Some water getting in Resolved

[zipper]

@drewkaree How did the gasket install go? You are leavin me hanging waiting on your results Did you use another method? I am at the point where I am getting ready to close up the hatch and seal it. Going slow using mostly one hand though.

Also some of the silicone I used that didn't come up easily is a PITA to get off. I have been working on it with Acetone and a razor blade but still there are some spots where it is curved right there I am having trouble with removing all the Silicone residue. Any advice?

I use this stuff. DeBond Corporation



Notice the can on the transom. The adhesive here is Sikaflex.

 

[drewkaree]

Try Butyl putty. Easy on easy off. Works great!

https://www.amazon.com/XFasten-8-Inch-30-Foot-Sealing-Patching/dp/B07D9CNB3H/ref=sr_1_1?crid=Y0Z07I6DXWQZ&dchild=1&keywords=xfasten+butyl+putty+tape%2C+gray+1%2F8+inch+x+3%2F4+inch+x+30+foot&qid=1618917160&sprefix=xfasten+butyl%2Caps%2C237&sr=8-1

Looking at some of the reviews, it's either great for what they used it for, or so-so. Their statements on their product seem to agree with one of the reviews that would seem to be a problem to me, for this use - it's like gum on a hot June day. I was duplicating someone else's idea, not to mention I had bought the gasket material last fall and simply ran out of time to be able to install this last year, so I was following an already-tried idea, so I felt pretty comfortable in doing so. If someone does try that stuff, please let us know the results, it may very well turn out to be the better option.

Anyhoo...here's just how big a gap that can be underneath the cleanout tray, allowing water to leak into your bilge from the cleanout tray - this was not the only area that had NO sealant between the cleanout tray and the deck of the boat, as I would find out after pulling the tray.






This was the funniest part of the whole disassembly - my boat has been under the shipping cover, and stored inside. Since picking it up, I have no idea how water would get in, so I'm left to believe this is from last year, and just what happens to the water that does make it under the cleanout tray. There were 3 different areas that still had water under them, and each of them had zero sealant between the tray and the deck. This is before I removed a single screw, just testing the gap with that piece of cardboard, and when I pulled it out....

 

[drewkaree]

Pulling the tray took a bit more effort than I thought. Remove all the screws on the topside, loosen the hose clamps via the cleanout hatch and slide them down the cleanout tubes, and do the same for the drain. The cleanout tubes have some sort of sealant applied to them, as well as the hose clamp. I have no idea how anyone would be able to ensure that all the sealant stayed in place, or would end up evenly applied, as the molded parts from the cleanout tray slide down in there, which is gonna smear it or pool it in certain spots. Adding the giant hose clamps is a nice added touch on Yamaha's part, although I'm guessing this one has to do with someone not having that clamp, and forgetting a plug, swamping their boat via the cleanout tube. Still, thanks for the clamps. It doesn't make up for the rest of the workmanship in this cleanout tray area.

The drain hose actually had sealant on it as well. THIS was not only not needed, but turned that stupid hose into the hardest one to remove. It seemed like it would give up the ghost quite easily, since the hose would spin, but it was goobered up in the barbed area, and with the buttload of friction it was providing and not being able to get a nice grip on it, it took me a few minutes to get that one off. I also had to use a tool to separate the cleanout tubes themselves, and the sealant holding them to the cleanout tray tube moldings.

Here's the tray after I was able to get everything removed. That's the bottom of the cleanout tray, and every bit of discoloration is the sealant they used. The darker areas are where water was passing right by the sealant. The discoloration is from the water we boat in. My cleanout plugs somewhere around here will attest to just how much is in the water. That red screwdriver is pointing to one of the areas that still has water in it, that screw hole - remember, covered, covered storage, and under the lid covering that area.

 

[drewkaree]

Here's two of the areas where water would leak in under the cleanout tray. You can see the sealant job that was done. You can also clearly see by the outline, of just how much of the cleanout tray overlapped the hole, so there is absolutely zero reason the person doing this job had to get so close to the edge (and miss, on a few different spots) to put down a bead of sealant for the cleanout tray.



I didn't highlight it in this pic, I have absolute garbage cel phone service at the lake house, so I was gonna do this when I got home - in this pic, right where that drain would go, the sealant was applied right OVER the cutout for that area (just to the left of the plug bungee, that half-moon cutout). There's even a nice glob of sealant down in the bilge right there. How ironic, right where the drain sits is one of the areas that's completely unsealed. That's also the area where I was able to slide that piece of cardboard underneath the tray.

