2022 255X reverse Bucket issue experience

[TX_Mercenary]

these new fly by wire technology comes with some defects if you ever come across them in the new boats.

if you ever come across a problem where your reverse bucket will not deploy or stow when moving in forward and reverse with the engine notification coming on, go see your dealer, please take it to them as soon as possible.

The Symptoms:
Engine notification
steering was near impossible to control (due to the port side bucket down)
loose movement control of reverse bucket (for me it was the port side, its normally supposed to be locked in controls with the actuator, not loose)

Diagnosis:
system put the reverse bucket control in manual mode
apparently due system sensitivity for operating voltage, it was on the low Voltage end of the spectrum. (keep your batteries fully charged)

Solution:
Yamaha boat tech had to reset the whole system and re-program my computer to be placed back in auto-mode using their fancy can-bus system controller.

 

[Julian]

these new fly by wire technology comes with some defects if you ever come across them in the new boats.

if you ever come across a problem where your reverse bucket will not deploy or stow when moving in forward and reverse with the engine notification coming on, go see your dealer, please take it to them as soon as possible.

The Symptoms:
Engine notification
steering was near impossible to control (due to the port side bucket down)
loose movement control of reverse bucket (for me it was the port side, its normally supposed to be locked in controls with the actuator, not loose)

Diagnosis:
system put the reverse bucket control in manual mode
apparently due system sensitivity for operating voltage, it was on the low Voltage end of the spectrum. (keep your batteries fully charged)

Solution:
Yamaha boat tech had to reset the whole system and re-program my computer to be placed back in auto-mode using their fancy can-bus system controller.

Do you think they actually did that, or did they just charge the battery and reinstall it. I had exactly the same symptoms with a depleted battery (because my boat had crossed wires from the factory that they eventually found) and just charging the battery and restarting solved my issues.

 

[FSH 210 Sport]

FYI….

Another member here had issues with his 2022 255 FSH Sport E‘s reverse buckets… the problem was chased down to loose grounds on the batteries and I’m assuming the main ground on the engine. Once those connections were tightened there were no more problems..

 

[TX_Mercenary]

Do you think they actually did that, or did they just charge the battery and reinstall it. I had exactly the same symptoms with a depleted battery (because my boat had crossed wires from the factory that they eventually found) and just charging the battery and restarting solved my issues.

I witnessed the whole operation because they thought it would be a quick fix. But while they were troubleshooting main mechnic specifically stated our boats are sensitive of the operating voltage and it’s a good idea to try and keep it fully charged

 

[jacoviii]

Well looks like I'm in the same boat. I was checking it out in the drive voltage got down to 11v. I noticed a loose wire in the engine bay. Traced it back to the starboard surf tab. Decided to start the boat it was 50* but dipped to the 32* overnight. I had a couple hard cranks before they would run. But now a check engine light / warning at power up. I unhooked both batteries let it sit overnight. Charged both batteries and hooked them back up. No change. I did notice that when running the buckets and dash are staying in F forward.. So now I get to do a 3hr one way trip to the dealer.

 

[jacoviii]

I wonder if we can clear faults on these 21'+ XD & SD boats with the candoo scaner tool?

 

[Judge]

Reviving an old thread.......

I have a new '22 275SD that I picked up in August from the dealer but haven't been able to get in the water since I picked it up. The dealer had it out on the water doing a shake down cruise and sent me videos of them out on the water. But when I went to pick it up the lake was too low to launch so I brought it home since I saw it on the water and running great in the videos.

Anyway.... I was on a two month RV trip and just got back and I am installing the CobraJet Steering System. The buckets were full up when I started and after installing the CobraJet fins I started the engines. The buckets won't lower from full open when I moved the throttle into reverse. The nozzles also aren't moving when I turn the wheel.

I did notice the battery voltage was down around 11.9V when I powered up but it started ok. I had the battery switches in the disconnect position but the batteries have not been charged in several weeks.

I didn't see and CEL on the display but I have the batteries charging overnight. When I put my charger on the fist battery it said 62% SOC so that was getting on the low side for sure.

I'm hoping low battery voltage is the problem with the reverse buckets and steering not moving...... since the boat has less than an hour on it. Otherwise it will be a 4 hour drive back to the dealer.

