Coronavirus

[Dixie Highway]

@biglar155 if WI even does a shelter in place it’ll be much like ours or CA and NY. Basically grocery stores, hardware, banks, restaurants, pharmacies, and many many other business considered “critical” will remain open. You can go to these stores if need be. You can go outside, go to parks, etc. Hell, I hear in CA the pot dispensaries are considered “critical”. Idk all I can say is between work being overly stressful this week and now this shelter in place horse$h!t I’m going to need a vacation after this.

 

[BigN8]

I think we need to keep politics out of this thread and just focus on passing along facts, factual news, recommendations and best practices, and positive stories to get us through.

edit: and great cocktail recipes to get us through this crap

 

[I_squared_r]

5200 cases in nyc today. I went for a solo mountain bike ride earlier (yeah we have trails in NYC) and young people were hanging out at the trails and smoking weed together. Also the jewish orthodox communities are hit bad because most aren't following social distancing. I hope people become wise or else this virus isn't going to be contained.

I'm hearing a lot of acquaintances that have it. I visited my mechanic last week and he was positive a few days ago. It's scary because the shop owner has pre-existing conditions.. that man has been through so many heart attacks/strokes and I dont think he would fare well. I'm hoping that it doesnt transmit to him.

Today Cuomo says all non essential employees should stay home starting Sunday. Construction employees are considered essential so my brother is an elevator mechanic and is continuing to go to work.

 

[Liveto99]

I just got emails that my guys are supposed to keep in there trucks so that we can do repair work for pharmacies I’m purposely not mentioning names of the corporations. So what that tells me is probably by Monday they’re going to shut everything down and you’re gonna need documented paperwork in order to travel in your vehicle. Just an FYI so if there’s anything you need get it this weekend. If you need supplies to do a project at your house over the next week when your home I would get it before Sunday night. ? what do you think @swatski do I get a like from you?

 

[I_squared_r]

I just got emails that my guys are supposed to keep in there trucks so that we can do repair work for pharmacies I’m purposely not mentioning names of the corporations. So what that tells me is probably by Monday they’re going to shut everything down and you’re gonna need documented paperwork in order to travel in your vehicle. Just an FYI so if there’s anything you need get it this weekend. If you need supplies to do a project at your house over the next week when your home I would get it before Sunday night. ? what do you think @swatski do I get a like from you?

Yeah a few of my friends already have documents from their job that says they're an essential employee. I'm waking up early tomorrow to get food for at least a week.

 

[bronze_10]

So I have read all these pages and pages of opinions and personal forcasts and outlooks. I would like to give my two cent..

1st... for everyone that is pissed that things are not going exactly the way they think, are the ones that are not carried that massive burden of making the decisions that will affect and entire state or nations population. These are large decisions that will have long lasting ramifications. The largest problem is identifying the line where u take civil liberties away for the sake of public health... if people would follow the suggested guidelines, the forced reduction of our civil liberties would not be required. But those who are just living life like normal are pushing the situation toward untested waters. These are giant decisions that carry a massive amount of weight that we as keyboard warriors have the luxury of not carrying. Not political, it's just the facts... I am in nc and I DO NOT like our governor. I knew him before he was elected. However I think he has acted reasonably with decisions that effects millions immediately and many more millions over time with economic concerns..

Now .. with all that being said I want to give u a perspective from the law enforcement point of view. Our governor ordered all resturaunts closed for indoor dining by executive order.... there has been a lot of discussion in the law enforcement circles as to if the order can be enforced as criminal under the constitution... some say yes some say no... we have been given charging language to use for any violators and told to charge on citation and not arrest untill approximately the 4th violation. That's not a hard and fast rule, just us doing the best we can to navigate a period in time none of us have seen before. If a resturant owner is arrested it will be interesting to follow it as it works it's way through the court system. We have one resturant owner that refused to close saying he has a lot of older people that eat there everyday.. we are working through this now with him. What if all those old people he is trying to help get sick there? It will be interesting to see the ramifications if his big heart and good deed actually are detrimental to his customers. After ALOT of pressure and back and forth with the county DA office and the state government he moved all his tables outside and spread apart, for now that is good I guess..

But I would like everyone to take a Step back and consider the law enforcement officers position. We talked about the enormous decisions that are being made through out the federal and state and local governments. But when the decisions are made, it falls on the local leo to enforce. We swore an oath to the constitution like the military does. But where is the line? Where is the balance between rampant sickness or loss of civil liberty. This is a scary time and none of these decisions come easy. It's a case of once u open that door it's hard to close to history.