 

[motomandan]

Looking at some of the reviews, it's either great for what they used it for, or so-so. Their statements on their product seem to agree with one of the reviews that would seem to be a problem to me, for this use - it's like gum on a hot June day. I was duplicating someone else's idea, not to mention I had bought the gasket material last fall and simply ran out of time to be able to install this last year, so I was following an already-tried idea, so I felt pretty comfortable in doing so. If someone does try that stuff, please let us know the results, it may very well turn out to be the better option.

Anyhoo...here's just how big a gap that can be underneath the cleanout tray, allowing water to leak into your bilge from the cleanout tray - this was not the only area that had NO sealant between the cleanout tray and the deck of the boat, as I would find out after pulling the tray.

View attachment 147444

View attachment 147445


This was the funniest part of the whole disassembly - my boat has been under the shipping cover, and stored inside. Since picking it up, I have no idea how water would get in, so I'm left to believe this is from last year, and just what happens to the water that does make it under the cleanout tray. There were 3 different areas that still had water under them, and each of them had zero sealant between the tray and the deck. This is before I removed a single screw, just testing the gap with that piece of cardboard, and when I pulled it out....

View attachment 147446

Worked great on mine and 100s of other boats I have used butyl putty on. You need to go back with a plastic scraper and scrape off the excess that will squeeze out. Also need to do any other openings Thru hull drain fittings, kill switch buttons, Connections for motor washouts etc.

 

[drewkaree]

@HangOutdoors I just realized, I'm hijacking your thread. I'll keep posting stuff here, cuz I'm fading fast right now, but I will pull it out and start a different thread later today/tomorrow with more info. I got just enough left in me to show you the Reader's Digest version of the end result

Here's the stuff I ordered:


Here's what I used to cut things up - anyone doing this same thing with a gasket START WITH A FRESH BLADE!



I did a test the night before, and sanding does give some "tooth" for the adhesive (or sealant, if you go that route) to stick to. I took some 60 grit and sanded about an inch all along the edge. I dunno if another grit would be better, but that's what I had on hand, so that's what I used. I haven't ever had/seen a piece of starboard, but that's what this stuff seems to be. At the very least, I can completely see why you didn't think your sealant had very good adhesion. Even after sanding, adhesion will be good enough to work for this, but this stuff seems to be made of Teflon or some other anti-stick stuff. It can be done, and sanding/roughing up the surface DEFINITELY helps, but it seems like it's never gonna have that "feels like it's there forever" feeling without more drastic adhesive usage.



Lastly for now, I went around the edge, little by little, removing the backing from the adhesive as I went along. Press down firmly, trying to make sure I don't stretch/pull the gasket material, and doing the best I could to turn the corners while trying not to remove too much of the gasket or cut all the way through (and leaving another seam). When turning the corners, it has to be cut to allow bending of the material to follow the curve/turn, otherwise it just bunches up. The gasket has no breaks or seams in the entire application I did except for the beginning and end. I'll shoot more out soon on this, and I'll explain more about the weld nut idea. That's from Frank-something around here. I also drilled a few more holes, and I'll go into what was up with that. Here's the full gasket, all applied, and how much was left over:

 

[drewkaree]

You need to go back with a plastic scraper and scrape off the excess that will squeeze out. Also need to do any other openings Thru hull drain fittings, kill switch buttons, Connections for motor washouts etc.

It sounds nice for the second part - the other openings, fittings, buttons etc. Sounds like it works/tools like plumber's dope, which sounds great for that stuff. Nice idea!


For this cleanout tray, and having to remove the excess squeeze out, my opinion is that this would make this a longer ordeal due to the lack of space, both to get your scraper in there and ensuring a nice finish. Here's the amount of space you'll have (seems like I'd end up smearing more of it around and having it take me twice as long ? )




Last item, here's my "test area". Added some screw holes, and tested this area. Those screws and the gasket seem like they are really solid. More to follow, at a later time, as long as I can recover enough to post.

 

[motomandan]

It sounds nice for the second part - the other openings, fittings, buttons etc. Sounds like it works/tools like plumber's dope, which sounds great for that stuff. Nice idea!


For this cleanout tray, and having to remove the excess squeeze out, my opinion is that this would make this a longer ordeal due to the lack of space, both to get your scraper in there and ensuring a nice finish. Here's the amount of space you'll have (seems like I'd end up smearing more of it around and having it take me twice as long ? )

View attachment 147456


Last item, here's my "test area". Added some screw holes, and tested this area. Those screws and the gasket seem like they are really solid. More to follow, at a later time, as long as I can recover enough to post.

View attachment 147457

It is very easy to clean up. not gooey like caulk.

 

[Babin Farms]

No offence but IMO you are over thinking this unless I'm missing something. My tray has a few stripped out screws and is all I do install the tray, put all of the screws in and run a bead of bathroom sealant around the edge to seal it up. There should be no pressure on this area and the sealant has enough flex in it that even if you have multiple stripped out screw holes the sealant holds the tray in place. I'm to the point that I'm in there at the begining and end of every season and am probably going to get some of the removeable caulk next time.