I'll take a look at the grounds and battery cables.... wouldn't be the first time I've found loose cables if I stumble on one.

 

[jacoviii]

I had a ton of issues with my 255xd. With the dealers help we found that the boat clears the codes best with multiple key cycles not jut unhooking the batteries. Turn key on let the screen fully boot up. Turn key off, count to 5s. Turn key on let the screen fully boot up. Do this 5 or so times. This lets the system see the steering/ nozzle is no longer blocked.

 

[Judge]

I had a ton of issues with my 255xd. With the dealers help we found that the boat clears the codes best with multiple key cycles not jut unhooking the batteries. Turn key on let the screen fully boot up. Turn key off, count to 5s. Turn key on let the screen fully boot up. Do this 5 or so times. This lets the system see the steering/ nozzle is no longer blocked.

Perfect.... thanks for then tip!

I didn't see any codes on the screen but I am going to cycle the display 5 times before I fire it up again after having the batteries on the charger all night. Then I'll fire it up and try and move the buckets and nozzles.

 

[adrianp89]

There is also a manual procedure incase you get one stuck at the sand bar. Something around opening the box up and manually moving the levers forward with battery disconnected.

 

[Judge]

There is also a manual procedure incase you get one stuck at the sand bar. Something around opening the box up and manually moving the levers forward with battery disconnected.

I have been looking in the Owners Manual about losing the buckets or steering. I've also ordered the Service Manual just to have it so hopefully that comes too and has more troubleshooting steps.

 

[spatty99]

I witnessed the whole operation because they thought it would be a quick fix. But while they were troubleshooting main mechnic specifically stated our boats are sensitive of the operating voltage and it’s a good idea to try and keep it fully charged

FYI, there are industry standards for maintaining proper propulsion and steering control given low (or high) system voltage. It sounds like there are a lot of Yamaha steering issues labeled simply as "sensitive" to voltage that in actuality are not operating in accordance with industry standards.

For example, ABYC P-28 ELECTRIC/ELECTRONIC CONTROL SYSTEMS FOR PROPULSION AND STEERING, states:
"28.10.5.1 The system shall be tested and capable of operation over a voltage range at the power supply terminal from 80 to 120% of system voltage."

 

[adrianp89]

FYI, there are industry standards for maintaining proper propulsion and steering control given low (or high) system voltage. It sounds like there are a lot of Yamaha steering issues labeled simply as "sensitive" to voltage that in actuality are not operating in accordance with industry standards.

For example, ABYC P-28 ELECTRIC/ELECTRONIC CONTROL SYSTEMS FOR PROPULSION AND STEERING, states:
"28.10.5.1 The system shall be tested and capable of operation over a voltage range at the power supply terminal from 80 to 120% of system voltage."

What is defined as system voltage? At 13.6 - low voltage is then 10.87 volts.... which is pretty common.

 

[Judge]

What is defined as system voltage? At 13.6 - low voltage is then 10.87 volts.... which is pretty common.

According to AGM SOC charts, 13.0V is 100%, 12.05V is 50% and 10.8V would be completely dead... of course this assumes no load on the battery.

 

[Judge]

So I have some good news and some bad news......... and an observation.

After charging the batteries last night, I did the 5 Key - On / Off cycles again to try and reset things even though I had no codes. I don't have water hooked up so I'm only doing the 15sec run on both engines.

My nozzles are moving, which is the good news.

I was able to get the buckets to move from full open to TDE.... but I can't get them to fully close in reverse. And if I use throttles or the paddle, I'm not getting a bump up in RPM's when I go deeper into reverse (I was yesterday).

I tried doing the 5 key cycles again but no joy.... buckets won't move lower and no bump in RPM into reverse.

I'm not sure where to go next...... other than the dealer..... but that probably won't happen until spring at this point.

I may hook up the hose and run one of the engines for several minutes so I can try some things. My new concern is the engines not responding to the throttles or left paddle in reverse (I didn't try forward) as well the buckets not fully deploying.


Here is my observation as I've been doing some troubleshooting.....