In closing of my 7 am saturday morning speech, I want to say for the most part things have been really quiet for the first week of quarantine. Not many Marjor calls. But in time that will start to erode I am afraid. So I urge all of us..... spread calm not fear! Spread facts not conjecture! Spread a word of support on social media.. acknowledge that it will be hard but we will get through this. Give your political leaders a break as they mull decisions that will be utterly historic in every since of the word. Help each other ... because if things start to get ugly it will hit me and my brother fist... then everyone else.!

(Just some thoughts from an old cop who doesnt sleep anymore!)

Now I'm gonna try to go back to sleep!

 

[Dixie Highway]

I just got emails that my guys are supposed to keep in there trucks so that we can do repair work for pharmacies I’m purposely not mentioning names of the corporations. So what that tells me is probably by Monday they’re going to shut everything down and you’re gonna need documented paperwork in order to travel in your vehicle. Just an FYI so if there’s anything you need get it this weekend. If you need supplies to do a project at your house over the next week when your home I would get it before Sunday night. ? what do you think @swatski do I get a like from you?

I sent those emails to my guys yesterday, right before our governor made his proclamation. I have to admit, it felt fairly surreal to have to do that. We were directed to inform our direct reports to keep the letter and their employee ID with at all times. I have one for myself, though if I have to use mine we have larger issues, it means one of my guys is unavailable. We service food and bev manufacturing so they’re considering it essential.

 

[haknslash]

Alabama research offers hope in the fight against coronavirus

How a drug that failed against Ebola could help in the fight against the new coronavirus

www.al.com

 

[Julian]

So I have read all these pages and pages of opinions and personal forcasts and outlooks. I would like to give my two cent..

1st... for everyone that is pissed that things are not going exactly the way they think, are the ones that are not carried that massive burden of making the decisions that will affect and entire state or nations population. These are large decisions that will have long lasting ramifications. The largest problem is identifying the line where u take civil liberties away for the sake of public health... if people would follow the suggested guidelines, the forced reduction of our civil liberties would not be required. But those who are just living life like normal are pushing the situation toward untested waters. These are giant decisions that carry a massive amount of weight that we as keyboard warriors have the luxury of not carrying. Not political, it's just the facts... I am in nc and I DO NOT like our governor. I knew him before he was elected. However I think he has acted reasonably with decisions that effects millions immediately and many more millions over time with economic concerns..

Now .. with all that being said I want to give u a perspective from the law enforcement point of view. Our governor ordered all resturaunts closed for indoor dining by executive order.... there has been a lot of discussion in the law enforcement circles as to if the order can be enforced as criminal under the constitution... some say yes some say no... we have been given charging language to use for any violators and told to charge on citation and not arrest untill approximately the 4th violation. That's not a hard and fast rule, just us doing the best we can to navigate a period in time none of us have seen before. If a resturant owner is arrested it will be interesting to follow it as it works it's way through the court system. We have one resturant owner that refused to close saying he has a lot of older people that eat there everyday.. we are working through this now with him. What if all those old people he is trying to help get sick there? It will be interesting to see the ramifications if his big heart and good deed actually are detrimental to his customers. After ALOT of pressure and back and forth with the county DA office and the state government he moved all his tables outside and spread apart, for now that is good I guess..

But I would like everyone to take a Step back and consider the law enforcement officers position. We talked about the enormous decisions that are being made through out the federal and state and local governments. But when the decisions are made, it falls on the local leo to enforce. We swore an oath to the constitution like the military does. But where is the line? Where is the balance between rampant sickness or loss of civil liberty. This is a scary time and none of these decisions come easy. It's a case of once u open that door it's hard to close to history.

In closing of my 7 am saturday morning speech, I want to say for the most part things have been really quiet for the first week of quarantine. Not many Marjor calls. But in time that will start to erode I am afraid. So I urge all of us..... spread calm not fear! Spread facts not conjecture! Spread a word of support on social media.. acknowledge that it will be hard but we will get through this. Give your political leaders a break as they mull decisions that will be utterly historic in every since of the word. Help each other ... because if things start to get ugly it will hit me and my brother fist... then everyone else.!

(Just some thoughts from an old cop who doesnt sleep anymore!)

Now I'm gonna try to go back to sleep!

Great perspective.

I can't believe that restaurant is being allowed to remain open for OLDER people's sake! That is dangerous. There is no reason these people cant take their food home with them!

