Bimini 2019 July 7th (Bahia Mar) depart July 8th for Bimini return July 13th

[Sbrown]

We were doing 35 mph and I could on sit the bow of pocket cruiser.

Extremely dangerous, reckless and in most states illegal. Any more advice?

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

IMO the biggest mistake made is unwillingness to turn back. I still firmly believe if you can’t run around 20 mph at a minimum you need to turn back. This trip shouldn’t be north of 3 hours unless you stop for an extended time (swimming, clearing weeds, etc.). I didn’t include refueling because you shouldn’t have too (key word shouldn’t). There is nothing wrong with regrouping and taking another shot later in the day or waiting for another day. It actually should be apart of the planning process. @Andy S is a prime example this year. He has crossed on small boats more then most on this forum I would imagine, and made a decision to leave his boat in Nassau for a few days. He went out, it was to rough, and turned back. My bet is after 200 miles he didn’t want, desire, or expect to have to make that decision but he did.

Prepare your boat accordingly from a safety perspective, over prepare the crew mentally for a beating, don’t overload the boat, and be willing to alter your schedule if needed. I also believe a group should cross with no more then 4 boats. It’s hard to track and potentially help what you can’t easily keep in your vision.

Side note: In 2017, I crossed with @1948Isaac a few days after the main group crossing and we rode in the low 20s pretty much the entire trip. It was the most annoying crossing I have experienced. My wife was on his boat and she was soaked when we arrived. With that said, there was no bow cover, nothing broke, didn’t have to refuel, but we did get tossed for nearly 3 hours. Had it been worse I would have turned around and that is kind of the foundation to my belief around maintaining a speed of 20 or better. If you can’t you/crew are going to hate it and worry all week about crossing back, your boat is probably taking more of a beating then it should increasing the chances of a failure, and then fuel starts to become an issue.

Sounds like an easy decision to make but it’s actually a tough decision when everything is planned, you’re excited, you want to accomplish something you prepared for months, others are out there, etc. Now, if everyone is running well and you’re the only one that can’t stay 20 or better then you might just need push the gas and suck it up a little but that’s another situation into itself.

 

[ThatJeepGuy]

I'm beginning to pre-pack the boat for the trip but have not figured out how to keep the cooler in the bow between the seats and prevent it from moving aft. Any suggestions? I might place two ropes from the front port and starboard grab rails to the cooler just to keep it from sliding aftward.

I’ve made the trip for the last 3 years. I’ve made it a point to have nothing on the deck, except PFD’s if necessary. We froze all food that needed refrigerated. We packed a couple small coolers rather than 1 big cooler. Packed in the head, ski locker, under the stern seats.

In the case of an emergency wether to your boat or someone else’s I don’t want anything in the way, especially a spiderweb of lines holding a cooler.

 

[Julian]

if you can’t run around 20 mph at a minimum you need to turn back.

This may well be the case for some people, but I think giving this advice is what has caused some significant damage to boats. Captains translated this to....you must maintain 20mph or higher and beat the living shit out of their boats. Bad plan.

Sometimes the wave frequency/height combination means you have to go slower than 20. Does it make for a longer ride....yes. Does it mean you shouldn't cross - IMO - No. Just means you need to slow down and not pound the crap out of your crew.

During the bad 2017 crossing I think we averaged something like 16-18 mph. We rarely went airborne. It was rough, but it was bearable by our crew. Some others might differ in what they can "take". If you don't like it/aren't comfortable - TURN BACK. But DO NOT think that you must keep up 20 mph or else!!!

 

[SlowDorado]

How far have you taken your Scout offshore, if I may ask? In rough conditions? How rough? You mentioned 5-6 foot waves (???!) - if those had relatively short period there is no way your Scout could do very well there in open water...
I could be wrong. Am I wrong?