I have the Starter Battery and House Battery cut-off switches in the off positions and I have the Emergency Parallel switch off as well. In the cluster of switches there is a Digital Sensitive Relay with a red LED that is supposed to be on when second battery charging is occurring. That red LED is on.... even with all switches in the off position.... and my battery charger disconnected?

I'm asking myself how in the hell could that red LED be on off all the switches are off?

I've got a similar device on my motorhome that's called a BIM (Battery Isolation Manager) that measures voltage between the chassis and house batteries and then engages when one bank of batteries drops below 12.6V. Then if the engine is running the alternator charges the house batteries, Or if on shore power, the charger will charge the chassis / starting batteries.

There is one small black wire that runs from the bottom of the Relay and goes to a negative / grounding Busbar.

I went to BEP's website and pulled up the docs for it. Now according to the schematics, it looks like the positive from each battery connects to the relay..... bypassing the battery disconnect switches. That means even when you have the battery disconnect switches off, there is going to be a parastic draw from this relay.... unless you physically pull the cables from the batteries.

I guess that also means if you put a battery charger on one battery, the relay will engage to tie in the other battery for charging, if needed. But there is nothing in the Owners Manual about charging batteries in the boat. There is an optional connection to enable a storage mode tied to the ignition but it looks like Yamaha chose not to use it.

The other curious things is both batteries are now fully charged so I'm not sure why the relay would be engaging to tie them together for charging.

I've got a service manual coming.... hopefully this week..... and hopefully it will provide some insight. It's raining today so this weekend I'm going to pull the boat out of the garage and hook it up to water so I can run it for longer than 15 minutes.

I also think I am going to pull the battery cables just to make sure it removed all power from the boat. I have not lights, blower, bilge pump, etc. but it is worth pulling the cables just to see what happens.

I haven't even had the boat in the water yet..... the dealer took it out for a 30-minute shake down, sent me videos of it and had no issues. The hurricane wiped out the marina where I was taking it to my home in Florida. I think it will be a year until I can get it into the water now so I'm going to have to winterize it and leave it at some property I have in PA.

I'm leaving for Florida in 17 days and the dealer I bought it from is in Rochester, NY. I'm afraid if I try to get it up there next week if they could fit me in, they might not have it fixed before I leave for FL.

If anyone has any ideas, I'm open to suggestions at this point.

 

[spatty99]

What is defined as system voltage? At 13.6 - low voltage is then 10.87 volts.... which is pretty common.

The standards definition is "Nominal System Voltage(s) - commonly used voltages such as 12, 24, and 32 VDC." I don't know how that would be interpreted given different battery chemistries.

 

[Judge]

So an update....... and to the point of a few of you guys have made..... the fly-by-wire stuff is finicky when it comes to voltages the way it looks.

I decided to disconnect the batteries completely. I removed the House battery cable first.... and the red LED of the Relay stayed on!

There is no way that LED should have stayed lit once the House battery was removed from the circuit based on their schematics and the legend for the LED status. When I removed the Starting battery, the red LED finally turned off.

I waited a minute, reconnected both batteries and the red LED did not come back on. It flashed a couple times when I connected the Starting batteries and then went off and stayed off after connecting the House battery.

I then did the 5-key cycles.... fired it up.... and the RPM's bumped up in reverse..... and the buckets moved to fully closed!!!!

I checked the relay and the red LED is lit again. I'm not sure that relay is working properly so I am going to contact BEP support to see what they think.

The other thing is..... I looked on the back of the firewall and there are no cables back there running into that relay. That means there has to be a wire going from each disconnect switch to either side of the relay. Looking at that picture I posted of the switches and relays, I'm starting to think it has to be a pretty thin wire and not that great for carrying current when it connects both batteries for charging from the alternator. I don't think there is any way there is a heavy 6 or 4 gauge wire running from each switch to the relay... but I have have to take it apart to see it to be sure.

The other strange thing is that both batteries should be fully charged now.... but on the display, the House battery is only reading 11V while the starting battery was reading 12.6V. I'm going to have to get my meter out and measure the voltage directly when I have the display on to see how the two readings compared.

