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I think the number of drownings on boats could have been reduced 80% if those folks had been wearing PFD’s. Also there are a number of deaths related to not wearing an engine cutoff lanyard. Point is, the manual makes it clear that those devices should be used by all occupants, yet somehow those incidents are just tragic accidents….
This attorney is your typical ambulance chaser and is looking to exploit a family’s grief for his own benefit… his statement about the family wanting answers is total bullshit.
The problem with CO poisoning is that it alone can kill you. Falling off the boat and drowning can certainly accelerate death, but just sitting and breathing CO alone will kill you. It will do it slowly and stealthily too. The only treatment once you've got too much CO binding to your hemoglobin is to get to a hospital ASAP, and ideally get hyperbaric oxygen treatment.
I feel for the young lady’s parents but she contributed to her own exposure plus jumping in without a vest, come on, it’s time to talk about her acts and omissions.
I let adults sit on the swim deck when we are at trolling / no wake speeds sometimes but they always have to wear a life vest and I talk to them about the risks first every time, even if they have heard it from me before.
The only thing that this new incident is going to change for me is now I plan to buy and install a small CO alarm on the swim deck.
Not sure that the girl should have known that she was breathing CO...and after she did, it's hard to hold her accountable for much of anything.
I certainly don't assume that my passengers know not to sit on the swim platform when the engines are running in spite of the fact that it's placarded. It's my boat and my responsibility. The only one who I hold accountable is the captain.
Regarding trolling speeds, that's potentially worse from a CO perspective than higher speeds, but it's illegal in any case and the coast guard will stop you if they see it regardless of how fast you are going.
Not sure that the girl should have known that she was breathing CO...and after she did, it's hard to hold her accountable for much of anything.
I certainly don't assume that my passengers know not to sit on the swim platform when the engines are running in spite of the fact that it's placarded. It's my boat and my responsibility. The only one who I hold accountable is the captain.
Regarding trolling speeds, that's potentially worse from a CO perspective than higher speeds, but it's illegal in any case and the coast guard will stop you if they see it regardless of how fast you are going.
I agree the captain is ultimately responsible for the safety of his crew / passengers but there are limits to that responsibility. For instance, the captain can’t control the failure to use common sense by anyone or everyone onboard.
She is accountable for jumping in without a vest, even as a life long swimmer.
IMHO, as a non practicing but licensed attorney, yamaha is being sued primarily because they have the deepest pockets. I noticed in the part of the story I read and watched there was no mention of bringing the captain or boat owner to court.
if anyone lets others sit on the swim deck when the engines are rinnkngor does so themselves they should do so with full knowledge of the risks / consequences involved. This includes being ticketed and possibly dying.
The mothers of young children I bring aboard won’t let there kids sit on the swim deck while underway but most adults have no problem with it. In fact these two guys said was the most memorable part of boating they have ever done with me or anyone, they are lifetime boaters and assumed the risks after I disclosed them.
I agree the captain is ultimately responsible for the safety of his crew / passengers but there are limits to that responsibility. For instance, the captain can’t control the failure to use common sense by anyone or everyone onboard.
She is accountable for jumping in without a vest, even as a life long swimmer.
I wouldn't expect that she would know that she was exposed to CO. One effect of CO exposure is irrational behavior, so I'm not sure how accountable someone is under that circumstance.
In any case, I certainly agree that Yamaha isn't accountable.
@Ronnie Why bring up a 3 year old thread/article? Just to stir the pot? Take your L and admit you're wrong (or at the absolute very least you're in the vast minority) about this.
I was just talking about this yesterday with a few folks, and that was gonna be my solution as well. Looks supremely portable, so I can test it in multiple locations, but at that price, I may very well get a second one.
Not sure how your blower fans are set up, but the pipe for mine comes out directly behind the swim deck seats. If your boat is set up the same, in your pics, that would put an outlet directly behind your two passengers. The likelihood of that being CO pumped out via that pipe doesn't seem like it'd be possible, but the fact that it IS a direct opening to the engine compartment and any exhaust components could be allowing CO to be drawn up that pipe would be something I'd show anyone you allow back there. Add it to your talk with them. I disagree with your stance on swim platform riders, but you seem comfortable with that, and you're the one operating the boat, so perhaps adding something that you can visibly show them as a potential risk enhancer might help put a stop to any future daredevils on your boat.
I'm wondering about the accuracy of the one I linked to, since the vendor name is one of those hammer-the-keyboard names they create. Does anyone have any info as to how to test these, other than the obvious "stick it by the tailpipe of your car and see if it goes off" method? Something more accurately measurable?
@Ronnie Why bring up a 3 year old thread/article? Just to stir the pot? Take your L and admit you're wrong (or at the absolute very least you're in the vast minority) about this.
That stated, I’m don’t post as if I am competing for anything so taking an L or a W would be inapplicable. I’m just sharing my opinion on a subject, it doesn’t matter too me if I’m in the minority or majority but I’m open to changing my position if there is what I consider to be good reasons to do so. One girl sitting where she isn’t supposed to sit, probably because she wasn’t warned, then jumping in the water without a life vest isn’t enough for me to keep consenting adults from sitting on my swim deck while at no wake speeds.
If time permits I will they and look up the disposition of this case. I think it probably settled for an undisclosed amount from all co defendants (likely yamaha and the boats owner/operator, possibly others in the sales and marketing chain).
I also just ordered the CO alarm referenced above.
I was just talking about this yesterday with a few folks, and that was gonna be my solution as well. Looks supremely portable, so I can test it in multiple locations, but at that price, I may very well get a second one.