That said, there are also big differences in design making our jetboats somewhat unique. For example, your 21 footer’s hull length (under water line) on plane is effectively longer than a 24’ Yamaha (Yamaha transom is recessed and they include swim platform in LOA) while your outboard provides a pivot point for the stern/transom whereas our Yamahas break from the water surface as the intakes can not generate enough suction, which makes for a pretty jarring ride and way more inertia for things to break loose and fly around on the deck- in very rough conditions a Yamaha jetboat going fast literally takes the pounding like nothing else, lol.

—

How far have you taken your Scout offshore, if I may ask? In rough conditions? How rough? You mentioned 5-6 foot waves (???!) - if those had relatively short period there is no way your Scout could do very well there in open water...
I could be wrong. Am I wrong?

That said, there are also big differences in design making our jetboats somewhat unique. For example, your 21 footer’s hull length (under water line) on plane is effectively longer than a 24’ Yamaha (Yamaha transom is recessed and they include swim platform in LOA) while your outboard provides a pivot point for the stern/transom whereas our Yamahas break from the water surface as the intakes can not generate enough suction, which makes for a pretty jarring ride and way more inertia for things to break loose and fly around on the deck- in very rough conditions a Yamaha jetboat going fast literally takes the pounding like nothing else, lol.

—

This is starting to sound like the attack of the non-jetboats.

5-6 wakes are typical for anyone that knows New York harbor or the ferry traffic on the Hudson. other than slack tide, it’s a washing machine at the triangle. It’s where the Hudson meets the east river and mixes with the Atlantic.

Scouts tend to ride better than other boats of the same size. It’s the sole reason I chose it.


I’m lost on how i became a target for saying I use a non slip mat and strapping my cooler down.

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

This may well be the case for some people, but I think giving this advice is what has caused some significant damage to boats. Captains translated this to....you must maintain 20mph or higher and beat the living shit out of their boats. Bad plan.

Sometimes the wave frequency/height combination means you have to go slower than 20. Does it make for a longer ride....yes. Does it mean you shouldn't cross - IMO - No. Just means you need to slow down and not pound the crap out of your crew.

During the bad 2017 crossing I think we averaged something like 16-18 mph. We rarely went airborne. It was rough, but it was bearable by our crew. Some others might differ in what they can "take". If you don't like it/aren't comfortable - TURN BACK. But DO NOT think that you must keep up 20 mph or else!!!

This may well be the case for some people, but I think giving this advice is what has caused some significant damage to boats. Captains translated this to....you must maintain 20mph or higher and beat the living shit out of their boats. Bad plan.

Sometimes the wave frequency/height combination means you have to go slower than 20. Does it make for a longer ride....yes. Does it mean you shouldn't cross - IMO - No. Just means you need to slow down and not pound the crap out of your crew.

During the bad 2017 crossing I think we averaged something like 16-18 mph. We rarely went airborne. It was rough, but it was bearable by our crew. Some others might differ in what they can "take". If you don't like it/aren't comfortable - TURN BACK. But DO NOT think that you must keep up 20 mph or else!!!

The word “around” doesn’t mean or else. If you are constantly running 15 for example, no I don’t believe you should be out there in a jet boat. If you’re consistently around 20 at a minimum the conditions are doable. These boats shouldn’t be falling apart crossing to Bimini and they will not if you’re consistently able to stay around 20 or better. If your jumping every wave you’re going to slow down hence a decision that needs to be made. Many in 2017 should have returned. If a recall some did and later had good success.

 

[Kevin Sargent]

IMO the biggest mistake made is unwillingness to turn back. I still firmly believe if you can’t run around 20 mph at a minimum you need to turn back. This trip shouldn’t be north of 3 hours unless you stop for an extended time (swimming, clearing weeds, etc.). I didn’t include refueling because you shouldn’t have too (key word shouldn’t). There is nothing wrong with regrouping and taking another shot later in the day or waiting for another day. It actually should be apart of the planning process. @Andy S is a prime example this year. He has crossed on small boats more then most on this forum I would imagine, and made a decision to leave his boat in Nassau for a few days. He went out, it was to rough, and turned back. My bet is after 200 miles he didn’t want, desire, or expect to have to make that decision but he did.

