Another leak post - help needed.

[NewGuySX320HO]

Hi All,

I got this boat about 6 months ago and it has been a problem since the start. Have not been boating since 7/30/2021 when we nearly sunk the boat with my kids on board - great! Here is the issue: I have a continuous leak and I cannot find it. Just today, back to the ramp to see if my latest round of leak sealing made any difference. Very minimal water was seen in the engine compartment. Same for the manhole area (covers are off, starboard water locker is removed so I can see everything). The boat is on the water for less than 2 hours and the bilge pump is cycling, however there is not enough water for it to actual drain overboard. When I pull the boat out of the water it is draining 20+ gallons of water from the hull drain plug! I have no idea where ithat much water is coming from. Here is what is replaced/sealed:

1. Scupper is SS and zero leak (filled with water on the trailer and no leaking). Same thing on the water as the back is dry.
2. All steering, reverser bucket and other thru-transom holes are silicne sealed with no water coming in.
3. All hose clamps in the back are replaced. (Engine compartment next, but no noticable dripping.)
4. Manholes were leaking where these are glassed into the transom. Repaired with fiberglass resin and pits in aluminum repaired with JB Weld Steel epoxy. Replaced clean out plug seals and these show zero water leaking.
5. Dripping areas under the manholes sealed with 4200 where the tunnel meets the hull and silicone where the pump meets the tunnel.
6. I do see a small leak at the intermediate bearing on the port engine which is mostly just dripping. A quart per hour would be a good guess. Oh and the drip stops when the motor starts. No visible leak from starboard (cant start with water locker out).
7. Anchor locker is completely dry (never left the dock). Ski locker is dry.

So here is the question. Where can that much water be coming from??? 20 gallons or more is definiately not coming from the minimal drip on the port bearing. Any other places in the hull where water can be coming in??? Am I missing something??? Please help.

FYI - thinking of renaming the boat "Leaky Too".

Thanks in advance,
Rich

 

[Acard7]

When my port intermediate bearing was going bad it would be a fast drip when the engine is off. When engine running in neutral detent it would barely drip. When engine in forward detent, gushing of water. Barely any throttle and it would be spraying!! So it may very well be your intermediate bearing, check it while someone else is captain of the boat.

On a different note, I had a hose not hooked up to the clean out are drain, so the fitting under the boat was letting water run right into the bilge area, I assume you checked all those though!

 

[Dave burke]

Yikes! 20 gallons is a lot. Have you tried the garden hose test? Run a hose to the bottom of the engine compartment and see if any water comes out? When mine was leaking a few years ago it was because there was damage to the shaft sleeve. You might want to take the pumps off and make sure these sleeves are not damaged and sealed properly.

 

[NewGuySX320HO]

When my port intermediate bearing was going bad it would be a fast drip when the engine is off. When engine running in neutral detent it would barely drip. When engine in forward detent, gushing of water. Barely any throttle and it would be spraying!! So it may very well be your intermediate bearing, check it while someone else is captain of the boat.

On a different note, I had a hose not hooked up to the clean out are drain, so the fitting under the boat was letting water run right into the bilge area, I assume you checked all those though!

The port side drips, but not a dramatic amount, and stops when the engine is running. I was tied up to the dock and ran the motor at 3000 RPM wich zero drips. Just a side note: The cover over the port intermediate bearing is removed so I can see what is happening there.
For the back part every hose clamp is brand new. Clean out seals are brand new. There are zero visible leaks. Clean out hatch is off. The large rubber tubes (over the jet plugs) are removed. Starboard side water locker is removed so I can clearly see everything.
Crazy that it can be completely dry and then leak 20+ gallons in less than 2 hours with ZERO visibility of where the water is coming from.

 

[Julian]

The port side drips, but not a dramatic amount, and stops when the engine is running. I was tied up to the dock and ran the motor at 3000 RPM wich zero drips. Just a side note: The cover over the port intermediate bearing is removed so I can see what is happening there.
For the back part every hose clamp is brand new. Clean out seals are brand new. There are zero visible leaks. Clean out hatch is off. The large rubber tubes (over the jet plugs) are removed. Starboard side water locker is removed so I can clearly see everything.
Crazy that it can be completely dry and then leak 20+ gallons in less than 2 hours with ZERO visibility of where the water is coming from.

