2016 240 Ballast Setup Question: Valves?

[swatski]

I'm also trying to decide the size of the ski locker bag. That locker is ginormous, over 90" length, and goes all the way to the bow anchor locker box:

I figure there is not such thing as too much ballast, right?

This is my front runner right now (1180 lbs)
https://www.wakemakers.com/fly-high-gravity-games-center-sac.html


Still debating between that^^^ one and a Sumo 800lbs
https://www.wakemakers.com/straight-line-sumo-max-800-long-ballast-bag.html


--

 

[COtoFLsurf]

@swatski @Mainah, kind of curious, you both mention using large ballast in the ski locker, but also acknowledge that the rear compartments have pretty limited space. The comment "... no such thing as too much ballast", I agree to an extent since you do not need to completely fill if you don't need it, but have you tested the surf/wakeboard wake on your boats with the ballast setups you are designing? If you have an 800#-1100# sack in the ski locker and a 400#-800# sac in the surf-side rear compartment, not sure that is going to produce a great surf wake. For me, I ended up with surf ballast in back corner of the surf side, and for wakeboarding have stuck with the traditional recommendation of 60:40 (back:front) weight distribution.

@swatski , I have not automated my ballast yet, but planning to keep it super simple with reversible impeller pumps that fill/drain from the same thru-hull (just like your first diagram). I may not even use vents, and instead just keep an eye on them when filling. As others have said, the electric valve is not needed, and if you install a check valve in the vent line then the impeller pumps will suck the bags down tight.

 

[swatski]

@swatski , I have not automated my ballast yet, but planning to keep it super simple with reversible impeller pumps that fill/drain from the same thru-hull (just like your first diagram). I may not even use vents, and instead just keep an eye on them when filling. As others have said, the electric valve is not needed, and if you install a check valve in the vent line then the impeller pumps will suck the bags down tight.

That is my plan exactly! No valves, no vents, one intake and one pump per bag/compartment.
If warranted, I am open to adding vents later.

The comment "... no such thing as too much ballast", I agree to an extent since you do not need to completely fill if you don't need it, but have you tested the surf/wakeboard wake on your boats with the ballast setups you are designing?

That is the reason I brought this up. I have done some testing with up to about 1,800 of over the deck/seats bags and was not impressed. I would think he boat can take at least twice that amount (I ran 1,800 lbs of ballast in my 190 and she did fine). I hate those bags sitting in plain sight but consider those an unavoidable reality. But I do want to use all hidden compartments I can.
I think @jcyamaharider and @KXCam22 both load ski lockers and extra bags up front, and then equalize with the swim deck. I plan on an aux pump/intake dedicated for the swim deck bags.
I know the jet intakes need to be in the water... And unfortunately I need my wake to have a very deep pocket (to ever go ropeless), too.

Thank you for sharing your experience, it's been super useful!

--

 

[Mainah]

This past summer I experimented by directly filling the ski locker with water with a submersible 3700gph pump and sump hose (insanely fast) to about 3/4 full with about 550 lbs of people ballast and got a pretty darn good wakeboarding wake at 70 feet back for a jetboat. I found that it takes a lot of ski locker weight to extend the length of the wake and enough weight in the rear to amplify the height of the wake for wakeboarding. Never heard the 60:40 rule but I know it is better to extend the wake than to shorten the line when you are trying to get air. I am personally going to go with that 1180lb bag when I get around to this.

We still had snow on the ground before this latest blizzard so I am hoping that I will have semi firm grass by the end of April to get the boat out of the back yard.

 

[COtoFLsurf]

@Mainah , good info on the wakeboarding wake, I am definitely going to experiment with more weight upfront for boarding. Surfing is my first love, but give me a buttery bay and we are on the wakeboards until we cannot hold on anymore.

 

[COtoFLsurf]

@swatski, FWIW I am considering tapping into the scupper line instead of adding new thru-hull fittings. Something like the attached sketch (might even mount my pumps under the wet storage hatch). Scupper is at least a 1.5" line and outlet is under waterline on my boat, just close the ball valve when filling/draining and open the valve all other times. The day I forget to open the valve will certainly be the day I take a big wave over the front, but will then simply open the engine hatch and open the valve so water can flow out thru the scupper.

