Towing with Tesla Model X

[2kwik4u]

I watched this again yesterday. It's worth another watch if you're interesting in the Model X Towing. Not sure it's been in this thread before or not.

A few key points for me:

• They don't touch the brakes on the way down. It's all regen all the way. This HAS to be good for towing equipment maintenance schedules, but has me a little concerned about the brakes on the trailer never getting used, and as such leading to a "tail push" condition that I'm not sure the stability control is ready for (just needs tested to confirm it can or can't handle it).
• One of the fastest times they've seen going UP the hill. He comments that they made it "under 8min", which is pretty impressive.
• I'm curious how something less aero than a V-Nose horse trailer would fair.....like say an AR210 (should be just at or below the limit on the Model X, 242's are over)
• I'm not super convinced about the hitch attachment. I'm sure it's tested, and proven, just looks a little sketchy from my seat. Probably no big deal, and just hard to get a feel for it through video only.
• I need to research the Model X Dimensions to see how it compares to other SUV's. Is it more Q7 sized, or more Tahoe sized? They mention a little "tail wagging the dog" happening at one point. I suspect this has nothing to do with driveline choice, and everything to do with stature of the tow vehicle.

 

[Adrian @ JB Solutions]

Well I just put in the order for a Model 3 Long-Range. Wife liked it, cost savings was not really there, but with her doing a lot of driving in the new job a significantly safer car was important, and she had been talking about getting a faster car anyways, so this fit the bill. We were teetering with keeping her current car but we needed to get a new set of tires and an extended warranty, so we decided to take the plunge. The car doesn't check every box, but I feel my complaints are pretty popular along the Tesla owners, hopefully one day competition forces them to offer more. These include lack of cooled seats, Apple CarPlay, SiriusXM, sunroof, and all black headliner.

 

[2kwik4u]

lack of ......... sunroof......

That kills it for me right there......I've had a sunroof for the last 20 years. I absolutely love it. Stays open like 80-90% of my drive time even in the winter.

This is VERY perplexing from a company that has "high end" cars. If they want to be compared with an Audi/BMW then they need those features IMO. This is why they are compared to base sedans.

 

[Adrian @ JB Solutions]

That kills it for me right there......I've had a sunroof for the last 20 years. I absolutely love it. Stays open like 80-90% of my drive time even in the winter.

This is VERY perplexing from a company that has "high end" cars. If they want to be compared with an Audi/BMW then they need those features IMO. This is why they are compared to base sedans.

Agreed on perplexing. Luckily for us we only have a few months of the year at best to realistically use one comfortably. Most of the time it is too hot. The entire glass roof was a decent enough compromise for us.

 

[mattbaker]

Amazing Car! Everything will be fine for that distance!

 

[2kwik4u]

Agreed on perplexing. Luckily for us we only have a few months of the year at best to realistically use one comfortably. Most of the time it is too hot. The entire glass roof was a decent enough compromise for us.

Fair enough. I only have a few months where mine is closed. usually Jan-Feb, and then Jul-Aug. Even those are hit and miss during peak hours of the day of cold/hot.

The 5 windows and sunroof on the truck are about the right compromise of "convertible" and "cage" or me.

 

[Julian]

Exactly.

But to his point - Fossil Fuels already make up well over half of our electricity sources - so whoever controls it in the future, are the same people that control it today.

If course the current companies producing power will be forced into renewables....otherwise they go out of business.

These include lack of cooled seats, Apple CarPlay, SiriusXM,

All three of those would be a deal breaker for me. Don't use my sunroof much at all, but love cooled seats, Android Auto and XM!

 

[Mainah]

I watched this again yesterday. It's worth another watch if you're interesting in the Model X Towing. Not sure it's been in this thread before or not.