Amazon.com: Dap 18354 Seal 'N Peel Removable Caulk, 10.1-Ounce : Industrial & Scientific

Buy Dap 18354 Seal 'N Peel Removable Caulk, 10.1-Ounce: Adhesive Caulk - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases

www.amazon.com

 

[drewkaree]

No offence but IMO you are over thinking this unless I'm missing something. My tray has a few stripped out screws and is all I do install the tray, put all of the screws in and run a bead of bathroom sealant around the edge to seal it up. There should be no pressure on this area and the sealant has enough flex in it that even if you have multiple stripped out screw holes the sealant holds the tray in place. I'm to the point that I'm in there at the begining and end of every season and am probably going to get some of the removeable caulk next time.

No offense taken at all, and you may be correct in me overthinking it.

I have had water coming in since I had the boat. My hope is that by using the gasket, I don't have to do this ever again. I luckily only had 2 stripped out screws, plenty of other posts elsewhere relating the same experience as you and I. I also think this is a Yamaha assembler's issue (or even their SOP), drilling a too-small hole and no countersink on the holes at all. The adhesion is going to be meh to meh+ unless you're using something stronger than "sealant", like 4200, which then makes it a PITA to remove. The removable caulk may be a great solution to this as well, I haven't used it enough to form an opinion one way or the other, other than I think the adhesion may be sketchy in this use.

They simply haven't used enough screws to adequately hold down a piece that's the size of this cleanout tray. Doubling the screw count is called for, IMO, so that you don't have to rely on the screws to hold so tightly, and the span between the screws is too far - the screws are doing at least a little of the holding, even after the sealant has cured.

I was looking for a solution that would allow me to not have to deal with sealant in this area every year. If this gasket doesn't work, that very well may happen anyway, as I'll be forced to remove it all and go with the sealant or something along the lines of what @motomandan suggests, but I have one other idea based on past efforts from others that I'll try first (bolts/washers/weld nuts). Worst that happens is that I'm out some of my time, and some materials, but if this works out, I won't have to touch this or worry about this and my water leaks around my cleanout tray will be solved and I will have a solution that is easy to remove and replace while accessing this area.

I look at it this way, I'm trying to overdo it so that it's easier in the future. If I waste my time now, hopefully the result is that I don't have to waste as much time or worry about having materials on hand to deal with this again. If it doesn't work out, I still have that to look forward to in the future. Really, I blame @2kwik4u and his water-dumping kid for sending him down this rabbit hole years ago. ? I'm willing to break a few eggs trying to make a better omelette.

 

[2kwik4u]

Really, I blame @2kwik4u and his water-dumping kid for sending him down this rabbit hole years ago. ?

Yea, but he's a cute kid Even if he did dump 2gal buckets on his head continuously for hours as a toddler



In thoughts related to this thread. I'm 100% the same way. I've spent more time than I care to admit putting in drains, capping drains, and chasing leaks. IMO. The water should stay on the OUTSIDE of the boat. Rainstorms, and toddlers with their water soaking antics be damned. Even if I have a Binford-6100 bilge pump to remove the water once it's in the boat, and a quad battery super double extra amazing backup system for it. The best efforts are in keeping the water on the outside to begin with.

Hell I even put drains from the rear swim platform into the cleanout area in an attempt to keep that water from getting into the bilge, or just sitting in the cup holder and soaking my beer coozie with warm lake water.

As this relates to the cleanout tray, I've been REALLY REALLY close to putting in aluminum "backing plates" on the inside of the permanent portion of the tray, then drilling/tapping those, and then putting an aluminum top plate with thru holes. That would allow me to specify the location and frequency of the screws holding that joint together, as well as place a soft gasket between the two to fend off some of the leakage from that area.

 

[drewkaree]

Yea, but he's a cute kid Even if he did dump 2gal buckets on his head continuously for hours as a toddler

Hiding behind the cuteness, have you no shame sir? ?

As this relates to the cleanout tray, I've been REALLY REALLY close to putting in aluminum "backing plates" on the inside of the permanent portion of the tray, then drilling/tapping those, and then putting an aluminum top plate with thru holes. That would allow me to specify the location and frequency of the screws holding that joint together, as well as place a soft gasket between the two to fend off some of the leakage from that area.

Look for those "weld nuts", several on Amazon. I think you should be able to suss out how to implement them. Just got a notification that they hit my doorstep a few minutes ago, and the wife brought them in. wanted to see how they look, before I go and get more screws, or decide to make the change over to bolts/washers/4200/5200/weld nuts.

