward a row boat, canoe, or kayak for our boating. I told her I am careful when we idle and in no wake zones but that I would check around for any potential or known issues.

I dont recall any Yamaha owners ever posting about this as something that happened to them. Its relatively easy to counter and keep an eye out for. Long no wake zones....no heads hanging over the gunnels in the stern....especially small kids.

 

[Chrisbert]

It's not a USCG law or rule, primarily because the USCG doesn't make laws; they just enforce laws. With that being said most laws regarding this topic originate with the state more than federal. A lot of the state regulations are changing to reflect modern boat layouts, I've seen changes to the "No Bow Riding" laws that allow for bow riding on boats equipped to handle passengers in the bow. Other states still have laws on the books that make bow riding illegal, period. The fact that there are handles and seats on the stern of our boats does allow the argument to be made about where exactly the passenger area ends.

Not exactly the same in my mind; but either way, it is my understanding you can ride in the back of a pickup in most states if there is a proper seat and seatbelts installed back there.

Subaru Brat

 

[Jim_in_Delaware]

Technically, with the passenger seats, the Subaru Brat was a passenger car. I couldn't imagine riding in the back of a Brat for a long period of time. Although, it would have been much more comfortable than riding in the back of a regular pickup that I occassionally did in my youth!

The only reason for the seats in the back to be installed was to avoid the import tariff placed on light trucks.

Jim

 

[Rooster585]

There are documented cases of people passing out from CO2 fumes, falling in the water and drowning when sitting on or near a transom deck. As stated in previous posts, usually while driving slow. It is for real, not something made up by big brother.
I hate having the government and insurance companies telling everyone what to do, but I smell really strong fumes standing / sitting back there while the boat is running.

 

[Julian]

Since my last post a year ago, there has been a confirmed CO death on the back of a Yamaha. Actually made national "news"....

https://jetboaters.net/threads/another-carbon-monoxide-death.35224/

 

[Dixemon]

I think it has to do with riding outside of the main cockpit of the boat. Same reason you cant hang your feet over the bow while underway. they just make it a general rule you cant be out of that area of confinement bordered by the gunnels, step overs ect.. in order to catch all models of boats.

 

[ripler]

I think it has to do with riding outside of the main cockpit of the boat. Same reason you cant hang your feet over the bow while underway. they just make it a general rule you cant be out of that area of confinement bordered by the gunnels, step overs ect.. in order to catch all models of boats.

Not being allowed on the transom or swimdeck while underway is 100% related to CO exposure.

 

[Neutron]

Its always been called a SWIM platform, not seating while running platform.
Would you sit on a swim platform on a sterndrive, vdrive, outboard while running? Doubtful.

 

[Jim_in_Delaware]

You even have to be careful when not sitting on the swim deck. Here is a USCG pamphlet on carbon monoxide.

Jim

 

[Skierdad]

This summer two women were on a lake near here and sat on the very bottom of the swim platform (AR192) and dangled their legs in the water while the older daughter drove the boat around the lake. One was a nurse and caught onto what was happening about 45 minutes into the ride when they both got headaches. I know this because the following week those two gals were in my boat and told me about how sick they got.

I will be honest in that I let kids sit on the top platform when I first got my boat. After reading a few forum posts and realizing the issue, I don't allow it anymore. Even while moving or towing a wakesurf. I put all the ballast tanks back there so there isn't even a temptation.

 

[RobbieO]

Sometimes the exhaust smell is strong behind my boat (ar240). Of course with a better wave and deeper sweet spot you can get far enough back that it’s not an issue.

If you can smell the exhaust then you are smelling hydrocarbons, unburned fuel. Carbon Monoxide is partially burned fuel, and is odorless. That's why it's so dangerous.

 

[Julian]

This is one of those things that the captain of the boat needs to be aware of - that I'm certain most "captains" are clueless about.

If you have a passenger on boat that has a headache, looks sleepy (and didn't just pull an all nighter-but even if he did...think about their symptoms and watch them) throws up etc (symptoms of CO poisoning) you need to ACT. First of all, move them to the bow away from the engines - if condition improves good. If condition doesn't improve or worse - their symptoms get worse....ACT. This has happened on wake boats even with someone who never sat on the swim platform, but just sat in the back down low watching surfing for a long time. So in a perfect world.....keep people moving around the boat to different spots - and keep a CLOSE eye on anyone who spends a lot of time at the stern with engines running.