Not sure how your blower fans are set up, but the pipe for mine comes out directly behind the swim deck seats. If your boat is set up the same, in your pics, that would put an outlet directly behind your two passengers. The likelihood of that being CO pumped out via that pipe doesn't seem like it'd be possible, but the fact that it IS a direct opening to the engine compartment and any exhaust components could be allowing CO to be drawn up that pipe would be something I'd show anyone you allow back there. Add it to your talk with them. I disagree with your stance on swim platform riders, but you seem comfortable with that, and you're the one operating the boat, so perhaps adding something that you can visibly show them as a potential risk enhancer might help put a stop to any future daredevils on your boat.
I'm wondering about the accuracy of the one I linked to, since the vendor name is one of those hammer-the-keyboard names they create. Does anyone have any info as to how to test these, other than the obvious "stick it by the tailpipe of your car and see if it goes off" method? Something more accurately measurable?
Thanks for the follow up. My swim deck is set up the same way that is it takes in cold air from one side and expels hot air on the other, I think the port side, my wife was sitting there once with the engines off but the fan on and asked me to turn off the heater, it took me a few seconds to figure out what she meant. Maybe placing the CO alarm on the other, intake side, would be better than the middle?
I sew a lot of different CO alarms on Amazon and even the one used in the news story for about $35. I think I’m going more for form not function on this. Why spend more (one costs $115) on something that so far (25 years plus) hasn’t been an issue.
now I’m wondering why I never see stories like this involving jet skis/ personal water craft.
I was just talking about this yesterday with a few folks, and that was gonna be my solution as well. Looks supremely portable, so I can test it in multiple locations, but at that price, I may very well get a second one.
Not sure how your blower fans are set up, but the pipe for mine comes out directly behind the swim deck seats. If your boat is set up the same, in your pics, that would put an outlet directly behind your two passengers. The likelihood of that being CO pumped out via that pipe doesn't seem like it'd be possible, but the fact that it IS a direct opening to the engine compartment and any exhaust components could be allowing CO to be drawn up that pipe would be something I'd show anyone you allow back there. Add it to your talk with them. I disagree with your stance on swim platform riders, but you seem comfortable with that, and you're the one operating the boat, so perhaps adding something that you can visibly show them as a potential risk enhancer might help put a stop to any future daredevils on your boat.
I'm wondering about the accuracy of the one I linked to, since the vendor name is one of those hammer-the-keyboard names they create. Does anyone have any info as to how to test these, other than the obvious "stick it by the tailpipe of your car and see if it goes off" method? Something more accurately measurable?
“Bad information is far worse than no information“
Robert P Wild JR.
About the only way I can think of to test them would be to test it against one of the household Kidde brand CO detectors. Although a quick search did not reveal at what level the alarm starts beeping I’m going to assume it’s above 50 ppm? Carbon Monoxide (CO) FAQs | Kidde The only reference I see is that it will beep at a “dangerous” level.
I believe I asserted earlier on in this thread about the news organization using a CO meter that had no test / calibration date. And how far from the source were they really testing it at? I can tell you from a person who worked in confined spaces that if your air monitoring device was out of test date it was not to be used or trusted.
Even the consumer safety org doesn’t have alarm points listed for CO alarms but does say that exposure by healthy adults for prolonged periods of less than 70 ppm will not experience symptoms. Except heart patients who may experience an increase in chest pain. Carbon Monoxide Fact Sheet
Common sense rules the day….Be aware the danger exists, If you do a lot of slow cruising a portable CO detector would be a good idea, as will keeping people away from swim deck. If there is a breeze coming from behind and it’s blowing past boat increase speed if possible, don’t run the boat while anchored if there is insufficient wind to blow the CO away or if people are swimming behind the boat, if your house battery is low then turn off the stereo, anchor bow into the wind.
CO is slightly lighter than air, it is absorbed 300% faster than 02 and prevents the blood cells from absorbing 02, that’s how it injures or kills you.
1. there is more free flowing air around a Waverunner, I would assume there may be a vortex of exhaust at the back of our boats at slow speeds similar to the backside of an SUV that causes the back window to collect dirt and grime.
2. they are usually very difficult to drive slow, and just like moss, it won't gather on a rolling stone
3. the exhaust is under water until the pwc is on plane and at that time, they are driving away from it too quickly to cause an issue.
1. there is more free flowing air around a Waverunner, I would assume there may be a vortex of exhaust at the back of our boats at slow speeds similar to the backside of an SUV that causes the back window to collect dirt and grime.
2. they are usually very difficult to drive slow, and just like moss, it won't gather on a rolling stone
3. the exhaust is under water until the pwc is on plane and at that time, they are driving away from it too quickly to cause an issue.
Exactly, its called the station wagon effect....the area behind the boat swirls exhaust gas around, and the people back there breath it in. The CO then binds to your hemoglobin and once you have enough in your system you pass out.
The specifics in the article about how she died are pretty slim "she went into the water for a dip and never resurfaced." That is pretty damn vague. More likely is she was on the back and passed out, and rolled into the water while no one was watching. The vagueness is because no one is going to admit...no one was paying attention.
Yamaha is partly at fault because they make the stern an inviting place to SIT, with cushions and cupholders. So I'd go after them also, along with the owner and "captain" of the vessel.
Sitting back there is risky. I don't allow my passengers to sit back there while the boat is underway. I don't want a ticket, and I don't want the risk of hurting someone. Its probably a low risk (depending on how fast you are going....the slower you go, the riskier it is) - but its just not one I need to add to our boat trips. As the captain I own that risk. I can tell adults - no you can't sit back there.