A few key points for me:

• They don't touch the brakes on the way down. It's all regen all the way. This HAS to be good for towing equipment maintenance schedules, but has me a little concerned about the brakes on the trailer never getting used, and as such leading to a "tail push" condition that I'm not sure the stability control is ready for (just needs tested to confirm it can or can't handle it).
• One of the fastest times they've seen going UP the hill. He comments that they made it "under 8min", which is pretty impressive.
• I'm curious how something less aero than a V-Nose horse trailer would fair.....like say an AR210 (should be just at or below the limit on the Model X, 242's are over)
• I'm not super convinced about the hitch attachment. I'm sure it's tested, and proven, just looks a little sketchy from my seat. Probably no big deal, and just hard to get a feel for it through video only.
• I need to research the Model X Dimensions to see how it compares to other SUV's. Is it more Q7 sized, or more Tahoe sized? They mention a little "tail wagging the dog" happening at one point. I suspect this has nothing to do with driveline choice, and everything to do with stature of the tow vehicle.

Thanks for posting this video. It is worth a watch for anyone holding out for a EV truck for towing. Plenty of power but range suffers very badly towing uphill. Granted this test was extreme. Having to press the accelerator going on a steep downhill due to the regen was interesting and something to be very aware of on extreme hills with significant pitch/roll to the road. Wonder how a trailer tongue braking system would affect this real world and not just theory.

Certainly makes since why the Tesla semi needs a battery approaching a full megawatt. For reference my house used 2.5 megawatts at its peak one month usage this summer and its lowest usage was 1.1 megawatts last November. So I could power my whole house for a whole month on about 3 fully charged tesla semi batteries. The grid demand once EV for towing becomes higher in volume is going to be very high. Diesel will be around for quite a while.

 

[Liveto99]

Most solar panels and battery’s get converted to 120 volts and that charges cars at 8 miles an hour. As per info I think I remember from this thread.

 

[Adrian @ JB Solutions]

If course the current companies producing power will be forced into renewables....otherwise they go out of business.

All three of those would be a deal breaker for me. Don't use my sunroof much at all, but love cooled seats, Android Auto and XM!

Can't argue any of that - we discussed it heavily. I can put XM in the car pretty easily if she decides to retain it, we will give the Slacker radio a try first though. Sounds to be pretty decent. I don't need CarPlay - but full Siri integration would be huge.

 

[Dean P]

Can't argue any of that - we discussed it heavily. I can put XM in the car pretty easily if she decides to retain it, we will give the Slacker radio a try first though. Sounds to be pretty decent. I don't need CarPlay - but full Siri integration would be huge.

You now have Spotify as well. Slacker really slacks. I think the rest is coming (thru an update of course).

 

[2kwik4u]

Wonder how a trailer tongue braking system would affect this real world and not just theory

I'm going to email the TFLTruck guys and see if they'll do a test with a surge brake equipped trailer.

My head tells me something like a "lift throttle oversteer" condition will happen in a hurry. SVT Contours did this REALLY bad, as do and Rear Engine Porsche. Get too hot into a corner, lift throttle, and all of the sudden the back end is coming around on you. The question is if the surge brakes would help or hurt this, how the regen braking plays in, and also how the stability control handles the whole situation. Just like any other towing situation, it's not the going part that is hard. It's the stopping and turning part!

 

[Julian]

I'm going to email the TFLTruck guys and see if they'll do a test with a surge brake equipped trailer.

My head tells me something like a "lift throttle oversteer" condition will happen in a hurry. SVT Contours did this REALLY bad, as do and Rear Engine Porsche. Get too hot into a corner, lift throttle, and all of the sudden the back end is coming around on you. The question is if the surge brakes would help or hurt this, how the regen braking plays in, and also how the stability control handles the whole situation. Just like any other towing situation, it's not the going part that is hard. It's the stopping and turning part!

I was under the impression from the video that the Telsa had to have the electronic brake controller over 1500lbs.....so not sure it "supports" surge brakes at higher weights?

I did find it strange that they didn't want to unhook the trailer to charge....its really not hard.