This is a little scary that the electronics seem to be this sensitive. I think I have convinced myself to add a battery disconnect on the positive cable at each battery to fully disconnect them from the boat. This will eliminate parasitic draw from the relay but it would also be a way to quickly disconnect the batteries completely if you wanted to make sure you were removing all voltage to reset the system.

I'm going to go out after lunch and the wife fire up the engines, turn the wheel and move the throttles into F and R to make sure the nozzles and buckets are working. Then after I winterize it.... I'm going to disconnect the batteries completely and put battery maintainers on both.

 

[Judge]

Ok.... went out after lunch and had the wife jump into the helm. Fired her up and the nozzles are moving fine and the buckets are moving fine. Looks like charging the batteries, disconnecting the batteries and then doing the 5-cycles of the key got everything back to normal. Although strange there were no codes during any of my troubleshooting.

I sent an e-mail to BEP support and asked them about the relay and when the red LED should be on and if there is parasitic draw even with the batteries disconnected.

I got a fairly quick response but they didn't answer all of my questions. All the guys said was "The Red light will stay on until the Main battery drops below 12.8 V"

Based on how these relays typically work, I would expect that the relay should not tie the two batteries together until one of them drops below a preset voltage and needs charged. I would have expected his response to be it should not come on until the voltage drops below 12.8V.

I pulled up the specs on the relay and took a closer look and this is what it says:

DVSR Operation Explained - Charging: The DVSR is connected between two battery banks. When the DVSR senses a charging voltage (13.4VDC or 26.8VDC) on either of the banks, it automatically activates and joins the two battery banks after a short delay (5 seconds), so they are charged as one battery bank.

Isolation: When the DVSR senses that batteries are not being charged (voltage drops to 12.8V DC or 25.6V DC) the DVSR deactivates following a 20 second delay, separating the combined battery banks into two isolated banks.

Optional Storage Mode: This can be used where the boat/vehicle is stored for long periods without any battery charging, but with the batteries still connected. Power consumption is zero when this is activated. Alternatively, the storage mode can be wired via the ignition switch, so the DVSR can only operate when the engine is running. This provides optimal protection of electronics from electrical spikes, zero power consumption when ignition is off, and acts like a single sensing VSR as DVSR will only activate when engine alternator is charging.


Unfortunately, Yamaha did not choose to activate the Optional Storage Mode. That means even with the disconnect switches Off, there is going to be battery drain... at least until the starting battery voltage drops below 12.8V.... but that means almost a 10% drop in SOC from being fully charged.

I just ordered two battery disconnect switches and cables. I am going to put a disconnect switch on each positive post so I can truly isolate the batteries from any drain.

My boat sat for two months in the garage with the disconnects off and the batteries were down to ~60% SOC. I have had AGM's batteries sit in my garage for 6 months disconnected and had them go down to only 90% SOC so I have to think the DVSR helped drain them down.

 

[DaveShip55]

With all this being said, and obviously voltage is going to be an issue for the lifetime of our boats (I also have a 22 255XD)…. Any suggestions on a quality battery to replace the stock ones when the time come …. Which I predict will be sooner than later…. LoL!….
Unfortunately my boat is stored at the lake I frequent (Lake Havasu), about 4 hours away. It could be sitting for weeks or months in the winter, without being used…. And really no way to keep the batteries on a ‘tender’. Sounds like I better be prepared to bring a battery charger with me when I go out?….
Also sounds like I should install a positive disconnect on both batteries. Seeing as how I also noticed last time I shut the boat down, that there was that red light on….. sounds like that light will always be slowly draining the batteries?
Thanks for all your info concerning this!!!!!

 

[lwrig20]

I am new to this forum, but I have a new 2022 255 FSH E since July. I have had now two events that have locked the starboard side reverse bucket getting locked in the down position. The first time I could not clear the lock, mostly for lack of knowledge (or a manual) on how this system even works. I brought it to the dealer and basically they said they charged the batteries and cycled power to clear the issue. The first time it happened it was when launching the boat and reversing that I got the warning on the screen and could not clear it. The boat has over 50 hours on it already and it is used for many hours of offshore fishing on a weekly basis. I do not think that the Battery can be drained by the DVSR sensor in that short of a period (one week). Any thoughts? I am ready to sell this boat if this keeps happening.