My brother is furious with his governor (FL). The main reason is because he gives zero notice or time on his announcements. Yesterday he closed all dine in at restaurants (finally)....which made my brother happy as he can now file an insurance claim, but the infuriating part is he made it effective immediately. The restaurant was open, staff were working, food was prepped etc. Its as if the guy has no clue about how a restaurant works and that not only is this devastating to restaurants, but we'll fuck em every little bit we can. There was no reason they couldn't have said it is effective tomorrow, or made the announcement last night! Yes these are hard decisions, but think! That resulted in hundreds of dollars of food wasted (which when you are operating at a loss on behalf of your employees already, simply means more money directly removed from my brothers bank account).

Ohio seems to be the model state at this point. Making early decisions with notice. Planning and thinking ahead....what a concept! When the dust clears it will be interesting to see if OH had a Pandemic response plan, or if they put a team together quickly, but when you think about it, the steps and trigger points could easily have been decided upon in advance, then modified based on the situation on the ground.

My 2 cents on Saturday morning.

 

[bronze_10]

Great perspective.

I can't believe that restaurant is being allowed to remain open for OLDER people's sake! That is dangerous. There is no reason these people cant take their food home with them!

My brother is furious with his governor (FL). The main reason is because he gives zero notice or time on his announcements. Yesterday he closed all dine in at restaurants (finally)....which made my brother happy as he can now file an insurance claim, but the infuriating part is he made it effective immediately. The restaurant was open, staff were working, food was prepped etc. Its as if the guy has no clue about how a restaurant works and that not only is this devastating to restaurants, but we'll fuck em every little bit we can. There was no reason they couldn't have said it is effective tomorrow, or made the announcement last night! Yes these are hard decisions, but think! That resulted in hundreds of dollars of food wasted (which when you are operating at a loss on behalf of your employees already, simply means more money directly removed from my brothers bank account).

Ohio seems to be the model state at this point. Making early decisions with notice. Planning and thinking ahead....what a concept! When the dust clears it will be interesting to see if OH had a Pandemic response plan, or if they put a team together quickly, but when you think about it, the steps and trigger points could easily have been decided upon in advance, then modified based on the situation on the ground.

My 2 cents on Saturday morning.

Again... easy to make a choice without the weight of millions of livelihood on your back.. could things be done better ... sure. Thats always... your brother lost food... many who do not own a resturant / bar will be unemployed with zero money... many small businesses will go out of business... these are serious decisions and we need to give them credit where credit is due. The message of Keep calm... we will make it! Is what I was trying to convey. I'm sorry your brother lost food that was cooked.

(Ps. The resturant isnt ALLOWED to be open..he is being fined and for the time being he is fine with that. My point is it will be interesting to see what the legal fight will look like in the future.)

 

[swatski]

Give your political leaders a break as they mull decisions that will be utterly historic in every since of the word.

Sure.
However, spreading misinformation is simply not a great way to manage a crisis, especially of this proportion. There are consequences.
From my perspective (of a clinical diagnostician/immunologist, currently an “essential” HCP) I am extremely concerned with spread of misinformation coming from the top such as overhyping untested medicines and services.

In this context, I read this piece this morning, I find the opinions of the officials cited, outside the cabinet, quite accurate (from my perspective).

Fact-Checking 5 Trump Administration Claims On The Coronavirus Pandemic

The White House has announced a flurry of actions it says are making a difference against the coronavirus pandemic, but a closer look finds some aren't what they seem and others remain to be executed.

www.npr.org

—

 

[swatski]

Alabama research offers hope in the fight against coronavirus

How a drug that failed against Ebola could help in the fight against the new coronavirus

www.al.com

Please consider the spin being applied to those findings, a simple fact remains it will take years to ascertain any of those very optimistic claims actually hold water.
Of course testing should speed up. And it does. But propagating “spin” can only do harm. The US NIH and FDA standards and guidelines for conducting clinical trials have been proven to be extremely effective in the last decade. There is a lot at stake if we tear those down in a rushed panic attack.

—

 

[bronze_10]

Sure.
However, spreading misinformation is simply not a great way to manage a crisis, especially of this proportion. There are consequences.
From my perspective (of a clinical diagnostician/immunologist, currently an “essential” HCP) I am extremely concerned with spread of misinformation coming from the top such as overhyping untested medicines and services.

In this context, I read this piece this morning, I find the opinions of the officials cited, outside the cabinet, quite accurate (from my perspective).

Fact-Checking 5 Trump Administration Claims On The Coronavirus Pandemic

The White House has announced a flurry of actions it says are making a difference against the coronavirus pandemic, but a closer look finds some aren't what they seem and others remain to be executed.

www.npr.org

—

I. Certainly dont have your knowledge about the virus... but I have read multiple sources talking about effective treatments.... dont know if they will work out or not but I am gonna choose to be positive... not blind!! But focused on the positives!