My wife drives my car and has rented a few lately and really like Apple Car play.....asked for a new car yesterday with it! And she is NOT a car person!

 

[2kwik4u]

I was under the impression from the video that the Telsa had to have the electronic brake controller over 1500lbs.....so not sure it "supports" surge brakes at higher weights?

I did find it strange that they didn't want to unhook the trailer to charge....its really not hard.

My wife drives my car and has rented a few lately and really like Apple Car play.....asked for a new car yesterday with it! And she is NOT a car person!

Page 87 here says:

Tesla recommends a separate braking system on trailers with a loaded weight of over 1000 lbs (450 kg). The braking system must be appropriate for the weight of the trailer. Follow the instructions provided by the trailer brake manufacturer to ensure that trailer brakes are properly installed, adjusted, and maintained.

Page 89 goes on to say the same thing, and then tells you how to install an electric brake controller.

Not really 100% clear what they require there.

I agree, not that hard to drop the trailer to charge. Kind of a nuisance, but that's about it. Nobody is going to steal your horse trailer while you're charging. Just put a lock on it, and it'll be fine for a short period of time.

 

[Dean P]

I did find it strange that they didn't want to unhook the trailer to charge....its really not hard.

I agree, not that hard to drop the trailer to charge. Kind of a nuisance, but that's about it. Nobody is going to steal your horse trailer while you're charging. Just put a lock on it, and it'll be fine for a short period of time.

There are some super chargers where you pull in to charge. You cannot drive thru; you would have to back out. Just saying...but most you must back into.

 

[Tyguy]

Regarding the concern about regen negating the trailer brakes being used, you can turn that feature on and off easily in the Tesla menu system. A Tesla can freewheel like a traditional automatic, or regen like you saw in the video. You can also turn on a feature to have it mimic an automatic at a stop light where it creeps forward when you release the brake, or turn that off so it's more like a manual transmission.

Tesla uses their own streaming service which works great for me, but maybe not for others who already have a preferred service.

 

[robert843]

Some older Model S's have a sunroof they got rid of them in favor of the all glass roof. My wife's Model X has heated and cooled so it can be had in some models. Apple car play from what I understand will never be available but honestly the systems in the tesla preform vary similar.

 

[grywlfbg]

Wow, work gets crazy for a few weeks and I come back to this!

Hi everyone, my name's Chris and I've been a Tesla Owner for 9 years (I'm @strider over on TMC). Roadster owner, Wife had an original P85 Model S, we upgraded her to a 100D Model S in December. We also have a Diesel Jeep Grand Cherokee. I'm interested to see the Tesla Pickup, Rivian, and the F-150 to see if we can get rid of the Jeep. We desperately need more competition in the EV space. It will make everyone's products better.

I think @thefortunes was laying it on a little thick with @Liftr. The whole reason there are different car companies and different models of cars are because people's needs and wants are different. Things I care about others don't and things others care about I don't. Trying to force fit a certain vehicle on someone (regardless of the propulsion method) is just rude. I think that whole exchange became more about being "right" than about answering a question or solving a problem. Sadly that is quite common on internet forums. I have been guilty of it myself a time or two.

A few other thoughts I had in reading the last 12 pages....

When it comes to future repair costs, ALL cars are going hyper electronic, hyper connected, etc. There are just as many computers in an ICE vehicle as a Tesla. Instrument clusters are becoming screens in all cars. Same goes for high repair costs due to increased use of aluminum panels. Same also for the tracking that is being done by Apple, Google, all car manufacturers, government, insurance companies, etc. None of this is unique to Teslas or EVs. Also, for those of you that like the sound of your engine, all the manufacturers are making engine noises via the vehicle's stereo now. There are apps you can put on your phone to do the same thing....