Have your screws held since you tried to tackle this problem?

 

[Julian]

I took the @Babin Farms route and just caulked it once I was done. Grabbed this screen shot from the video I am putting together for my bilge addition mod.

 

[HangOutdoors]

I caulked mine off, as per the pictures at the start of this thread. It worked fine. I guess I has hoping for something that I wouldn't have to spend so much time removing every time I have to pull the hatch to do something in there, which shouldn't be a lot. When I removed the hatch now while doing tabs and transducer and vacuuming out the tons of crap they left in there from the factory, the silicone peeled off the hatch easy. Getting it off the gelcoat took hours and I still have some more to do. I ordered some DeBond which should be here on Thursday to get the thin film residue of it off.

I used 3M Marine Silicone. Maybe a different product would of been better.

 

[2kwik4u]

Hiding behind the cuteness, have you no shame sir? ?

Nope, no shame at all. Kids beat it out of me

Have your screws held since you tried to tackle this problem?

I would say a solid 50% of the screws in mine are stripped and are there just to keep the leaks to a minimum (plug the hole). Last time I was in there I put the cover in, put white kitchen silicone under each screw head and turned them in by hand, then siliconed the edges of the cover in place. It "kinda" doesn't leak now. I've also removed the access ports and siliconed underneath them to keep leaks from that interface at bay.

I've honestly somewhat given up on that portion of my leaks since my boat is currently in a state of actively pumping water in the boat above ~6k rpm or so. It's hot water so I know it's been through the engine. I've had everything apart and back together twice in the exhaust and can NOT find the leak. I just keep a spare bilge pump on hand, and eye on the water level. It's more nuisance than anything.

 

[motomandan]

If they are not stainless steel it will be a nightmare!

 

[zipper]

When I dealt with the stripped out holes, I used 5200 to fill in the holes, leveled smooth around the holes let harden and then I redrilled the hole. I reinstalled the s.s. screws, tightened them with a bead of silicone. I did not have any epoxy resin to fill the holes at the time.

 

[drewkaree]

When I dealt with the stripped out holes, I used 5200 to fill in the holes, leveled smooth around the holes let harden and then I redrilled the hole. I reinstalled the s.s. screws, tightened them with a bead of silicone. I did not have any epoxy resin to fill the holes at the time.

Regular, or fast cure? Right now, Amazon is really letting me down with their shipping, so I may just have another week to wait for regular 5200 to cure. The neighbor has some "stainless steel epoxy putty" coming from his son-in-law who works at a foundry, but I don't think that'll stick to the fiberglass at all. I got some Loctite Repair Putty since it cures white, but I also bought some epoxy at the same time so I'm sorted for whichever way I decide to go. Gonna test a pinch of the Loctite stuff since it'll be testable in an hour.

What I thought were my weld nuts turned out to be a shipping mistake by Amazon. They instead sent me a 6-flute 13.5mm chucking reamer. The universe is telling me to try the screws first, and fall back to the bolts later. The weld nuts (as well as adding additional screws) were an idea from @Frank Marshall from this post in this thread about the same issues. Seems like the threads stripping out will happen to me as well. Screws are smaller than the 1/4"x20 bolts I will need, so this will work for this weekend, at the very least. Clearance hole for my screws is already 3/16", and IIRC, there's plenty of room to open them up to accomodate the bolts. The gasket idea was from @gmtech16450yz from this post in this thread, although I wanted something more substantial than the speed nuts that he used.

@HangOutdoors here's a pic of the weld nuts. I would run the bolts through a washer, through the holes drilled in the cleanout tray, through the deck, and into the weld nut. The weld nut would have some 5200 on the red spot, either front side or back side, depending on how the nut looks when I get it..



Hold the weld nut in place, tighten everything up, and the bolt would hold the weld nut to the underside of the decking while the 5200 cures. There looks to be a "collar" of some sort around the bolt hole, and I would probably use some vaseline or something on the bolt just in case some 5200 oozed over to the bolt. When cured, I'd have 24 individual spots to run the bolts through, and provide some slight pressure to compress the gasket to the deck, similar to @2kwik4u and his aluminum plate idea to keep the whole area tight to the deck.

 

[HangOutdoors]

@drewkaree A lot of detailed info there..... You are making my head spin... Would be easier for me to just just tow the boat to your house and help get it done

 

[drewkaree]

@drewkaree A lot of detailed info there..... You are making my head spin... Would be easier for me to just just tow the boat to your house and help get it done

Take a look at those two other threads. I'm combining @Frank Marshall's idea of extra screws and weld nuts underneath and @gmtech16450yz's ideas of the gasket, and bolt/washer/nut.

I may be using weld nuts after all. Grainger has a location close by with enough in stainless for my needs.