 

[Mainah]

@swatski, FWIW I am considering tapping into the scupper line instead of adding new thru-hull fittings. Something like the attached sketch (might even mount my pumps under the wet storage hatch). Scupper is at least a 1.5" line and outlet is under waterline on my boat, just close the ball valve when filling/draining and open the valve all other times. The day I forget to open the valve will certainly be the day I take a big wave over the front, but will then simply open the engine hatch and open the valve so water can flow out thru the scupper.

Interesting idea. Are you sure the entire scupper opening is submerged 100% of the time when just floating and bobbing? Any break in the vacuum will certainly impact pump performance. I also assume that means you will remove the scupper flap on the hull. I think removing that flap and adding the valve invites unnecessary risk in that you could drown your engines just by washing the boat or with a rain storm if you forget to open the valve, leave the plug in, and for some reason your bilge pump/pumps don't work (I know lots of ifs but throwing it out there). Not trying to be a negative nancy but rather just provide honest feedback. IMO @swatski idea of using the bottom of that boxy area makes sense. The opening should always be fully submerged on the bottom of that box when floating and there will be a slight negative pressure when on plane to assist with draining. @Julian where is the ballast through hull on the 242X?

 

[COtoFLsurf]

@Mainah not 100% sure, but "pretty" sure, and if we are bobbing around a bunch then we are probably heading to the sandbar! ;-) Yes, I would remove scupper flap. I have never had a self-bailing boat before, so that is still a "hey, cool !!!" feature; think I could get comfortable with the potential risks, and checking the valve would have to become part of our checklist (and if we are washing the boat and the water is not draining, that would be clue #1 ...). (Edit: removed check valve comment, prob bad idea). A dedicated fitting is better, no doubt, but my boat is on a lift so no fun doing these projects from the Super Mable. Still debating ...

 

[Mainah]

I think I read about you doing mods while balancing on the Super Mable tube before but now envisioning you using a drill while floating on super mable sounds like a circus worthy feat. Put too much lateral force on a tool and Mable is likely to fly out from under you. Much respect for the balancing act you had to pull off with the flap mod now that I think about it but I will still complain about the snow keeping me from using my boat while you enjoy yours. Plus you have that awesome lift so while you have my respect for the balancing act my pity only goes so far . I can't say much either though as mine will have a new dry stack home down south in just a few months. Downside is I am already paying for it to make sure it will be there for me come June.

 

[jcyamaharider]

That is my plan exactly! No valves, no vents, one intake and one pump per bag/compartment.
If warranted, I am open to adding vents later.


That is the reason I brought this up. I have done some testing with up to about 1,800 of over the deck/seats bags and was not impressed. I would think he boat can take at least twice that amount (I ran 1,800 lbs of ballast in my 190 and she did fine). I hate those bags sitting in plain sight but consider those an unavoidable reality. But I do want to use all hidden compartments I can.
I think @jcyamaharider and @KXCam22 both load ski lockers and extra bags up front, and then equalize with the swim deck. I plan on an aux pump/intake dedicated for the swim deck bags.
I know the jet intakes need to be in the water... And unfortunately I need my wake to have a very deep pocket (to ever go ropeless), too.

Thank you for sharing your experience, it's been super useful!

--

I only have on bag visible, 750 on the port seat, none on the swim deck. My setup is as follows. 800 in the ski locker with a sumo sac, that same 1180 gravity bag under my port seat along with 3 batteries, 750 on top of the port seat, and 400 under my starboard cabin seat.

 

[swatski]

@swatski, FWIW I am considering tapping into the scupper line instead of adding new thru-hull fittings. Something like the attached sketch (might even mount my pumps under the wet storage hatch). Scupper is at least a 1.5" line and outlet is under waterline on my boat, just close the ball valve when filling/draining and open the valve all other times. The day I forget to open the valve will certainly be the day I take a big wave over the front, but will then simply open the engine hatch and open the valve so water can flow out thru the scupper.