I would make it a proper in water test with forward movement at speed to see if it leaks more. Just sitting at the dock reving the engine puts very different pressures on the fittings than having the massive pressures in play when the intake tunnel is being STUFFED with water. Think about what happens when you are going 40mph and take off the throttle - the intake is no longer being clear (by the pump) of water, so the pressures in the intake with go UP big time.

Also, 20 gallons is a lot of water (think about four 5 gallon gas cans) - are you sure it was that much? Did you measure this somehow - or just an estimate? I would expect the bilge to kick in with that much water in the boat.

 

[NewGuySX320HO]

Yikes! 20 gallons is a lot. Have you tried the garden hose test? Run a hose to the bottom of the engine compartment and see if any water comes out? When mine was leaking a few years ago it was because there was damage to the shaft sleeve. You might want to take the pumps off and make sure these sleeves are not damaged and sealed properly.

Thank you for the quick reply. Yes I thought of the shaft sleeve and have inspected it. No visible holes or splits. Also brank new hose clamps throughout the entire back area (ending compartment still to be done, but no visible dripping).
I tried the hose test on the trailer in the driveway with the front lifter high and did not see any dripping. For this test I filled it to where the engines were in water up to the middle of the oil filters (approx). Enough that water was in all 3 chambers of the engine compartment and the inside drain plugs were unscrewed.
Hmmm - I may try this test again, but with the boat more level.

QUESTION for all of the mechanics: how is the jet pump sealed to the transom??? Anyone experienced any leaks directly into the hull from that location???

 

[NewGuySX320HO]

I would make it a proper in water test with forward movement at speed to see if it leaks more. Just sitting at the dock reving the engine puts very different pressures on the fittings than having the massive pressures in play when the intake tunnel is being STUFFED with water. Think about what happens when you are going 40mph and take off the throttle - the intake is no longer being clear (by the pump) of water, so the pressures in the intake with go UP big time.

Also, 20 gallons is a lot of water (think about four 5 gallon gas cans) - are you sure it was that much? Did you measure this somehow - or just an estimate? I would expect the bilge to kick in with that much water in the boat.

I about sunk the boat in July and it has only been in the water a few times since. In July the bilge pump did not activate as the screen was FULL of foam crumbles from the engine cover. Yes 20 gallons is a LOT. I did not actually measure this, but the boat was dry before it went in to the water and within just a few minutes there was noticable water in the back and by the bilge pump. The bilge pump auto cycled as usual (and the screen is clean), but the pump is in only to 1/2 inch of water - not enough to pump anything overboard. After letting it sit in the water for 1+ hours (less than 2 for sure), I turned the bilge pump OFF and put the boat back on the trailer. Once it was out of the water the engine compartment has water to over the top if the deck drain hose - bilge pump fully under water - and the back area has water roughly 1/2 full. Then I unscrewed the drain plug and it took at least 10 minutes of a full stream before it was stopped. Water has to be accumulating in the hull forward of the engine bay since it only shows up when the boat is nose high on the ramp. My mechanic friend who went to help could only shake his head and say there is NO WAY that much water can come from the visible leak at the intermediate bearing. It is certainly leaking somewhere though....

 

[Julian]

Have you gone through the leak finder thread?

 

[Acard7]

Something I want to clear up with myself here because I’m having some confusion lol. When you tested your sealing job you obviously didn’t run the boat with the starboard water locker off did you? Or at least didn’t run that starboard engine? I just assume you’re taking the water locker, clean out hatch, and rubber tubes over the plugs off to see easier when you’re running a hose test or just setting the boat in the water to float to see any possible leaks?

10 minutes of running water out of the drain hole is definitely a lot! Even when my port bearing leaked a ton I don’t think I ever had that much come out.. I will be doing a garden hose test because I still have a small leak somewhere but I assume it’s due to old seals needing sealed again with 4200/5200. Yesterday my bilge only ran once and I didn’t have but a drop come out of the drain plug so it’s always a toss up for me when I will have more or nothing.

 

[NewGuySX320HO]

Have you gone through the leak finder thread?

Hi Julian, Yes I have been using the leak finder as a guide for things to look at. So far all checked and unable to locate any leaks dramatic enough to cause the volume of water I am seeing.

 

[Julian]

Hi Julian, Yes I have been using the leak finder as a guide for things to look at. So far all checked and unable to locate any leaks dramatic enough to cause the volume of water I am seeing.

What is the temp of the water?

 

[NewGuySX320HO]

What is the temp of the water?