For me, it came down to the driving experience. I sold my 6-speed manual C6 Vette for my Roadster. The feeling was like driving my Vette around in 2nd gear all the time (but without the insane noise, vibration, and engine wear). With 100% of torque available at all times the car just seems telepathic. There is nothing in the ICE world that can respond like that because in an ICE you have to wait for the downshift(s). I've made it my mission to get rid of transmissions in all my things. I ride an electric dirtbike, kid's and wife's dirtbikes and 4-wheelers are electric, zero-turn mower is electric.... Tractor is diesel but has a hydrostatic transmission.

Battery costs still need to come down a lot before they are cost competitive with a small ICE. In a luxury model the battery costs are more easily hidden. Someone made the analogy to the horse to ICE transition. The first ICE cars were horrible, gas was hard to find, they were crazy expensive, etc. But over time they improved and here we are. EVs are still fairly new. Tesla has only been building cars for 10 years. They've come a long way in that time and as other manufacturers join in the pace will only improve.

Sorry this is getting long, but I say the more choice the better. Everyone should be able to find the best vehicle for them.

Expecting our first freeze on Tuesday. Now where's that winterizing thread?

 

[haknslash]

 

[MattFX4]

Wow, work gets crazy for a few weeks and I come back to this!

Hi everyone, my name's Chris and I've been a Tesla Owner for 9 years (I'm @strider over on TMC). Roadster owner, Wife had an original P85 Model S, we upgraded her to a 100D Model S in December. We also have a Diesel Jeep Grand Cherokee. I'm interested to see the Tesla Pickup, Rivian, and the F-150 to see if we can get rid of the Jeep. We desperately need more competition in the EV space. It will make everyone's products better.

I think @thefortunes was laying it on a little thick with @Liftr. The whole reason there are different car companies and different models of cars are because people's needs and wants are different. Things I care about others don't and things others care about I don't. Trying to force fit a certain vehicle on someone (regardless of the propulsion method) is just rude. I think that whole exchange became more about being "right" than about answering a question or solving a problem. Sadly that is quite common on internet forums. I have been guilty of it myself a time or two.

A few other thoughts I had in reading the last 12 pages....

When it comes to future repair costs, ALL cars are going hyper electronic, hyper connected, etc. There are just as many computers in an ICE vehicle as a Tesla. Instrument clusters are becoming screens in all cars. Same goes for high repair costs due to increased use of aluminum panels. Same also for the tracking that is being done by Apple, Google, all car manufacturers, government, insurance companies, etc. None of this is unique to Teslas or EVs. Also, for those of you that like the sound of your engine, all the manufacturers are making engine noises via the vehicle's stereo now. There are apps you can put on your phone to do the same thing....

For me, it came down to the driving experience. I sold my 6-speed manual C6 Vette for my Roadster. The feeling was like driving my Vette around in 2nd gear all the time (but without the insane noise, vibration, and engine wear). With 100% of torque available at all times the car just seems telepathic. There is nothing in the ICE world that can respond like that because in an ICE you have to wait for the downshift(s). I've made it my mission to get rid of transmissions in all my things. I ride an electric dirtbike, kid's and wife's dirtbikes and 4-wheelers are electric, zero-turn mower is electric.... Tractor is diesel but has a hydrostatic transmission.

Battery costs still need to come down a lot before they are cost competitive with a small ICE. In a luxury model the battery costs are more easily hidden. Someone made the analogy to the horse to ICE transition. The first ICE cars were horrible, gas was hard to find, they were crazy expensive, etc. But over time they improved and here we are. EVs are still fairly new. Tesla has only been building cars for 10 years. They've come a long way in that time and as other manufacturers join in the pace will only improve.

Sorry this is getting long, but I say the more choice the better. Everyone should be able to find the best vehicle for them.

Expecting our first freeze on Tuesday. Now where's that winterizing thread?

I have an electric golf cart and it’s awesome. It’s modded with a high performance motor and speed controller. I can control it with my computer, and have it set to where it will run about 35 mph right now. It gets there quick too! The torque in electric motors is insane. Depending on launch settings it will pop the front wheels off the ground.