@COtoFLsurf That is an interesting idea, indeed. I did not even consider that, mostly because whenever I look at any of the OEM through hull fittings I get upset - they so so bad. That scupper fitting has been an Achilles's heel in older boats as it was sitting lower - literally causing boats to to swamp when it failed, and it has been a "must do" mod in all 230 I believe. So - I am not touching that orifice, and if you want to use that through hull, I would probably change it to SS, that factory plastic is $hit.

--

 

[swatski]

I only have on bag visible, 750 on the port seat, none on the swim deck. My setup is as follows. 800 in the ski locker with a sumo sac, that same 1180 gravity bag under my port seat along with 3 batteries, 750 on top of the port seat, and 400 under my starboard cabin seat.

Well, don't sell your boat, would be my advice . The rear under-seat compartments in the 2015+ are severely restricted! I love all the soundproofing, so I'm not really complaining, but I had at least twice the space for bags back there in my 2012 190!

--

 

[swatski]

I am personally going to go with that 1180lb bag when I get around to this.

My only concern with this bag is, I hear A LOT of complains about Fly High bags fittings leaking...
@jcyamaharider do you have an opinion, as you run both Sumo (Strait Line) and FLy High?

--

 

[swatski]

And one more thought on this, guys, those new Yamaha FRP hulls are SO THIN. I know, it is great for trailering, but boy - I would not want to mount any kind of heavy duty manifold or even simple ball valve assembly without some serious support (like for example what @KXCam22 built), I would be worried sick it is going to just rip the mushroom through hull when running hard in choppy conditions. Those 1.5" bronze valve assemblies are large and very heavy!
Hence, I pretty much decided to go with a softer approach and clamp intake/drain hoses directly to through hull fittings and run those strait up to the pumps in upper stern compartments. This way, I can visually/manually inspect transom (box) fittings (accessed easily through the oval opening in the hatch - no tools needed, it just pops up), and I will have easy and open access to pumps, which mounted in that wet storage location will be way above water line AND technically on the outside of the hull - draining behind swim deck cushions, if they fail or get a loose fitting.

--

 

[Mainah]

Needless to say I am following and learning. Love that @swatski is doing so much of the R&D before I get around to things. @swatski - Keep up the detailed posts and get your daughter driving the boat too.

 

[jcyamaharider]

My only concern with this bag is, I hear A LOT of complains about Fly High bags fittings leaking...
@jcyamaharider do you have an opinion, as you run both Sumo (Strait Line) and FLy High?

--

Just make sure the fittings are really tight and they will not leak. Mine only did when I hand tightened them.

 

[KXCam22]

I glued my bag fittings with pvc glue, as per the fly-high instructions. Never had a leak. I did have to move some fittings once ( I should have bought extra) but some heat on the glue and the fitting pops out, a bit scary but works . The only leaks I have had are with the single barb insert fittings into ballast hose. You could reinforce the hull area too, similar to what I did but glue the FRP sheet to the hull with polyester resin. Lots of ways to skin a cat and they all work. Cam.

 

[Julian]

@Mainah the Yamaha 242x ballast intake is in the engine compartment floor, just to the starboard of the starboard engine pretty much centered on that side the engine. I show it on the video I did last year of the 242x (mobile or I'd link it)

 

[swatski]

@Mainah, @KXCam22, @dan144k, @rocknracing, @jcyamaharider Do you guys know of a simple timer module that could be reset instantly and would be easily adjustable (for changing timing without reprogramming), something similar to this one (https://www.wakemakers.com/wakemakers-ballast-system-timer.html -- $50 just seems a bit much as I would need at least 4 modules):

I am prepared to go with the one above unit at point, but will not be needing their connectors (so why pay for it?) but it otherwise does fulfill my major criteria:

1. instant reset
   
2. easily adjustable timing
3. battle tested by wakeboarding enthusiasts

--

 

[KXCam22]

What is the timer really going to do for you? Is it essential? The pumps are loud and you can hear them run when the boat is at full speed so I would suggest it would be very hard to forget one on. I never have. Cam.