Coronavirus

[tabbibus]

yeah, was a madhouse. It’s the new norm. Have it all ready for you in AM. Lol

Wowza. You weren’t kidding. ICU today is on diversion for the morning. Good times!

 

[Rockfords Fosgate]

Update in the vaccine race.
U.S. agrees to pay Pfizer and BioNTech $2 billion for 100 million doses of coronavirus vaccine

1. The United States will pay $1.95 billion for Pfizer to produce and deliver 100 million doses of its Covid-19 vaccine candidate in the U.S. if it proves safe and effective in humans, the government announced Wednesday.
2. Under the agreement, the U.S. can acquire an additional 500 million doses of drug, the Department of Health and Human Services added.
3. BioNTech and U.S.-based Pfizer are jointly developing their potential vaccine.
4. The vaccine would be made available to Americans “at no cost,” HHS said.
5. The companies previously said they expect to begin a large trial with up to 30,000 participants later this month, if they receive regulatory approval.

From a Fox article on same topic
Earlier this week, a study (which has yet to be peer-reviewed) from both companies pointed out that the vaccine demonstrated it was safe and produced an immune response in patients, while also showing a high-level of T-cell responses against the novel coronavirus. Data were collected from 60 healthy patients in a trial that took place in Germany, according to a company statement.

 

[Rockfords Fosgate]

PSA Warning on hand sanitizers.

1. Not all of them are made the same.
2. 47 have been recalled for methanol, which can make you very sick and perhaps kill.

If you recently bought the 55 or 275 gallon drum of Optimus you might want to toss it.

 

[diveDave]

PSA Warning on hand sanitizers.

1. Not all of them are made the same.
2. 47 have been recalled for methanol, which can make you very sick and perhaps kill.

If you recently bought the 55 or 275 gallon drum of Optimus you might want to toss it.

"Methanol exposure through the skin or by ingestion can result in nausea, vomiting, headache, blurred vision, permanent blindness, seizures, coma, permanent damage to the nervous system or death."
Awesome
Well, thanks for sharing! I didn't even think about how hand sanitizers can be so dangerous.

 

[Ronnie]

How many forum members have bought a 55 to 275 gallon drum of hand sanitizer or anything? How many of these members are willing to toss it? Maybe I’m not taking this precaution seriously enough, we just have small bottles of hand sanitizer all over the house and in each vehicle. I e never seen a drum of the stuff in a consumer or commercial setting. 275 gallon drum ! You need a fork lift to move it and a big truck to transport it. I don’t know where I would store anything like that.

 

[GTBRMC]

How many forum members have bought a 55 to 275 gallon drum of hand sanitizer or anything? How many of these members are willing to toss it? Maybe I’m not taking this precaution seriously enough, we just have small bottles of hand sanitizer all over the house and in each vehicle. I e never seen a drum of the stuff in a consumer or commercial setting. 275 gallon drum ! You need a fork lift to move it and a big truck to transport it. I don’t know where I would store anything like that.

Nobody would need such quantities for home use, of course. I work in manufacturing and have run plants with up to 1200 people on site. Operations on that scale are likely buying it by the 55 gallon drum (or possibly in a 275 gallon container - often referred to as a "tote.") Lubricants, metal working fluids aka "coolant," etc., are routinely bought in these quantities for many industrial operations.

 

[Rockfords Fosgate]

I shared that 55/275 gallon part of the article as a joke for some levity. In reality, these products are being sold in household sized disposable containers.

However, I have been seeing places refill their hand dispensers with different products. Some places have hand dispensers without any labeling at all.

I have stopped using anything that is not my own. I have enough problems and don't need to tack on methanol poisoning to the list.

 

[Rockfords Fosgate]

BTW: the recall list is over 80 now. link

And don't think just because you bought the product from Wal-Mart, Costco, or Target you are safe. All of these stores carried the methanol-containing hand sanitizers.

 

[Beachbummer]

2 Men can move a 55 gallon drum as seen on Breaking Bad. In theory it can even be rolled in a straight line single handed.

I have such a 55 gallon drum filled with Nutella that was opened in 1978. It's almost half way down.


(Just kidding, but we did run through a 25lb flower bag a few days ago. It lasted about 6 weeks)

 

[BigN8]

Interesting article.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/08/02/covid-vaccine/

 

[Scottintexas]

I have such a 55 gallon drum filled with Nutella that was opened in 1978. It's almost half way down.

I had to read that line three times in disbelief, "where is this guy from, what type of life is he living and what am I missing here ??"

 

[tabbibus]

so there is this tiktok meme (yeah, I've been sucked into that rabbit hole) that has a super catchy song. Something like la la la CORONAVIRUS la la la.

I can't get it out of my head.

 

[GTBRMC]

so there is this tiktok meme (yeah, I've been sucked into that rabbit hole) that has a super catchy song. Something like la la la CORONAVIRUS la la la.

I can't get it out of my head.

Thank you for not linking that.

 

[Rockfords Fosgate]

ZING!

****************
Yale epidemiology professor Dr. Harvey Risch and CNN host John Berman bickered over hydroxychloroquine on Monday during a heated discussion about the polarizing drug, which the president has hailed as a possible treatment for COVID-19.

Risch recently wrote an op-ed in support of hydroxychloroquine, but Dr. Anthony Fauci, Dr. Deborah Birx and other experts have dismissed the anti-malarial drug being used to combat coronavirus. Risch cited various studies that backed up his pro-hydroxychloroquine stance, but the host of CNN's "New Day" disagreed.

“None of those studies that you just cited are random placebo-controlled trials, what Dr. Fauci refers to as the gold standard,” Berman said, as the CNN on-screen chyron stated “Growing body of evidence shows hydroxychloroquine is ineffective.”