 

[bronze_10]

Please consider the spin being applied to those findings, a simple fact remains it will take years to ascertain any of those very optimistic claims actually hold water.
Of course testing should speed up. And it does. But propagating “spin” can only do harm. The US NIH and FDA standards and guidelines for conducting clinical trials have been proven to be extremely effective in the last decade. There is a lot at stake if we tear those down in a rushed panic attack.

—

I agree and again I will bow to your superior knowledge... but those guidelines for conducting clinical trials is the reason by dad is dead. Denied a treatment that is used around the world and saved many thousands of lives but has been mired down in clinical red tape in the us for many many years... so I hope enough red tape is removed to allow for true progress against this virus without sacrificing true safety.... with multiple nations working on it perhaps one will be able to make significant progress..

 

[Ronnie]

What’s the definition of insanity again? Doing the same thing or taking the same actions while expecting different results right? Other countries started through this before the U.S. Why are we not doing what the more successful countries have done or are doing? Because we are worried about liability/getting sued more than slowing or stopping the spread and reducing the number of deaths. Seems like a new definition of insanity too me, save rights and/or money not lives.

Does anybody really believe that the state by state half assed shelter in place structure the U.S. has adopted so far is going to be effective when less than 10% of the states have adopted it and people are still free to move between states and in to as well as out of the country?

As for giving our political leaders a break because these are tough decisions, I get it but these decisions need to be made and they have had weeks and months now to make them. If they can’t do their jobs they should not have such jobs. They took and are still taking the pay so they should expect and we should expect them to do the work.

Currently I can’t tell who is in charge at the Federal level. Is it the President or VP? The Pres says it’s the VP but it always seems to be the Pres giving press briefings. Anyone notice the Press Secretary has not held any Press briefings? $180k annual salary, no experience and she doesn’t have to do her job. How do I get a “job” like that. Ironically I’d bet that she is considered essential and therefore would not be covered by a shelter in place order. So she and the rest of our politians and staff can travel anywhere they want at our cost. Save their rights, money and lives at the cost of the general public’s seems to be the underlying theme so far.

 

[Bearsar240]

I like Girls, Guns and Beer(not Corona)!

 

[swatski]

Denied a treatment that is used around the world and saved many thousands of lives but has been mired down in clinical red tape in the us for many many years...

I appreciate the sentiment completely.

However, turns out humans are actually not very good at making educated guesses. Indeed, it has been shown over and over, without a doubt, hard statistical analysis always beats human gut feeling and judgments. It's been shown over and over that clinical trials (and delivery of effective medication) SUFFER if hard, objective criteria are not employed such as those afforded by double blind, placebo-controlled and longitudinal studies.

In other words, we will often think we know something while the properly controlled trials show otherwise and ultimately, those blinded tests rule - all the time (when re-evaluated, or in hindsight).

You can cut corners and throw Hail Marys, then expect a miracle. That's called "anecdotal evidence".
Probably not how you want to run an army, or a medical system. That is not to say there is no room there for "compassionate use" cases but that's a different discussion altogether.

--

 

[MattFX4]

A fiasco in the making? As the coronavirus pandemic takes hold, we are making decisions without reliable data

A fiasco in the making? As the #coronavirus pandemic takes hold, we are making decisions without reliable data.

www.statnews.com

 

[Julian]

@Ronnie I agree, the feds should be forcing a standard policy country wide. Do the following now, or lose federal funding for X. People will panic less if they see strong leadership, planning and execution from the top. These are terrible and tough decisions, but that is what their jobs are. As Trump rightly said, this is a war. And in wartime we make terribly difficult choices. Right now it seems like each state is waging their own war, on their own terms, with no consolidated plan. That cannot be the most effective way!

 

[bronze_10]

@Ronnie I agree, the feds should be forcing a standard policy country wide. Do the following now, or lose federal funding for X. People will panic less if they see strong leadership, planning and execution from the top. These are terrible and tough decisions, but that is what their jobs are. As Trump rightly said, this is a war. And in wartime we make terribly difficult choices. Right now it seems like each state is waging their own war, on their own terms, with no consolidated plan. That cannot be the most effective way!
Oh maybe I need to be more clear.. I dont agree with every decision here... julian your state comment if a good example... I agree who heartedly... and that was going on inside the states as well... county by county... this is uncharted territory and if everyone is just doing something just to simply be doing something then nothing works. I also this the logistics are greater the higher up u go... easier for a town to lock down than a county than a region than a state than a country... cities and states have moved quicker but I think a shelter in place order for the country is coming. And it will prob be nessisary to get a good handle on this mess.

Edit... I'm just glad I brought my boat home yesterday in case they do lock down travel... that way I have something to work on!