Prepare your boat accordingly from a safety perspective, over prepare the crew mentally for a beating, don’t overload the boat, and be willing to alter your schedule if needed. I also believe a group should cross with no more then 4 boats. It’s hard to track and potentially help what you can’t easily keep in your vision.

Side note: In 2017, I crossed with @1948Isaac a few days after the main group crossing and we rode in the low 20s pretty much the entire trip. It was the most annoying crossing I have experienced. My wife was on his boat and she was soaked when we arrived. With that said, there was no bow cover, nothing broke, didn’t have to refuel, but we did get tossed for nearly 3 hours. Had it been worse I would have turned around and that is kind of the foundation to my belief around maintaining a speed of 20 or better. If you can’t you/crew are going to hate it and worry all week about crossing back, your boat is probably taking more of a beating then it should increasing the chances of a failure, and then fuel starts to become an issue.

Sounds like an easy decision to make but it’s actually a tough decision when everything is planned, you’re excited, you want to accomplish something you prepared for months, others are out there, etc. Now, if everyone is running well and you’re the only one that can stay 20 or better then you might just need push the gas and suck it up a little but that’s another situation into itself.

I really like this advice......Defining crossing condition requirement(wave height, intervals, storms etc) is one thing, but when you head out with all the excitement, we sometimes fail to observe the obvious. If you define a crossing speed, and you can't reach that speed comfortable, your are constantly looking at your speed. It will be easier to comprehend under stress, crossing conditions have not been met. Turn back immediately, let the heat and pressure calm the seas, then cross at a later time in the day.

 

[swatski]

call me crazy, but if you have that much water in the bilge that you need 2x1100gph pumps. you're better off taking out the drain plug and get the boat on plane as quick as possible. the water will go through a venturi affect and get sucked out as your moving at speed.

Crossing 5/6 ft wakes in an outlet is not the same as pounding waves in open ocean. Not the same at all.
Some experience feelings of shock, awe and/or just plain fear when exposed to the open ocean with no sight of land on the horizon. It can have great psychological impact, similar to fear of flying or fear of diving in the “blue”.

Now, taking the drain plug out while keeping the boat running up in the open ocean...
Not sure so sure about that...

I’ve beached a boat taking water in a river, and yes the Venturi effect is real and it does work, just not really applicable here.

And BTW, if you are the captain you should not be leaving the helm and jumping in the water under any circumstances, really.

—

 

[afsigma21]

...... If you define a crossing speed, and you can't reach that speed comfortable, your are constantly looking at your speed. It will be easier to comprehend under stress, crossing conditions have not been met. Turn back immediately, let the heat and pressure calm the seas, then cross at a later time in the day.

THIS

 

[Julian]

I really like this advice......Defining crossing condition requirement(wave height, intervals, storms etc) is one thing, but when you head out with all the excitement, we sometimes fail to observe the obvious. If you define a crossing speed, and you can't reach that speed comfortable, your are constantly looking at your speed. It will be easier to comprehend under stress, crossing conditions have not been met. Turn back immediately, let the heat and pressure calm the seas, then cross at a later time in the day.

OK, I'll buy that this is good advice for anyone who's not done much ocean boating, and for whom this is their first attempt at crossing to Bimini.

For others that have spent plenty of time in rolling seas trolling for hours, cruising along at 15 mph, not going airborne and taking our time is perfectly fine.

But I will repeat -- this does not mean you should press your boat up to 20 mph to prove its ok and keep going (or because you think you'll run out of gas if you don't)! Conditions change and you need to adjust with the changes. If your taking a beating....SLOW DOWN. Storms can pop up out of nowhere and you have to adjust to conditions.