Cold. The only time the engine ran (Port only - Starboard has the water locker removed) was about 1 minute just to see how much the intermediate bearing leaked while running and it did not leak at all 3000 RPM tied to the dock.

 

[FSH 210 Sport]

What is the temp of the water?

Ahhhh! Great question!

I have not seen the pilot water outlets and hoses mentioned once in this thread.

At least on my boat the pilot water is almost always very cool unless I’ve been running it hard for an hour. @NewGuySX320HO the pilot water is coming directly from the oil coolers.

 

[NewGuySX320HO]

Ahhhh! Great question!

I have not seen the pilot water outlets and hoses mentioned once in this thread.

At least on my boat the pilot water is almost always very cool unless I’ve been running it hard for an hour. @NewGuySX320HO the pilot water is coming directly from the oil coolers.

Thanks FSH. The motors were both off (except port for about 1 minute) and no visible water leak. All the hoses in the engine bay are dry and in the bilge area they are dry plus all new home clamps. The engine hatch is removed now to replace the crumbling foam and the cleanout hatch is off as well as the starboard water locker. I can see all of these areas pretty well. Still no clue where this amount of water could be coming from.

 

[FSH 210 Sport]

Thanks FSH. The motors were both off (except port for about 1 minute) and no visible water leak. All the hoses in the engine bay are dry and in the bilge area they are dry plus all new home clamps. The engine hatch is removed now to replace the crumbling foam and the cleanout hatch is off as well as the starboard water locker. I can see all of these areas pretty well. Still no clue where this amount of water could be coming from.

What do you mean by water locker? I think I know what you mean but I want to be sure.

Remember what Mycroft Holmes said to Sherlock: “ Remember what father said Sherly, when everything plausible has been eliminated, whatever remains, however implausible, has to be the answer“. That quote has served me well over the years.

 

[NewGuySX320HO]

What do you mean by water locker? I think I know what you mean but I want to be sure.

Remember what Mycroft Holmes said to Sherlock: “ Remember what father said Sherly, when everything plausible has been eliminated, whatever remains, however implausible, has to be the answer“. That quote has served me well over the years.

If you remove the clean-out hatch the water locker is the big silver canister in the middle (that one is for the starboard motor). Removing this opens up visibility to the entire bilge area in the back.

 

[FSH 210 Sport]

If you remove the clean-out hatch the water locker is the big silver canister in the middle (that one is for the starboard motor). Removing this opens up visibility to the entire bilge area in the back.

okay cool… I thought that’s what you meant, I just call them water locks.

Does your boat take on water while in motion or just sitting still?

 

[NewGuySX320HO]

okay cool… I thought that’s what you meant, I just call them water locks.

Does your boat take on water while in motion or just sitting still?

Sitting still and lots of water. See my other comments in this thread for detailed explanations. Thanks in advance for any help.

 

[FSH 210 Sport]

Sitting still and lots of water. See my other comments in this thread for detailed explanations. Thanks in advance for any help.

I read through your comments but I just wanted to make sure of that fact.

So if the engines are off and it’s leaking that much water in then that eliminates the pilot circuit outputs, as well as increased leakage of the port intermediate bearing leak while running.

Another clarification, I thought you said the only way the water is visible in the bilge is if it is on the trailer with the nose up? Am I to take it that this large amount of water is not seen in the bilge when the boat is just sitting at the dock?

 

[NewGuySX320HO]

Something I want to clear up with myself here because I’m having some confusion lol. When you tested your sealing job you obviously didn’t run the boat with the starboard water locker off did you? Or at least didn’t run that starboard engine? I just assume you’re taking the water locker, clean out hatch, and rubber tubes over the plugs off to see easier when you’re running a hose test or just setting the boat in the water to float to see any possible leaks?

10 minutes of running water out of the drain hole is definitely a lot! Even when my port bearing leaked a ton I don’t think I ever had that much come out.. I will be doing a garden hose test because I still have a small leak somewhere but I assume it’s due to old seals needing sealed again with 4200/5200. Yesterday my bilge only ran once and I didn’t have but a drop come out of the drain plug so it’s always a toss up for me when I will have more or nothing.

OOPS missed your post. Did not run the starboard side with the water locker out. You are correct it was removed so I could see and get to repairing a leak around the aluminun housing where the jet plugs go in - both sides were leaking where they are fiberglassed in to the boat. Replaced the jet plug seals at the same time. Once repaired I took the boat to the water for a float / leak test. No leaks from where it was repaired, but lots of water from somewhere else.