Breaking up your sets with lunch, swimming, etc is another way to ensure no one sits in the same spot for extended periods.

 

[tabbibus]

This is one of those things that the captain of the boat needs to be aware of - that I'm certain most "captains" are clueless about.

If you have a passenger on boat that has a headache, looks sleepy (and didn't just pull an all nighter-but even if he did...think about their symptoms and watch them) throws up etc (symptoms of CO poisoning) you need to ACT. First of all, move them to the bow away from the engines - if condition improves good. If condition doesn't improve or worse - their symptoms get worse....ACT. This has happened on wake boats even with someone who never sat on the swim platform, but just sat in the back down low watching surfing for a long time. So in a perfect world.....keep people moving around the boat to different spots - and keep a CLOSE eye on anyone who spends a lot of time at the stern with engines running.

Breaking up your sets with lunch, swimming, etc is another way to ensure no one sits in the same spot for extended periods.

Fantastic advice. Thanks.

 

[tdonoughue]

I agree this is good advice.

One caveat, tho: CO poisoning does not just get better over a few minutes. CO is dangerous because it binds to your red blood cells (like O2 does), but unlike oxygen, it doesn't let go. And while the CO is on there, the oxygen can't get into the same spot. It takes a very long time (and sometimes a hyperbaric chamber) to get the CO off of the red blood cells and let them again carry oxygen properly.

All this to say: ACT is right. But don't act as if a small 5 min break in the bow is going to fix things. ACT by moving them to the bow and moving your boat closer to where a 911 call can get them immediate help. If they get better in the next 5-10 min, it probably was not CO poisoning (or they are lying to you to not spoil the day). Much better to be safe when a life is at stake. We are captains. It is our primary responsibility to return our crew safely.

 

[Beachbummer]

Hope to never need it, but it's there a diagnostics that can be used at the time so evaluate the impact on the suspect?

Oxygen saturation shows as low? Something else?

Scary it does not improve on its own in some cases, that is surprising and new to me. Thanks for sharing!

 

[HangOutdoors]

I have two of these. One velcroed on the swim deck and one inside the cockpit above the scupper drain.

Amazon.com: Car, Vehicle, Aircraft Carbon Monoxide CO Detector | Fast Low-Level 9ppm Alarm | Vehicles, Police, Pilots, Travel, Bus, Trucks | Metal Body, Small 2oz | : Tools & Home Improvement

The half-life of carboxyhemoglobin is approximately 5 hours. This means that for a given exposure level, it will take about 5 hours for the level of carboxyhemoglobin in the blood to drop to half its current level after the exposure is terminated. Which means multiple short sessions have a period of a long session, this is typically what causes the grave circumstances on a boat. Furthermore it isn't just the amount of time you are exposed, it is also about PPM over time, time is just one component and not a true measurement unless you can determine the PPM rate. A chart below for reference, that I copied.

PPM CO	Time	Symptoms
35	8 hours	Maximum exposure allowed by OSHA in the workplace over an eight hour period.
200	2-3 hours	Mild headache, fatigue, nausea and dizziness.
400	1-2 hours	Serious headache-other symptoms intensify. Life threatening after 3 hours.
800	45 minutes	Dizziness, nausea and convulsions. Unconscious within 2 hours. Death within 2-3 hours.
1600	20 minutes	Headache, dizziness and nausea. Death within 1 hour.
3200	5-10 minutes	Headache, dizziness and nausea. Death within 1 hour.
6400	1-2 minutes	Headache, dizziness and nausea. Death within 25-30 minutes.
12,800	1-3 minutes	Death

IMHO, there really is no safe time to be on the swim platform while the engines are running, even at greater speeds a vacuum dead spot occurs in that area where it can pool. On my boat, no one rides back there while engines are running. It is my responsibility to ensure everyone's safety. It only takes someone to be dizzy or unconscious to fall in the water and drown or hit their head, etc.

This is not to mention the long term effects of inhaling CO over a life time, I am concerned especially for kids what the future ramifications could be.

The thing to note in the chart is that once you are exposed to a high enough PPM in a short amount of time, the signs will be there but death will be certain, without much can be done, even by medical personell. From what I have been told, even a chamber will most likely not save the life.

 

[HangOutdoors]

Also since I have used the CO detectors, I have set them off intentionally as well as unexpectedly. It is not hard to do.