Risch responded: “That’s not actually correct. The problem with those randomized controlled trials, is they were trials done on the wrong people. They were trials done on low-risk people with low risks of hospitalization and mortality. You don’t do a study of prostate cancer with women... because nobody is gonna get the outcome.”

Risch said the studies were conducted on “very low-risk people who are not going to get hospitalized or die” from coronavirus.
****************

 

[Julian]

ZING!

****************
Yale epidemiology professor Dr. Harvey Risch and CNN host John Berman bickered over hydroxychloroquine on Monday during a heated discussion about the polarizing drug, which the president has hailed as a possible treatment for COVID-19.

Risch recently wrote an op-ed in support of hydroxychloroquine, but Dr. Anthony Fauci, Dr. Deborah Birx and other experts have dismissed the anti-malarial drug being used to combat coronavirus. Risch cited various studies that backed up his pro-hydroxychloroquine stance, but the host of CNN's "New Day" disagreed.

“None of those studies that you just cited are random placebo-controlled trials, what Dr. Fauci refers to as the gold standard,” Berman said, as the CNN on-screen chyron stated “Growing body of evidence shows hydroxychloroquine is ineffective.”

Risch responded: “That’s not actually correct. The problem with those randomized controlled trials, is they were trials done on the wrong people. They were trials done on low-risk people with low risks of hospitalization and mortality. You don’t do a study of prostate cancer with women... because nobody is gonna get the outcome.”

Risch said the studies were conducted on “very low-risk people who are not going to get hospitalized or die” from coronavirus.
****************

What Risch said is simply not true - studies have been done on hospitalized covid patients with symptoms (why would he lie about something so simple to prove wrong)....

That said, there is ONE study from Henry Ford Hospital in Michigan that DID show a positive effect. The below article covers both points (studies that showed no effect with sick patients and the Henry Ford study). Regarding the Henry Ford study:

their results may differ from those of studies that didn’t show a benefit because the Henry Ford patients got treatment earlier (91 percent got the drug within 48 hours of being admitted to the hospital) and because a treatment algorithm the doctors used didn’t allow anyone with cardiac risk factors to take the drug​

Hydroxychloroquine can’t stop COVID-19. It’s time to move on, scientists say

Hydroxychloroquine doesn’t work as antiviral or a treatment for COVID-19, an abundance of scientific data suggest.

www.sciencenews.org

 

[Rockfords Fosgate]

I am inclined to think he is not lying.

He is saying that we are studying the wrong people, and offering an authoritative opinion (A professor of epidemiology at Yale School of Public Health and author of 300 peer reviewed studies) which happens to be contrarian to much of the scientific dogma currently in play.

Rather than having echo-chambers with stifled dissent, we need more physicians and researchers probing all (and sometimes uncomfortable) angles. That is where true learning and advancements take place.

My own axioms

1. Science is never settled.
2. We are not as smart as we think we are.

 

[Julian]

The problem with those randomized controlled trials, is they were trials done on the wrong people. They were trials done on low-risk people with low risks of hospitalization and mortality.

If this is indeed his direct quote then he's lying or sorely misinformed. Those randomized controlled studies have been done on Covid + hospitalized patients with symptoms. The prostate cancer study on women analogy is absolute hogwash, and misinformation of the worst kind.

But I agree with you - we don't want to stifle dissent. But we should call out BS when its said.

I read an article on Hydroxychloroquine a while ago that talked about where/why it even came up - the reason it came up was because people who were taking the drug were dying at a much lower rate than those not taking it. It was coming out of tropical countries where Malaria is an issue (that is the drugs primary purpose-an anti malarial).

This is where correlation vs. evidence based trials are important. The paragraph above seems pretty clear...people taking it died less. UNTIL you realize that the people who weren't taking Hydroxychloroquine weren't taking it because their doctors didn't prescribe it because they had underlying heart conditions that were contra indicators to using Hydroxychloroquine. So OF COURSE those patients were dying at a faster rate than those taking it.....we know that those with heart and lung issues are the MOST susceptible to death from Covid.

From what I've read, things like remdesiver are working far better than Hydroxychloroquine at treating symptomatic patients. Scientists chase after all these threads and Hydroxychloroquine has had quite a bit of research done on it, and more will come. But I'm not optimistic based on the studies thus far that its going to be very helpful....but time will tell.

 

[ripler]

No need to worry North Korea had only one case and they already have a vaccine, my bet their cure is a 9mm pill.

 

[tabbibus]

What Risch said is simply not true - studies have been done on hospitalized covid patients with symptoms (why would he lie about something so simple to prove wrong)....

That said, there is ONE study from Henry Ford Hospital in Michigan that DID show a positive effect. The below article covers both points (studies that showed no effect with sick patients and the Henry Ford study). Regarding the Henry Ford study:

their results may differ from those of studies that didn’t show a benefit because the Henry Ford patients got treatment earlier (91 percent got the drug within 48 hours of being admitted to the hospital) and because a treatment algorithm the doctors used didn’t allow anyone with cardiac risk factors to take the drug​

Hydroxychloroquine can’t stop COVID-19. It’s time to move on, scientists say

Hydroxychloroquine doesn’t work as antiviral or a treatment for COVID-19, an abundance of scientific data suggest.

www.sciencenews.org

Julian the biggest issue I have with the henry ford study is that the HCQ arm also got lots of steroids. Which we now already know helps. So it is a big confounding factor in that study.

 

[Rockfords Fosgate]

Here is a HCQ study tracking site. link

1. Broken down by: Pre / Post / Early / Late / All
2. 40 of 60 were peer reviewed