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

That’s kind of my thinking @Kevin Sargent. I don’t think people just hold 20 regardless of conditions to the detriment of their boat. Rather I think conditions dictate their speed. You can easily monitor that and make a decision if needed. Fuel should not be an issue that happens to often on these crossing and IMO can be linked directly to maintaining of proper speeds. Willingness to turn back has to be a viable option and one each boat should be ready to make.

 

[swatski]

That’s kind of my thinking @Kevin Sargent. I don’t think people just hold 20 regardless of conditions to the detriment of their boat. Rather I think conditions dictate their speed. You can easily monitor that and make a decision if needed. Fuel should not be an issue that happens to often on these crossing and IMO can be linked directly to maintaining of proper speeds. Willingness to turn back has to be a viable option and one each boat should be ready to make.

Yep.
And BTW, if you need to hold something constant during the crossing, hold constant RPM not the speed. Holding the RPM simply saves a lot of fuel.
Trying to constantly work the throttle, manually or with a cruise control set to constant gps speed, is one reason people run out of gas.

—

 

[Bruce]

There are many varied opinions and some validity to most of them.

There is no perfect way to cross.

I see benefit in these discussion when the water is forecast to be rough. Perhaps most importantly there is a need for everyone to be prepared and have their own plan whatever it may be.

The ability to maintain a given speed is a useful metric but water conditions will typically vary during a crossing and are likely to be the worst in the first few miles after leaving Port Everglades.

During the 2017 crossing my group slowed to around 14 mph at which all boats including a 2015+ 240 completed the crossing without refueling. We did take a beating. It appears that conditions improved later in the day but that was counter to the forecast. In 2015 we returned to port to refuel after two boats were swamped then went back out and found worse conditions than we had earlier.

Ideally we all would cross on good weather days in larger boats.

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

Yep.
And BTW, if you need to hold something constant during the crossing, hold constant RPM not the speed. Holding the RPM simply saves a lot of fuel.
Trying to constantly work the throttle, manually or with a cruise control set to constant gps speed, is one reason people run out of gas.

—

I agree, it’s pretty much set cruising speed during our crossings. We definitely don’t constantly change speeds. They’re maybe some slight alterations throughout based on conditions, but from my crossings within the first 5 miles you’ll have a decent idea what you’ll be getting.

 

[Julian]

within the first 5 miles you’ll have a decent idea what you’ll be getting.

Totally agree with this...heck, once you are out of the Port Everglades washing machine (1/2 mile out), you know what you are in for! If you aren't comfortable there....it isn't going to get any better until you are 35 miles out and begin getting in the lee of the islands.

 

[Betik]

Extremely dangerous, reckless and in most states illegal. Any more advice?

Thank you for pointing this out, until this very second I had not realized the example I gave is the equivalent of riding on the hood on car.
Truth to be told , when someone with a backup plan of draining the cockpit with a hand pump, calls you “ reckless” it defiantly gets your attention!!!

PS. I fairly positive state law does not apply to international water or another country.

Note: windy has Monday at 3mph; it is a good thing

 

[Julian]

windy has Monday at 3mph; it is a good thing

Hoping and hoping this holds!!!!! Another flat calm crossing would be lovely!

 

[Betik]

Hoping and hoping this holds!!!!! Another flat calm crossing would be lovely!

I will be very jealous, but very much looking forward to see y’all have “boring “ crossing

 

[Berrie]

This is starting to sound like the attack of the non-jetboats.

5-6 wakes are typical for anyone that knows New York harbor or the ferry traffic on the Hudson. other than slack tide, it’s a washing machine at the triangle. It’s where the Hudson meets the east river and mixes with the Atlantic.

Scouts tend to ride better than other boats of the same size. It’s the sole reason I chose it.


I’m lost on how i became a target for saying I use a non slip mat and strapping my cooler down.

As a non-jet boater who has been on this site for a few years, I can tell you that nobody here will attack you just because you don't have a jet boat. That's just nonsense.

 

[Betik]

Now that is not entirely true @Berrie isn’t? The truth is more that you and your minivan have a very thick skin/hull